Frustrated in BSN program

So all you do is do some research and write a paper. If you aren't learning anything, perhaps you should have done a little more research for that paper?

Well, I have a 4.0 so I guess I am doing ok...

Well, I have a 4.0 so I guess I am doing ok...

For me that's the issue. I expected my BSN program to be harder, since it's higher on the academic food chain. If I had to rank my three programs, I'd say my PN program was by far the hardest and my proudest accomplishment. I am now really curious if I just attended an exceptionally difficult PN and ASN program and an way BSN program?

The Colorado community college system requires all students to have a pathophysiology course as a coreq (even if they track out and become an LPN). Consequently, the state universities do not include a patho class in their RN-BSN programs. Just thought I'd throw that out there for those that are interested.

OP, I hope your classes get better. I would be pretty frustrated if I were in your shoes.

For me that's the issue. I expected my BSN program to be harder, since it's higher on the academic food chain. If I had to rank my three programs, I'd say my PN program was by far the hardest and my proudest accomplishment.

Yes... I expected the BSN to be applicable to nursing and to direct patient care but instead they have us do all this leadership, research and writing APA papers while no one in my class has even been a nurse for one day. How are we supposed to know how to lead and manage a team of nurses or implement evidence based interventions when we have not even been a nurse for one day???? but I know other nurses who are now seeking their BSN after having been a nurse for a while and they say the same, that it is mostly busy silly work that does not enhance their knowledge base...

I want some of what these educator-people are drinking

I always knew the LPN/LVN schools were tough. Every bridge LPN-RN in our program agreed. They worked 4-5 days a week, and schooled 5 days a week, and Exams were every Friday. No thanks. I wouldn't have survived that, and if I did, I would be at that level still because of academic vs. work burn-out. Not to mention, I had to work at least part-time, 3 semesters I worked full time (36hrs Baylor Nights). There wouldn't have been a chance that I could have swung that!!

I have always been told (by school administrators/staff) that if I go to grad school it will be easier because I have a knowledge base/bank to pull from.

So, I don't think it's any big surprise that people find their LPN courses or ADN courses harder in the cases where they go back to further their education.

An ADN-BSN program is not the same program nor is it supposed to be the same program as a traditional BSN route.

Why the assumption that because there isn't a specific course title that subject matter is not being taught?

Who assumed that?

I wonder why there's the assumption that just because you're a nurse then that means you can't possibly learn anything from a 5 month (?) in depth course on ANY given subject even if it was "covered" in your program.

I hope I never get to the point where I think I know everything and can no longer benefit from education.

Yes... I expected the BSN to be applicable to nursing and to direct patient care but instead they have us do all this leadership, research and writing APA papers while no one in my class has even been a nurse for one day. How are we supposed to know how to lead and manage a team of nurses or implement evidence based interventions when we have not even been a nurse for one day???? but I know other nurses who are now seeking their BSN after having been a nurse for a while and they say the same, that it is mostly busy silly work that does not enhance their knowledge base...

I want some of what these educator-people are drinking

My last preceptor mentioned all the papers she had to write in her ADN-BSN program and was surprised when I told her I didn't have to write any papers. The difference? I did all of my "paper writing" when I got my first bachelor's degree and was now learning the "nursing stuff," and she learned all of the nursing stuff in her ADN program and was now doing all the paper writing.

In the end, both of our BSN's are practically the same, but we learned different things at different times. ADN-BSN and traditional BSN or ABSN are not the same programs for a reason.

Who assumed that?

I wonder why there's the assumption that just because you're a nurse then that means you can't possibly learn anything from a 5 month (?) in depth course on ANY given subject even if it was "covered" in your program.

I hope I never get to the point where I think I know everything and can no longer benefit from education.

Who is assuming that? I can play this game too.

Who is assuming that? I can play this game too.

