mobilsurgrn

They will be there soon. Get out your checkbook.... If CNA is your best hope- move.

Wow, you are a former HR Director and want to help organize a union in a right to work state. Did your training as a Hospital HR Director include any information about labor law? Florida has a number of great nursing unions like SEIU (service workers) and the UFCW (food workers). Based on the overwhelming number of clinician members both of these great unions fully understand the needs of nurses. There have been union elections by nurses in Florida. To date, about 3% of Florida nurses are union members while just over 4% of Florida nurses are members of a local bowling league... Best of luck!

So that 20% is obviously smarter than the other 80%.. Where's the data? Which union sets the standard for what I make? Is there a study that shows that union nurses have better compensation (salary, benefits) after subtracting dues, than non union? Or research that shows that union nurses are more satisfied with their jobs than the overwhelming majority of non-union nurses? How about retention? Do union nurses stay in their jobs longer than non-union? Are union nurses better trained (meaning do they attend CE and attain certification at higher rates?) If this were true unions could easily double their memberships in a few years. I think we would all agree that new members are the life blood (read DUES) of unions. What could a study like this cost, maybe $1-2 million? I think that may be a very liberal estimate. So, if any of these notions were even possible, the CNA (AFL-CIO), UAN, NYSNA, and SEIU, who combined, collected over $100 million from nurses last year would be tripping over themselves to publish those studies, wouldn't they?

And on the same day, today, for the first time in CNA's history, (following a decert petition filed 1/13/06) nurses at Inland Valley Medical Center in Murietta, voted by a margin of 55/45 to remove the CNA as it's bargaining agent. Whether you are pro or anti union, this is democracy in action. Hopefully we will see more of the same on Nov 7th. If they aren't working for you, vote 'em out.

I may have misspoken. But if you look at the BLS report for 2004-2005, in the category for healthcare professionals, in which nurses are included, the rate of union representation rose from 12.4 to 12.6%. This may include a disproportionate share of non-nurse healthcare professionals. Not a huge jump unless you put the number in context to the info that you mentioned. I think the big increases in representation are in the western states. Where I live, there isn't a chance at a union organizing nurses and even if they did, state law prohibits closed shops.

OK, so trying to navigate the polar(ized) ice here..For those of you who take the absolute, respective positions that unions are absolutely the best thing for nurses in California but they're not relevant or desired in Texas or other locations, is there a scenario that you can think of that would make you beleive something different. I am trying to understand the depth/bredth of convictions and why.

I may be incorrect about this, and I will go back and look at my old (22 years ago) class notes, but I think required union membership (union security) isn't mandatory- even in non right to work states like California. Union security is bargained as a required part of the contract. If that is correct, the union would need to offer the employer something at the bargaining table to obtain union security. Once union security was included in the contract then membership (or actually payment of dues) would be mandatory. One thing I am sure of is that employees can always opt to be dues paying nonmembers if they have an objection to membership. They are still entitled to representation and all of the benefits, they just can't vote in union matters.

I am relatively new to this board but there seems to be a trend relative to Pro and Anti-Union posts and posters. Union membership in nursing is on the rise. Still there are more nurses who choose not to orgainize than who do. Will the trend continue to rise to a point where unions hold the majority of nurses as members? Time will tell. If I used this board as a barometer, I would think we are headed down a divided, non-constructive path. Threads on this board seem to get heated and then closed. Some members use the board to support, without exception, their hardline position about unions. Kinda looks like some have drunk the kool-aide to a point of no return. The first ammendment is a wonderful think but it says nothing about objectivity As long as we hold the line in one camp- union vs. management, as a profession we remain captive and dependent. It's just not reasonable or rational to think that one or the other is always working for our best interests. We all know horror stories and we can all recite great gains won by unions and facilitated by an employer. Don't drink the kool-aide. The purple mustache is a dead give-away.

OK, I'll have to trust your experience on that...

I don't think it's directly about money. I think recognition may go away in a one-payor model. I completely agree that a mandatory insurance model would be a good first step and I would not complain about paying a fair share for others to have it.

It is nothing but spin and it was published over 10 years ago. But take the issue out of political context. The proposed legislation is rediculous. It is unsustainable and would never pass a means test. The bill's sponsor claims that the U.S. could provide the current model- every bell, whistle and stop, to all U.S. residents, not citizens but residents, by curbing costs through paperwork reduction, national contracts for drugs, elimination of all for-profit entities, renegotiated provider agreements and a modest payroll tax. The bill states that all existing for-profit properties would be purchased by the government. According to The American Hospital Directory, there are 1257 U.S.for-profit facilities with an average net present value of $30 million. So we would start out with a repurchase bill of $37 billion dollars. Then, regional government agencies would systematically "right-size" each community, closing hospitals and mothballing a good portion of the money spent to purchase the for-profits. Competition would end and with it so would many best practice pursuits. I don't advocate much of the current and past overspending due to competition but ending competition alltogether would be catastrophic. So here comes another proposed program that would land in the laps of the working middle class and gives honest, caring liberals, like myself, a bad name. If the CNA wants to put this stuff out as "what's best for patients" they must do some research, understand the implications and be responsible about telling all sides of the story. They have not done that- yet. It sounds good, it sounds right, and it's something that they can chastize opponents for not supporting.

Fergus, as a person who lived in Canada, how would an all-access system make a difference in ED visits? Would people avail themselves to clinics or primary care physicians because it was free? Do Canadians, as a rule, take more respsonsibilty for preventative care? I a Canadian has a URI or the flu can they get in to see a physician in a reasonable amount of time? I ask these questions because it seems now that if I get sick I can't get an appointment with my primary care doc for several days. By then, I am either well or really sick.. We hear all of the horror stories about Canada, England, others, but you have first hand experience. Can Americans, who are comparably unhealthy, make this work?

