athenashay21

Clarification, that should read: "If a DNP truly produced better clinicians than the MSN degree, a DNP would be required for Full Practice Authority (FPA) ...".

Update: I am currently in this program. I work full time Mon-Fri with somewhat flexible hours in outpatient surgery. I chose to attend the program (MSN-FNP) part-time. This means I will complete it in a total of 3 years vs. 2 years. I am SO glad I made that choice. I also have two young children 7y/o and 3 y/o and a husband and 6 dogs. So my life is not necessarily full of free time. It has been a process of relearning how to learn after 9 years out of school but I love learning and I love school. The first year or so of the program were a bit discouraging (just to be honest), in terms of the quality of delivery of the didactic content. Compared to my undergrad education which was very rigorous as well as VERY organized and top-notch, the first year of this program was shocking in its lack of consistency of content delivery and lack of availability of the professors. There are legit reasons for this (recently retired staff, current staff also maintaining clinic jobs as well as teaching, etc.) but I know I am not alone in this sentiment. HOWEVER, all that to say, now that we have made it to our first clinical rotation class (Primary Care I), we have all been extremely impressed by our professors and the content. Even though the first year was difficult for the previously stated reasons, I would not change programs. The affordability is fantastic. And, I am a very motivated learning who is okay with A LOT of independent learning. And even for those who need more "dependent" learning than I who are in my cohort have also made it this far as well. We have not lost more than a handful in the process. The time requirements for class days on campus or on Zoom are very doable. For example, we meet on campus twice this semester. We met on campus for advanced health assessment 3 times last semester. Each year the "class day" switches between Tues or Thurs. This semester our class day is Tuesday. We do not have any synchronous lectures. We have all recorded lectures and other learning support. We also, of course, have our clinic rotations so that is partly why we only have 2 synchronous on-campus classes this semester compared to prior semesters. During our pathophysiology and pharm courses we met about weekly on Zoom on that specified class day. Looking ahead I already know I will not be able to work full time as of the last Summer semester in the program. For full-time students it is VERY difficult to work full time. As a part-time student with the flexibility of being able to remain full time at 32-hours/week I have been able to work FT so far. I also have a super supportive husband and kids. My husband cooks, cleans, watches the children and works only part time so that he can support my schedule. It's really incredible and not something everyone has so I do not take it for granted. Please feel free to ask me any questions. I am not on here frequently but I will do my best to get back to you! Athena

I also 100% agree that, for the already practicing Advanced Practice Nurse, there needs to be a doctoral option that is truly clinically focused in the way the a medical doctorate is. The post-master's DNP, although an alternative to the post-masters PhD, is primarily policy and leadership focused. If an NP wants to practice in clinic as a primary care provider for 100% of their time for the rest of their career, let's say, in family medicine, for example, the DNP is simply not needed to advance their knowledge base or clinical proficiency. If a DNP truly produced better clinicians than an MSN degree it would be required for Full Practice Authority (FPA) and we have not seen that be the case. MSN NPs are truly good providers, safe and proficient in their fields and that is why we have been given FPA in many states. If we truly want to elevate our Clinical Professionals (and especially if there is a push to make a Doctorate of Nursing the exit degree for NPs) we truly need to have an option among the doctoral degrees of a truly clinically focused terminal degree. I mean, yes, we (of the "clinical bent") could just go to medical school for a terminal degree if we are so determined to have a clinically focused doctorate... but many of us want to remain in the nursing field. We need to show that our programs can produce consistently clinically proficient medical providers. Like it or not, NPs are working within and pushing for independence among what has been defined for centuries as medicine (not nursing). If we want to be able to practice at the highest level of clinical practice and colleague supported independence, it would be appropriate to have a Doctorate of Nursing program that mirrors the model of medical schools which has shown a consistent output of great clinical providers. This is done through extensive and rigorous didactic and supervised clinical learning experiences. I personally would love to have the option of just being in primary care for the rest of my career AND have a terminal degree that supports my clinical pursuits as a primary care provider, not as a future policy maker or clinic manager, etc. That's not to say classes with policy or leadership focus should not be included in the "clinical doctorate" for NPs but I would much rather spend the additional 500+ clinical practice hours on a deeper dive into clinical specifics, in a fellowship, and/or in an ambulatory care specialty and not just a quasi-PhD research project. It would be great to have a program that went into greater depth on all areas related to primary care (or acute care respectively for ACNPs) such as biochem, advanced kinetics and physiology, endocrine, cardiology, neurobiology, advanced application of differential dx's (the horses AND the zebras), advanced clinical nutrition & even maybe some alternative modalities like chiropractic (osteopathic) procedures, clinical herbalism and clinical acupuncture. We COULD be so well-rounded as Doctoral Nurses with such potential to truly lead our field into peer-supported and colleague supportive professional advances within our passions toward primary care. Medical doctors typically spend so much money on medical school it is not always in their best interests to pursue Primary Care and get paid so much less than if they specialize. On the other hand, Advanced Practice Nurses (specifically in Primary Care) could, like another peer said in their post, really take the lead in the area of Primary Care. Primary Care Clinical Specialization could easily be where we could go with a clinically focused nursing doctorate for NPs. The PhD and the DNP are truly great options for so many NPs. They have their purposes and real strengths. And on the other hand, in my opinion, a Doctorate of Clinical Nursing Practice could elevate our terminal degree options as Nurse Practitioners who have a deep passion for primary care and/or primarily clinically-focused practice (acute/specialty). It could dramatically change the landscape of our future independence, satisfaction in our careers as PCPs and improve cohesiveness with clinical colleagues and our "non-NP" counterparts (physicians).

This is an older thread but I would love to hear from some of the original students who posted here and attended the program. I am in the process of applying for this upcoming year. I would love to know more about anyone's experience: working full time in the part time program, hours of in-person class per week (Tues/Thurs), anything about the part time vs. the full time program, etc. Thanks!