acupuncture question

You may want to try asking in the Holistic Nursing section..someone may know over there.

If you have a master's degree in acupuncture you can practice without referral in most states.

Soon there will be a NP acupuncture association that will lobby for NP's to perform acupuncture if they complete a certain curriculum (not as involved as getting a master's degree but with much more training than the medical acupuncturists). Details should follow in a few months.

Okay, thank you, I didn't realize to put in on the Holistic Nursing thread.

Hey Josh L.Ac:

Please do let us all know about any legislative action on NP's and acupuncture, number of hours of training required, etc. I believe right now an MD can get 200 hours training and then perform acupuncture as he/she sees fit? (which seems odd to me) I know it can be very effective for lower back pain relief. THANKS Josh!

I can't give any specifics as of yet, but there are two possibilities for NPs to practice acupuncture in the future: including acupuncture training as part of a clinical doctorate in nursing, or the creation of a NP acupuncture organization.

I should know more in a few months.

Yes, in most states, a MD/DO or DC can practice acupuncture with little or no training. I could have taken a few classes in spinal manipulation and tuina (Chinese massage) in acupuncture school. If I would have completed those courses and then advertised that I could do adjustments, it would be plain silly.

There is a way that the medical acupuncturists get around this line of reasoning, i.e., by suggesting that classical acupuncture is based off of religious beliefs and thus inherently worthless, but that shall be saved for another discussion (much later).

Hey All!

It looks like good old Papadoc fell asleep on this one:chuckle .

I practice acupuncture in NY and NJ (two separate licenses).I had several NPs, one CMW, and one CRNA in my class (2001). In NYS, so far, no professions other than MD/DO are allowed to practice acupuncture with 300 hr certification. ASNY is fighting a good fight to keep things as they are. I remember about 3 years ago DPMs (podiatrists)have been shown the door by the NYS legislators:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: . At least my membership fees were the money well spent. I hope that Acupuncture will be protected, just like every licensed profession should be. I know it's tempting to take some certification course, CEU etc. But allowing somebody to practice the incredibly compex medical system (including MD/DO) with 200-300 hrs of workshops and home study course is doing a great diservice to the patient.I believe that even Master's level wich I've got with over 4000 hrs (I also did clinical externships with Master Practitioners)...basically I haven't scratch the scratch yet.And believe me guys, I'm doing some things for my patients that really count. The American Master's level programs are the already a stripped-down version of it's counterparts in Korea, Japan, China, and many European programs.The medical acupuncture course is pretty much reducing the whole art and science of Oriental Medicine to rubble. I had a great "pleasure" of teaching point location to some arrogant group of docs once.When some of them understood that they don't know what they don't know...they've changed their attitudes a bit:angryfire :yelclap: I'm just about done with my rant.But here is a little piece of advise from Papadoc: if you truely want to practice acupuncture and/or chinese herbology, just go to the approved school, and get at least an exposure to what's outthere.

Here are few links for starters:

http://www.nccaom.org (the official "everything" site)

http://www.tsca.edu (school I went to:kiss what a heck free plug for them;)

http://www.acupuncture.com

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com

Have a good one

Paps

I am planning on finishing a BSN RN program. I am also interested in Oriental medicine and acupuncture. Do any practicing nurses know if nurse practitioners are able to perform acupuncture if they are licensed to do so?

What about physician assistants? It would take me the same amount of time to complete the BSN program as it would a physician assistant program, and I am wondering which would allow more opportunities for things like that, and more autonomy.

Chiropractors are able to practice accupuncture with 50 - 100 hrs of training (in some states) and they know nothing about Chinese Medicine. Two people I know who were accuncture students recieved a treatment (this was an experiment) from three different Chiropractors who were licensed to do accupuncture. Their experiences disgusted them. The chiropractors were asked a few simple questions about TCM and couldn't answer them. The needles weren't even placed on the right meridians. Accupuncturists have a 3000 hour training program which is far more than the 50 - 100 hours of training those Chiropractors have.

I studied TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) for 2 years and there was not one iota of overlap from anything I learned in nursing school. TCM is worlds away from Western medicine and is a completely different system. I can't imagine any NP being qualified to do accupuncture with a basic training program.

Hey All!

It looks like good old Papadoc fell asleep on this one:chuckle .

