Probation

I'm sorry you're dealing with that right now. We all know that feeling of getting a bad letter from the BRN. Hang in there. I promise, it gets better. The BRN does not determine your livelihood and happiness in life. Please feel free to email me. We also have a group on facebook. My email is [email protected]. 

@Nurse1980 I’m so sorry you’re going through this, but let me just say, you have landed on the right group of nurses. We have all bonded and if you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to ask. We will try and help you navigate through this process as best as possible! 

I have an attorney, and I’m terrified.  I can’t afford to do an alternative to discipline program.  I appreciate you helping me. I have so many questions 

How do I get in the group on facebook ? 

@Nurse1980 Hang in there. Just FYI, if you do end up receiving Probation, it will be costly just like Diversion. It may not be AS expensive, but you will have to do monthly drug testing ($360-$500 avg/mo), nurse support groups every week ($30-$100/mo). You have to find a doctor approved by the board to do a physical/mental health evaluation, which can be $500-$2000, if you're on Psychotropic meds, you have to spend $100-$200 every 3 months to have that initial physician you saw sign off on them and then send evaluations of your current prescriptions to the Board. If that doc recommends therapy for you in their initial evaluation, you have to do that as much as they deem necessary and the cost of that can vary. Quarterly evaluations also have to be done for that until you no longer require therapy. I'm not trying to stress you out but if you do receive probation, these are some of the potential costs. Now, many folks in our group DO NOT have to do therapy, nor are they on psychotropic meds, but I personally did and I know others who have had to as well. I am grateful for it because I have found it helpful, but it will be nice to be done with the mandatory requirement that my Psychiatrist deemed necessary. One less thing to do for the Board. 

Diversion is rumored to be more expensive but I'm not sure how much more it is than Probation. Just know that you can go on SDI Disability while you're going through it. This is something that may help with costs if you go that route. Diversion is meant for folks with substance abuse issues. If you feel that you truly do not have a problem, then I don't recommend it. However, in hindsight, I regret not choosing it so that my record would be clean once completed. It is not that way for Probation (although one of our biggest advocates in the group, Ms. @Bianca0206 is  striving to get this changed!!).  My arrest did not result in conviction or charges so I did not think I would get probation; especially for something that had nothing to do with the workplace. I had the opportunity to do Diversion and did not because I listened to a lawyer that was wrong. Lawyers tend to be against it; likely because (my opinion) 1: They want to make money off of fighting for you and 2: They know they may be able to get you something far less punitive, like a letter of reprimand. Your lawyer may be able to get you a letter of reprimand. That would be the best case scenario (aside from getting the whole thing dismissed, which is extremely rare). As far as the facebook group goes, @ESRN35 or @Bianca0206 may be able to help you out! ?

Again, hang in there. I promise it gets better!

I am on vyvanse for adhd and cannot practice without it.  I have documentation proving I have tried other non stimulants that failed.  I cannot practice safely without.  No diversion and not for narcotics. Only alcohol.   Not yet on probation, my lawyer is gathering evidence and my relapse that night in February, when I clearly was not in my right mind, was thought to be due to my new medicine that I had started 7 days prior that has known side effects for dangerous impulses and mental health changes. 

Diversion only cost 25 dollars a month. In Diversion you don’t have to pay to have a physical or mental health exam. The mental health exam is included. I drug test about once a week but I hear it decreases the longer you are in the program. The probation people in my group attend less AA/NA meetings than the Diversion people. Luckily, I have great insurance that paid for my rehab that was required for Diversion. Otherwise, I don’t think the cost is much different between the two.

