Ethical Dilemma Concerning Commitment to Work

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

My situation is this: I was working for a very unethical hospice, doing a good job when they weren't screwing it up, when I was approached to work for a home health. I declined due to commitment to my team and my patients. I was then asked, what if someone wanted to open a hospice just like the one you are in, but the bills would be paid, they would not lie to you, and they would take your whole team; would you be interested? I said I was interested.

That was in August or so.

Things went from bad to work between September and December with the "bad" hospice, and I resigned from them, fully expecting to be working by mid January, first of February at the latest, with the full team following really quick. Because that was what I was told.

It's late March. All of the team has fallen away except for myself, our chaplain (who on the strength of my assurances has been working 20 hours a week at a furniture store, waiting), and an RN who is still holding out at the old place waiting to come onboard with the new business.

Over the past couple of weeks, when I could collar the new owner, there have been noises (nothing specific but I always have my antennae up, that's just me) that no one is going to be hired except for me.

On the other hand, there were noises about needing to decorate the office ("it needs to look professional") and I did a little of that--nothing big, just stuff I had around the house and wasn't using. Anyway, the big issue is not hiring the team and expecting me to work alone.

Well, it's more than a one person job, there was never any agreement on my part to work alone for any length of time, and that isn't my style. I might have considered it had it been what was offered, but it wasn't.

Today I got a more specific "I don't think it's going to be that way," and that wasn't from the owner, but from the NP (a wonderful person I respect a lot). The owner doesn't give very direct answers. He also seems to avoid (consciously or otherwise) communication among the three of us (him, the NP and me), although she was able to get him to agree to it.

HOWEVER, when I consider backing out of the deal (which has changed significantly since I committed), I feel teary and guilty. I feel awful for having "strung along" our chaplain, who I think is the best guy I have come across in a long, long time. And for some reason, even though the deal has never been put into writing, and I cannot get straight answers about the "full benefits" we were supposed to be getting, I feel guilty!!!

So, I can talk myself out of the guilt if I can believe I am not doing wrong.

If this were a bunch of us sitting around, I could ask you face to face.

Anyone have any reflections for me? I should add that I gave up three days to fly to San Antonio to participate in a provider workshop put on by the state--granted I didn't pay my expenses (although I would have and offered), but it was uncompensated time, so I guess maybe I volunteered to do that.

What I am getting at is, I feel like I am renegging, but I think I have given a lot voluntarily.

OK, friends, climb inside my head and help me out!

[TazziRN, RN]

Hmm.........if it's bothering you that much, if I were you I would not take the position since promises weren't kept. If the owner didn't keep this one, how many others will he break?

[Cattitude]

Ok this is exactly why we get the shaft all the time. You tell him now what YOU expect or you will go get another job immediately.

Please be prepared to do this and do not be wishy washy. There should be no guilt if you do back out because the owner is playing games.

You should have gotten this in writing but what's done is done, we all make mistakes and hindsight is always perfect!

Tell your chaplain and the other RN what the real deal is and that your are going to walk if they are not accepted if you are willing to do this. If you are not then tell them the deal anyway, you need to be honest so they can find other employment.

If you decide to accept this job please get all aspects of employment in writing a.s.a.p. this guy sounds very iffy and may SAY anything, I would not trust what he or anybody else says.

Good luck!

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Hmm.........if it's bothering you that much, if I were you I would not take the position since promises weren't kept. If the owner didn't keep this one, how many others will he break?

My sister said exactly the same thing. Gosh it's good to hear from great minds.

[chris_at_lucas_RN, RN]

Ok this is exactly why we get the shaft all the time. You tell him now what YOU expect or you will go get another job immediately.

Please be prepared to do this and do not be wishy washy. There should be no guilt if you do back out because the owner is playing games.

You should have gotten this in writing but what's done is done, we all make mistakes and hindsight is always perfect!

Tell your chaplain and the other RN what the real deal is and that your are going to walk if they are not accepted if you are willing to do this. If you are not then tell them the deal anyway, you need to be honest so they can find other employment.

If you decide to accept this job please get all aspects of employment in writing a.s.a.p. this guy sounds very iffy and may SAY anything, I would not trust what he or anybody else says.

Good luck!

I cannot thank you enough. Wishy-washy. That's what I have been for a long time. No wonder I find myself in these kinds of spots.

I already called the chaplain and the other nurse. I cried talking to the chaplain. I just felt so bad--he had been waiting and trusting. The RN has a regular job--turns out she felt like the owner was getting cold feet a month ago. I don't think he has cold feet, I just think he is making decisions based on a business model I don't agree to.

Actually, if he is not willing to take on the chaplain, I don't want the job. And actually, the more I think about being the only nurse on the job, being on-call 24/7, "forwarding the phones during lunch" (how is that "lunch?") the less interested I am.