If you read the post from the beginning, you would see that my ..what should have been a simple statement....was "Are you taking pathophysiology yet? I don't see how learning the disease process wouldn't help a hospital nurse."

That is not quite the same as assuming that the subject matter isn't covered. It IS assuming that anyone can learn something from a course devoted to pathophysiology (or any other COURSE they haven't taken) that they don't already know.

Just because someone is a cardiac nurse and cardiac rhythms were "covered" already doesn't mean there isn't a TON he/she could learn by taking a class devoted to reading strips.

If you read the post from the beginning, you would see that my ..what should have been a simple statement....was "Are you taking pathophysiology yet? I don't see how learning the disease process wouldn't help a hospital nurse."

That is not quite the same as assuming that the subject matter isn't covered. It IS assuming that anyone can learn something from a course devoted to pathophysiology (or any other COURSE they haven't taken) that they don't already know.

Just because someone is a cardiac nurse and cardiac rhythms were "covered" already doesn't mean there isn't a TON he/she could learn by taking a class devoted to reading strips.

Who argued otherwise? No one is saying that additional education is invalid or that nothing is gained by taking a formal class in a subject that forms the basis of a good nursing education. I think many of us took issue with your idea that ASNs aren't taught pathophys. Once again, in my experience, my formal class has been a review and reinforcement of concepts I covered a couple of years ago. Worthwhile? Yes. Groundbreaking and practice altering? I'm not sure.

Besides, patho is probably the most nursing related of the classes required in an RN-BSN program. My entire first year (I'm going part time) has been anything but difficult, full of courses that again, while interesting, didn't contain much of anything that wasn't either covered in my previous education or learned simply by being in the work force for the last 15 years. I realize that this degree simply exists as a stepping stone to future education; that's the reason I'm doing it, but it's a disappointment to me that it hasn't been more challenging.

Back to the OP--if a BSN is required to get a job in your area, do it. You've got the hard part completed by already being an RN. Keep your eye on your ultimate goal. I also agree with getting out of your program if it's overly expensive. Have you looked into any state schools? They may be cheaper.

I took a specific course entitled "Pathophysiology". I also took all the other courses nurses take.

It wasn't the same and they are NOT equivalent. I've found a formal Patho class of immense use and help as a nurse, but I am new. I will let you know if this changes.

My electives did not include Botany or Sailing. They did include classes on diversity and ethics. These too have been helpful.

As for pharmacology, I had an ADN RN with ten years experience tell me the other day that she didn't know the difference between a beta-blocker and an ACE inhibitor. This nurse is, by the way, an excellent nurse who provides superb care to her patients, but I wonder how she would make the decision to give or hold that cardiac med in the case of elevated blood pressure with bradycardia. I have no doubt they covered cardiac medication classes in her ADN program, so I am not faulting the school she went to, or even ADN programs as a whole.

But I am faulting that minimalist mindset which tries to unilaterally determine which information is "useful" and which isn't for whole groups based upon their own preferences.

Regarding the clinical preparedness of nurses, everyone is aware that BSNs have the same amount of clinical hours as ADNs, right? That these are dictated by the SBONs? It follows that the myth of the "epically lost BSN" being worked circles around by his or her ADN peers is a fantasy contrived by the terminally insecure. I certainly have not seen it, I work in a very large magnet facility where we have both preparations, and there isn't any difference in learning curve. We've done studies.

Finally, all anyone needs to know, if they're coming to it objectively, about the debate on this subject can be gathered from the interchange between MunoRN and Ntheboat2. I am not unbiased though, so I'll just say, Ntheboat2, I get your frustration and applaud your fortitude, I'd have given up long ago.

From where I sit it looks like an adult beset by yapping dogs, that's how it usually looks around here when a BSN prepared nurse dares to defend his or her degree. And before anyone gets upset, this is what is known as a metaphor, you can learn about them in one of those classes they make you take for almost any bachelor degree but which cause you to clench your fists and stomp your feet and scream defiance.