On 6/3/2021 at 8:45 PM, LMRN2003 said:

@Nurse1980 Hang in there. Just FYI, if you do end up receiving Probation, it will be costly just like Diversion. It may not be AS expensive, but you will have to do monthly drug testing ($360-$500 avg/mo), nurse support groups every week ($30-$100/mo). You have to find a doctor approved by the board to do a physical/mental health evaluation, which can be $500-$2000, if you're on Psychotropic meds, you have to spend $100-$200 every 3 months to have that initial physician you saw sign off on them and then send evaluations of your current prescriptions to the Board. If that doc recommends therapy for you in their initial evaluation, you have to do that as much as they deem necessary and the cost of that can vary. Quarterly evaluations also have to be done for that until you no longer require therapy. I'm not trying to stress you out but if you do receive probation, these are some of the potential costs. Now, many folks in our group DO NOT have to do therapy, nor are they on psychotropic meds, but I personally did and I know others who have had to as well. I am grateful for it because I have found it helpful, but it will be nice to be done with the mandatory requirement that my Psychiatrist deemed necessary. One less thing to do for the Board. 

Diversion is rumored to be more expensive but I'm not sure how much more it is than Probation. Just know that you can go on SDI Disability while you're going through it. This is something that may help with costs if you go that route. Diversion is meant for folks with substance abuse issues. If you feel that you truly do not have a problem, then I don't recommend it. However, in hindsight, I regret not choosing it so that my record would be clean once completed. It is not that way for Probation (although one of our biggest advocates in the group, Ms. @Bianca0206 is  striving to get this changed!!).  My arrest did not result in conviction or charges so I did not think I would get probation; especially for something that had nothing to do with the workplace. I had the opportunity to do Diversion and did not because I listened to a lawyer that was wrong. Lawyers tend to be against it; likely because (my opinion) 1: They want to make money off of fighting for you and 2: They know they may be able to get you something far less punitive, like a letter of reprimand. Your lawyer may be able to get you a letter of reprimand. That would be the best case scenario (aside from getting the whole thing dismissed, which is extremely rare). As far as the facebook group goes, @ESRN35 or @Bianca0206 may be able to help you out! ?

Again, hang in there. I promise it gets better!

On 6/4/2021 at 7:23 AM, Nurse1980 said:

I am on vyvanse for adhd and cannot practice without it.  I have documentation proving I have tried other non stimulants that failed.  I cannot practice safely without.  No diversion and not for narcotics. Only alcohol.   Not yet on probation, my lawyer is gathering evidence and my relapse that night in February, when I clearly was not in my right mind, was thought to be due to my new medicine that I had started 7 days prior that has known side effects for dangerous impulses and mental health changes. 

In Diversion you can not be on stimulants. They made me start taking Straterra. I would not tell them you are unsafe to practice without Vyvanse because they might actually deem you as unsafe to practice. I don’t know what is allowed on probation but in Diversion it’s on the banned list. Best of luck to you. You will get through this!

@Sanfranjflo If you're tested 1/week, wouldn't that be about $360-$440/ month just in testing fees? I have a friend who went through Diversion and told me that the drug testing is about that frequency you mentioned, which is very similar to Probation frequency, so the costs should be about the same. 

I know that FS Solutions also charges Diversion RNs the after hours fees (like if you test on the weekend or at night) and do not charge these fees to Probationary RNs (told to me by FS Solutions employee). Not sure how many AA meetings you have but you are correct that the frequency for Probation is not too high. I have not heard of anyone having more than 1/week minimum. 

Our state, WV, has two options.  WV restore, which is an alternative to discipline program that is 5 years and is extremely costly and nothing goes on your license.  I chose to forego that option when I self reported the first time in September, so that isn’t an option.  When I had my break down in February, and is what I was reported for, (I am now suspended) and waiting for my lawyer to try to get probation.  Which could range from 1-5 years long. It will be disciplinary through the board and show up on my license.  
Im also now on the national practitioners data bank.  That’s apparently permanent.  I’ve never been in trouble for diversion, this was alcohol, so we don’t have the different options like you guys do.  Does anyone else have these options like we do here in WV? 