The sucky thing is, I love hospice, just sat for my CHPN--now I'll have a credential that just isn't going to help me very much.

Well, ya never know what's going to happen, do you.

I can't thank you enough for the straight talk. I half expected you to say, if you accept this job, you are getting what you deserve. (Thank you for stopping before that.... I say that enough myself. )

[Psqrd]

It is always great to commited to work and your patients but as health care workers it is often easy to forget our commitment to ourselves. My wife recently went through a job change and during the interview process, had interviewed with a local hospital. The supervisor stated that he was very interested in her and that she had to do one more interview with the so called "big boss". Over the next few weeks the excuses started to come in...oh he couldn't do it one week because of staffing problems...another week he had hurt himself at work...oh out of town on conference....out of town on vacation...oh the holidays, everyone is out....so on and so on for almost 2 months this went on. Now mind you this is a major facility. My wife ended up taking a job with another facility and was very dissappointed because she really wanted that first job. I reminded her of the delays and excuses that this guy gave her over the last couple of months and asked if she thought about what it would be like to work for someone like that. She has been very happy at her new job...my point being is this sounds like a similar situation and I have a feeling that its not going to improve for you, remember that you have a commitment to youself and demand more for yourself.

Good luck you sound like a good nurse that really wants to help those that need it, the fear I have for you is that this situation could sour that for you.

p

[bethin]

HOWEVER, when I consider backing out of the deal (which has changed significantly since I committed), I feel teary and guilty. I feel awful for having "strung along" our chaplain, who I think is the best guy I have come across in a long, long time. And for some reason, even though the deal has never been put into writing, and I cannot get straight answers about the "full benefits" we were supposed to be getting, I feel guilty!!!

Have you talked to the chaplain about your concerns? I would definitely suggest that. Could be he's feeling the same way you are. He's probably anxiously waiting to go back to work in hospice. He also needs to be aware of what's going on.

IMO, you can't talk yourself out of guilt. You have to make peace with yourself.

Ok, never mind. I didn't read your previous post where you talked to the chaplain.

[Cattitude]

I cannot thank you enough. Wishy-washy. That's what I have been for a long time. No wonder I find myself in these kinds of spots.

I already called the chaplain and the other nurse. I cried talking to the chaplain. I just felt so bad--he had been waiting and trusting. The RN has a regular job--turns out she felt like the owner was getting cold feet a month ago. I don't think he has cold feet, I just think he is making decisions based on a business model I don't agree to.

Actually, if he is not willing to take on the chaplain, I don't want the job. And actually, the more I think about being the only nurse on the job, being on-call 24/7, "forwarding the phones during lunch" (how is that "lunch?") the less interested I am.

The sucky thing is, I love hospice, just sat for my CHPN--now I'll have a credential that just isn't going to help me very much.

Well, ya never know what's going to happen, do you.

I can't thank you enough for the straight talk. I half expected you to say, if you accept this job, you are getting what you deserve. (Thank you for stopping before that.... I say that enough myself. )

Your welcome! I'm glad my post went through as I was typing it with the problems last night. I hit "submit" and the screen went blank. I thought it didn't even post!

Hey we all need to hear the "straight talk" sometimes. I'm very blunt and always say what's on my mind. I love when people do it for me too, even when it's not always puppies and sunshine:nuke: .

If you love hospice then eventually you will find your job again. Are there other agencies around you?

If not, bide your time and one day a door will open. I am a true believer in everything happening for a reason. That whole deal just sounded too iffy and be glad that you didn't get sucked into it. Your chaplain sounds like a dear and hopefully you and he will find something soon.

Good luck!

[Gromit]

Hmm.........if it's bothering you that much, if I were you I would not take the position since promises weren't kept. If the owner didn't keep this one, how many others will he break?

I'm with TazziRN on this. The sad part is having to tell the rest of your team about the results of your efforts -since it appears that many of them left the 'old' place on your word about a new and better facility. Still, that IS reality, and you made your comments to them in good faith. Its not your fault that the new owners are trying to change the nature of the agreement. No way would I have anything to do with them -if they are going to be like this before the job even starts, imagine what they will be like once things are under way, and the obligations become real.

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

I don't think you ought to feel guilty about people making life decisions on what "might" happen. Everyone makes their own decision. They could have said "well, call me if it ever materializes". You are not responsible for the bad behavior of another person or the decision by good people.

[Quickbeam, BSN, RN]

I've seen people in the free standing rehab/assisted living/hospice field have grand visions they just couldn't make happen. I also saw a lot of very nice staff follow these dreamers off a cliff, job wise.

You are entitled to know the basics about any job and to know what type of risk you are being asked to assume. OP, you are not being treated in an honest fashion.

[Gromit]

Perhaps not, but I do understand the feeling guilty over a predicted situation that went wrong.