Nurses, perception difference and education

I agree with you on not throwing away personal belongings but if the individual in question is an alcoholic, he/she will drink the entire bottle within a day or two and use the money to purchase more of it. I think they would be consumed by the addiction and ignore their need for the medications you described.

I doubt giving the bottle back (it's their belonging anyway!) will result in them being compliant with their medications. And if they are compliant initially, how long does it last before they end at the hospital's revolving door?

Actually no - many of our p'ts like this do manage to take their meds a lot of the time.

We are not going to be able to fix many of them. But what we can do is try to maintain their delicate balance to keep them functioning and out of the hospital. It's what happens in the short term that will determine whether he comes back in two days

To answer your question 'how long does it last before they end at the hospital's revolving door'?

Likely we see him again after two months - instead of two days.

I'm trying to understand your POV here.

People who have more education can and do vehemently disagree with each other. I'm not sure where you got the idea that educated people all have a common perspective. They have a similar knowledge base, yes, but conclusions drawn on complicated situations are not always the same.

In other words, two very smart people can be presented the same problem and can come up with two different solutions. It happens all the time, in every industry and profession. This phenomenon is the foundation for innovation and creativity, and it's influenced by styles, personalities, beliefs, and experience. And, yes, knowledge base, of course, but it's also more than that.

I think this phenomenon can elevate a profession, not lower it.

What she said...........

"When we state the degree of analytical endeavor we pay to any particular nursing problem is dependent on our nursing styles, personalities and beliefs .... then I believe we have lost the plot as a profession."

Well, then, count me out as a nursing professional. Show me any other "profession" that does not take individual judgment into account and expects its professionals to act according to a pre-planned algorithm or paradigm without use of intellect or experiential judgment and I will show you a non-professional profession.

Ironically, while you appear to be advocating higher education for the nursing profession, it seems to me that you are inadvertently advocating a structure that disallows nursing judgment.

And (gasp) I'm an ADN-prepared RN.

I'm trying to understand your POV here.

People who have more education can and do vehemently disagree with each other. I'm not sure where you got the idea that educated people all have a common perspective. They have a similar knowledge base, yes, but conclusions drawn on complicated situations are not always the same.

In other words, two very smart people can be presented the same problem and can come up with two different solutions. It happens all the time, in every industry and profession. This phenomenon is the foundation for innovation and creativity, and it's influenced by styles, personalities, beliefs, and experience. And, yes, knowledge base, of course, but it's also more than that.

I think this phenomenon can elevate a profession, not lower it.

Agree

However that was not what I was referring to.

My initial post was about differences of perception due to nurse educational differences and was making the argument that a variation of generic professional skill (relating specifically to how we handle information) results in differences that we don't need

" Show me any other "profession" that does not take individual judgment into account and expects its professionals to act according to a pre-planned algorithm or paradigm without use of intellect or experiential judgment and I will show you a non-professional profession.

Ironically, while you appear to be advocating higher education for the nursing profession, it seems to me that you are inadvertently advocating a structure that disallows nursing judgment.

.

Yes you are quite correct ... agree

Intellect is a big part of it.

Perception relates to intellect

The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect.

Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

Yes you are quite correct ... agree

Intellect is a big part of it.

Perception relates to intellect

The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect.

Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

As long as their intellect agrees with your perception (per your given example)?

As long as their intellect agrees with your perception (per your given example)?

Not at all

As long as their perception originates from the same playing field

And so we come back to the beginning argument: All equally-educated nurses will/should have the same approach to any given patient-care issue, due to the fact that his/her intellect/perception originates from an equivalent education to alll of his/her peers.

DIS agree

Well, I would think as an "educated" nurse, you would realize the negative effects of alcoholism, which are cocommittent with heart disease, liver disease, bleeding disorders and diabetes.

As an educated nurse, throwing out the alchol or not does not matter. Educating the patient about the effects of alcoholism and finding recovery resources are more important than that issue.

Alcoholism is just as bad as not affording your metformin, and is actually the cause of not being able to obtain the metformin in your example and that is the issue that needs to be addressed.

The point is, if the pt is truly an alcoholic and will buy alcohol over medications, by saving his alcohol, you are really only buying him a few days of time. The nature of the disease will eliminate all health care priorites as the need for alcohol increases.

And so we come back to the beginning argument: All equally-educated nurses will/should have the same approach to any given patient-care issue, due to the fact that his/her intellect/perception originates from an equivalent education to alll of his/her peers.

Similar playing field .... just like doctors, engineers etc.

I fail to see the issue with that. Works well for the others

Nothing wrong with more nurses attaining some basic generic professional skill as well as their professional nursing skill.

You know we have an issue when we receive a variety of response from new nurses regarding the difficulty of their state boards.

Hearing 'it was way too easy it was pathetic, I can't believe I went to university for this' is as bad as hearing 'oh my goodness, it was the most difficult thing I have ever done' ... both make me cringe.

Yes you are quite correct ... agree

Intellect is a big part of it.

Perception relates to intellect

The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect.

Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

In relation to your example, I don't think nursing education clearly addresses the proper nursing treatment for alcoholism, and I've been through both BSN and MSN. Even physicians don't properly address it based on their own personal bias and related to a lack of specific education in school.

In your example, according to AA, neither nurse is acting properly. According to AA, one should not manipulate the alcoholic in order to stop drinking. Therefore, you neither prohibit their drinking by throwing it away or do you "save" their alcohol for them by enabling them to drink. The nurse should remain neutral, this is a non factor for her except to provide education and treatment options once and then more often if the patient is open to it, or if a different opportunity for discussion exists. The patient should be allowed to "suffer" the negative consequences of their drinking, this includes health and financial consequences as they will only seek true treatment when they hit bottom.

I hope you will see the true issue here. Neither side that you presented is truly correct in the only medically effective method of treating addiciton.