I was once working with an addictions counselor and he put it very simply.

We all start out as cucumbers. But when one becomes addicted to alcohol or narcotic, we turn into a pickle.

As a pickle cannot turn back into a cucumber, we as recovering addicts, must admit to ourself we'll never be the same again. We're never "cured".

We've felt the physical effects of our drug of choice. We know how that feels. We have to run away when given the chance to get high/drink.

And as such, I will no longer feel how it is to be a cucumber. I know this, but I also will forever be looking over my shoulder.(10 years sober) I will always know I'm a pickle and have to actively stay sober and continue fighting off drugs and alcohol.

Make any sense?

I like that 'once a pickle ... '.

I guess the 'pickle/cucumber' analogy can apply to any type of addictive behavior background. I'm thinking of folk who struggle with morbid obesity and large weight loss. Recidivism is always there.

I hear this all the time in AA but have yet to run across any actual scientific studies to back it up. The closest I've seen is some of the longer longitudinal studies suggest that even alcoholics who report being successful at moderation several years out tend to move towards abstinence with even longer sobriety. Of course, all the studies showing the efficacy of the Sinclair method would indeed indicate that you can unpickle a pickle, at least in certain situations.

It's crazy how so many AA platitudes have made their way into mainstream thought on addiction. Even the ever popular Jellinek chart was initially based on faulty statistic crunching and seemingly never revised or revisited.

I hear this all the time in AA but have yet to run across any actual scientific studies to back it up. The closest I've seen is some of the longer longitudinal studies suggest that even alcoholics who report being successful at moderation several years out tend to move towards abstinence with even longer sobriety. Of course, all the studies showing the efficacy of the Sinclair method would indeed indicate that you can unpickle a pickle, at least in certain situations.

It's crazy how so many AA platitudes have made their way into mainstream thought on addiction. Even the ever popular Jellinek chart was initially based on faulty statistic crunching and seemingly never revised or revisited.

Thank you for your response Do you think there's a cure for substance abuse/ addiction? I tend to lean toward "chronic" with no substantive medication and Healthcare teaching. There are rehab facilities but they are few and far between.

For now I'll just be a pickle and do my very best each day. I'm lucky to be alive! The minute I start thinking in cured, I'll be going out to celebrate. That's just something I can't do.

No, I don't think I will ever be "cured." But I also don't think I will need to go to AA meetings for the rest of my life, either, y'know?

My frustration is with the lack of any evidence-based processes and the way that AA-isms bleed over into all other addiction treatment as if they were rooted in anything other than the AA microcosm.

I hold out my good wishes for those folk who continue to struggle with their addictions, be they acute, chronic or in remission (is there a real term for this stage?). I ask that because there's currently a TV commercial for some rehab place where the TV 'pts' all avow that they've 'beat their addictions'. I cringe whenever I hear that commercial.

Maybe I'm just an old-timer, but waaaay back, I learned that no one 'beats their addiction' and is ever really, 100%, truly cured. That they will always need to be vigilant for lapses - that there's no such thing as 'just one cigarette', or 'just one drink'. I have had serious problems with dieting and maintaining weight loss (like BIG BIG BIG amounts). Some well-meaning folk would benignly (I believe) say 'oh, just a little birthday cake' or just 'one plate of mac & cheese'. Falling off the proverbial wagon and then climbing back on is sooooo much more difficult than just abstaining.

I like the 'once a pickle ...' as a personal mantra.

TY for sharing it.

No, I don't think I will ever be "cured." But I also don't think I will need to go to AA meetings for the rest of my life, either, y'know?

My frustration is with the lack of any evidence-based processes and the way that AA-isms bleed over into all other addiction treatment as if they were rooted in anything other than the AA microcosm.

I hold out my good wishes for those folk who continue to struggle with their addictions, be they acute, chronic or in remission (is there a real term for this stage?). I ask that because there's currently a TV commercial for some rehab place where the TV 'pts' all avow that they've 'beat their addictions'. I cringe whenever I hear that commercial.

Maybe I'm just an old-timer, but waaaay back, I learned that no one 'beats their addiction' and is ever really, 100%, truly cured. That they will always need to be vigilant for lapses - that there's no such thing as 'just one cigarette', or 'just one drink'. I have had serious problems with dieting and maintaining weight loss (like BIG BIG BIG amounts). Some well-meaning folk would benignly (I believe) say 'oh, just a little birthday cake' or just 'one plate of mac & cheese'. Falling off the proverbial wagon and then climbing back on is sooooo much more difficult than just abstaining.

I like the 'once a pickle ...' as a personal mantra.

TY for sharing it.

Yes! The commercial for a rehab center called Passages. The guy says, and I quote "I was addicted but now I'm not".

I think to myself ooooookay dude. Good for you. I can't stand that commercial.

Oops I didn't mean to quote hippygirl. Lol

The other mantra I practice is to never say 'NEVER'. It imparts a sense of cockiness or over-selfassuredness that the person feels he/she will never experience a relapse.

This is esp seen with dieters who swear they'll 'never get fat again'. For their sakes, I hope that relapse will not occur. But the statistics are something else for those dealing with addictions.

I don't believe in tempting the Fates.

The other mantra I practice is to never say 'NEVER'. It imparts a sense of cockiness or over-selfassuredness that the person feels he/she will never experience a relapse.

This is esp seen with dieters who swear they'll 'never get fat again'. For their sakes, I hope that relapse will not occur. But the statistics are something else for those dealing with addictions.

I don't believe in tempting the Fates.

Yes! The commercial for a rehab center called Passages. The guy says, and I quote "I was addicted but now I'm not".

I think to myself ooooookay dude. Good for you. I can't stand that commercial.

Hate the commercial, too. Especially since they make drug rehab seem like a vacation!

I knew a lady in rehab who had done Passages twice and she said it WAS like a vacation. Lots of one on one therapy (hours a day) and lots of couples/family therapy as well but in a gorgeous house with beach privileges and a pool/spa.

I knew a lady in rehab who had done Passages twice and she said it WAS like a vacation. Lots of one on one therapy (hours a day) and lots of couples/family therapy as well but in a gorgeous house with beach privileges and a pool/spa.

Wow... And private pay 50g [emoji90] lol