Also, how do you ever get a job being on the black list. (National practitioner data base).  Does the discipline stay on license forever 

@Nurse1980 The 2 options you just named sound very similar to what we have in CA. "Diversion" is an alternative to discipline program and if you successfully complete it, your license is clean. Many lawyers recommend against it but I was offered it and wish I would have accepted because it would have resulted in the same exact thing I'm doing now on probation. It can be up to 5 years (just like probation), but is typically 3 (just like probation). Not everyone is offered Diversion. Seems like ppl that are convicted of DUIs and other stuff don't seem to be offered it. Nurses that divert meds are often offered it. 

As far as the National Practitioner Data Bank goes, you are able to write a statement, which is meant to be your side of the story. I did this for mine. You can also dispute it in attempt to try and have it removed. I plan on doing this once my arrest is sealed. I was never convicted of anything. The arrest did not even get sent to the District Attorney (because it was so stupid). My arrest was ridiculous (my husband was accidentally scratched when I was trying to grab his phone while he was calling my mom in attempt to make me mad) and I was arrested for DV. Stupidest thing I've ever heard of. I should not have been arrested. I truly believe this is all about money and quotas. The cops should have made a judgment call and not have arrested me. I think that with DV CA policies, though, they may not have had a choice, which is insane. This entire situation cost my family thousands and was not helpful for anyone. Even in the worst case scenario, if my husband and I separated/divorced, this result was not helpful. It has made it more difficult for me to find a job, placed a financial burden on me, which, in turn, affects my kids. My husband was very angry that day but still did but want to press any charges. At all. Cops have way too much power. 

To answer your question about getting a job, yes, it is more difficult. Once you are no longer on probation, though, it is definitely easier. You may have to explain your situation but may not have to as much as you think. It is mostly an issue while you are being disciplined. 

My situation with the cops was the opposite.  I did not get a DUI.  My husband helped them search the car!  He was cooperative and I was already on my way to the hospital. I didn’t damage any property.  Only my own car.  They didn’t want to do the paperwork and do an arrest, plus the only alcohol that was found was in my thermos which was more than half full which cooborates my story of only having 4 shots.  I started a new medication a week prior that and this topiramate, and I had not drank a drop of alcohol since September when I self reported for drinking during covid.  I was impulsive, not myself, an emotional mess, and these 4 shots made me a complete nightmare.  I haven’t drank since.   But since I drove drunk on my lunch hour, and called my supervisor, that’s how I got reported to the board.   I resigned the next day. I wasn’t reported from my job until 2 months later after I started a new job.   My license was summarily suspended.   So luckily, my job will probably take me back, but my lawyer says we have a fight on our hands   
I accept responsibility, and I know probation is coming, but I don’t know what all to expect.   Every state is different  

 I’m in a step study, AA, take natrexone injections, celebrate recovery, counseling etc and have been doing so on my own without the board.   I’ve been doing that since September.  Added the naltrexone injections and increased frequencies of meetings and my step study after the February incident.  I have done drug screens when my lawyer requests randomly to help my case, including ETOH.   So I am doing everything that I possibly can to fix this.   Did I mess up?   Absolutely.  Do I deserve to be punished for my actions?   Yes.   Should nurses be in a one size fits all program or probation agreement? NO!   Should nurses be stressed out and go bankrupt trying to recover from addiction or substance abuse, or whatever mistake or problem they have? No!   Things need to change and I understand that a 5 year program is fitting for some, but not all.  It should be tailored to the nurse.  I know so many nurses that I have met who have relapsed and lost everything they own because of these programs.   The nursing board should be there to protect the public, yes, but they need to protect their nurses too!   There has to be a better way. 
 

I still don’t have a decision from the board yet, and it will be a couple months at least because my lawyer has to get with their attorney and present evidence.  Which their is a lot more to the story than what I’m posting on here that will help my case.  I am almost done with nurse practitioner school and I am sitting out this semester because of my suspension but can return once I am on monitoring.  

in probation, am I looking at going bankrupt?   
also, I hear that discipline is visible for life.