I practice acupuncture in NY and NJ (two separate licenses).I had several NPs, one CMW, and one CRNA in my class (2001). In NYS, so far, no professions other than MD/DO are allowed to practice acupuncture with 300 hr certification. ASNY is fighting a good fight to keep things as they are. I remember about 3 years ago DPMs (podiatrists)have been shown the door by the NYS legislators:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: . At least my membership fees were the money well spent. I hope that Acupuncture will be protected, just like every licensed profession should be. I know it's tempting to take some certification course, CEU etc. But allowing somebody to practice the incredibly compex medical system (including MD/DO) with 200-300 hrs of workshops and home study course is doing a great diservice to the patient.I believe that even Master's level wich I've got with over 4000 hrs (I also did clinical externships with Master Practitioners)...basically I haven't scratch the scratch yet.And believe me guys, I'm doing some things for my patients that really count. The American Master's level programs are the already a stripped-down version of it's counterparts in Korea, Japan, China, and many European programs.The medical acupuncture course is pretty much reducing the whole art and science of Oriental Medicine to rubble. I had a great "pleasure" of teaching point location to some arrogant group of docs once.When some of them understood that they don't know what they don't know...they've changed their attitudes a bit:angryfire :yelclap: I'm just about done with my rant.But here is a little piece of advise from Papadoc: if you truely want to practice acupuncture and/or chinese herbology, just go to the approved school, and get at least an exposure to what's outthere.

Here are few links for starters:

http://www.nccaom.org (the official "everything" site)

http://www.tsca.edu (school I went to:kiss what a heck free plug for them;)

http://www.acupuncture.com

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com

Have a good one

Paps

I hope to go to TSCA this fall. I have heard a graduate tell me that the school's teaching concentrate more on muscle work. In the open house I went to where Warner Seem was speaking to us, they seem to have an eclectic array of approaches - Japanese, Korean and Chinese, and the meridians for each of those cultures is different. Can you shed some light on this for me?

I am choosing them because their schedule is easy to fit into my fulltime work, but I don't really know how to "shop" for the right school. Ultimately I'm going to work in maternity and labor, and I want to incorporate accupuncture into my practice, including pain management and moxibustion for breech presentations, which is Chinese. Is one school just as good as another?

Hey All!

It looks like good old Papadoc fell asleep on this one:chuckle .

I practice acupuncture in NY and NJ (two separate licenses).I had several NPs, one CMW, and one CRNA in my class (2001). In NYS, so far, no professions other than MD/DO are allowed to practice acupuncture with 300 hr certification. ASNY is fighting a good fight to keep things as they are. I remember about 3 years ago DPMs (podiatrists)have been shown the door by the NYS legislators:yelclap: :yelclap: :yelclap: . At least my membership fees were the money well spent. I hope that Acupuncture will be protected, just like every licensed profession should be. I know it's tempting to take some certification course, CEU etc. But allowing somebody to practice the incredibly compex medical system (including MD/DO) with 200-300 hrs of workshops and home study course is doing a great diservice to the patient.I believe that even Master's level wich I've got with over 4000 hrs (I also did clinical externships with Master Practitioners)...basically I haven't scratch the scratch yet.And believe me guys, I'm doing some things for my patients that really count. The American Master's level programs are the already a stripped-down version of it's counterparts in Korea, Japan, China, and many European programs.The medical acupuncture course is pretty much reducing the whole art and science of Oriental Medicine to rubble. I had a great "pleasure" of teaching point location to some arrogant group of docs once.When some of them understood that they don't know what they don't know...they've changed their attitudes a bit:angryfire :yelclap: I'm just about done with my rant.But here is a little piece of advise from Papadoc: if you truely want to practice acupuncture and/or chinese herbology, just go to the approved school, and get at least an exposure to what's outthere.

Here are few links for starters:

http://www.nccaom.org (the official "everything" site)

http://www.tsca.edu (school I went to:kiss what a heck free plug for them;)

http://www.acupuncture.com

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com

Have a good one

Paps

I 100% agree that after 3+ years of acupuncture school, it is just the tip of the iceberg. However, if you are like me, I realized that some of the material covered wasn't relevant to practicing acupuncture in the US. In addition, most patients in this country come in to treat pain. This is how the program will be streamlined: it will focus on the use of acupuncture to treat pain.

Oh, and no herbs. Unless a student completes the whole MSAOM program they shouldn't be allowed to touch herbs (not even patents).