One of the largest non- union hospital in southern Calif. is now under California Nurses Assn. control............... Under their control? Might not be far from true. How abjectly sad.

I was in San Diego a few weeks ago. On the first night there, my boss and I went down to the Gaslight? area for dinner. We were standing on a street corner waiting to cross when a car swerved up onto the sidewalk and hit my boss (at > 40 mph). It threw him about 6 feet into the air and 20 feet back onto the sidewalk. Within about 3 minutes, EMTs arrived and transported him to the trauma unit at UCSD. I was numb. 25 years of nursing experience evaporated. But the nursing staff in the UCSD trauma unit was absolutely amazing. Best combination of intensity, dialogue, colaboration I have ever seen. They kept me informed every 5-10 minutes so I could relay info to his family by phone. He walked out the next morning. This is why we do what we do. It was truly a great group of nurses. Viva la UCSD..

Spacenurse, what I said was "So, as messed-up as our model is, I think advocating for a one-payor system is a waste of time, effort and money and that's a shame." What I meant, and I can understand the misinterpretation, was that all the money, time and effort in California or wherever will NEVER be enough to compete with the Fortune 50, and that is a shame. The fact is that even with people's best intentions, this does not, by any stretch of the imagination, compare to the recent fight with Arnold. The Healthcare Enterprise in this country has many layers and in each layer there are special interests. It will take many years to untangle. It's not as simple as a state saying, "We will establish campaign finance laws that will create elections that are free of 'dirty money' and that will fix the problem." MAybe what you folks are doing is a good start. I don't know...

I agree that we will not have a universal healthcare system. There are way too many companies that would essentially be obsolesed and who are major political contibutors, year after year. Also, the man who is third or fourth in the succesion line to the president has a Frist somewhere in his name. (His father founded HCA). Hundreds of thousands of people whose jobs exist to support our frenetic, disconnected system would be unemployed. To absorb them into a one payor system would more than erode the 20% benefit mentioned in a prior post. So, as messed-up as our model is, I think advocating for a one-payor system is a waste of time, effort and money and that's a shame. It's not gonna happen folks..

issues like this get where they are (in an or suite) for one reason. leaders have lost the ability to lead. twenty years ago, many leaders rose to their positions because their peers, surgeons and hospital leaders recognized that person’s ability to get people to work together. those who have been around for a while know i mean. a little gray in the temples or a little swagger in the step, but with one glance you knew that you were out of line and you respected that person so much, you stopped acting out and got your rear-end back in line. it seems now that leaders aren’t cultivated, they are appointed. i have managed operating rooms for over twenty-five years now. i am an associates degree nurse. what i learned about getting people to work together, i learned by doing the work, and from being mentored by some very generous managers- not by sitting in a classroom. and, the one thing that every one of these leaders taught me was that you can’t manage an operating room suite from your office. if you are on the halls, in the rooms and other areas (pacu, spd, etc) talking to your team, issues get resolved. it is my responsibility to fix systems issues so people can get their work done. it is my responsibility to confront surgeons who misbehave and it is easier to do this at the scrub sink. it’s simple but not necessarily easy. if mangers do their part and systems work, people generally don’t act out. if they do then you deal with them one on one and expect them to fix their individual, personal issues. if they can’t do that then you manage them out of their position. you can’t allow toxic people to create a toxic work environment. this can be done whether your staff is union or non-union. i hear a lot about generation x,y,z or whatever and their respective idyo’s but one thing never changes -good leaders make people feel valued and people who feel valued know that whatever their role, tech, nurse, surgeon, housekeeper and yes even anesthesiologist, their function is in the end- to heal. when leaders allow people to lose sight of that, they lose their department. hold your leader accountable and when they fix stuff, show them some love.

I have a friend who has been on the BON in ND for many years. Her name is Claudia Dietrich, she is the Director of Surgical Services at St. Alexus MC in Bismarck. She would probably do a quick phone interview with you. She is a former nursing instructor and is one of the kindest people I have ever known. She knows this issue inside and out!! phone number deleted, please PM this information

If you have a sponsor, call them. Share what was said and tell 'em how you fell about it. If you haven't already, you will get a chance soon to process all of this in a very loving, supportive environment. Doing step work is the wonderful gift that offsets the hell of the disease. You can and you will get through this. When I was in treatment, I watched out the window to see when the Feds were coming, and they never came. The God of my understanding got me thorugh that, minute by minute, and then hour by hour, and so on... I am saying a big 'ole prayer for you and your family tonight. Tomorrow, go to a meeting and get a pocket full of phone numbers- and then USE THEM. God's peace and weclome to the sane side. You don't realize it, but you have been given a lifetime pass to peace and understanding that "earth people" never get.

I do hope you will reconsider finding a satisfying career where you will not need to meet the requirements set up for professionals. There is a reason why we are "held to a higher standard." WOW!! What a self-righteous, disengenuous thing to say. I am a recovering nurse of almost twenty years. All diverting nurses commit crimes, some are prosecuted, others are not but WE ARE NOT ANYONE'S CASTOFFS. All nurses deserve a chance at recovering their lives and their careers, provided they follow the terms of their back-to-work agreement to the letter.. Luckily, I never encountered anyone with an attitude that is demonstrated in that comment. I know this one thing to be true, I am now a manager (bet that chaps your southbound side) and a peer advocate in my state- the only nurse that I know to be clean is the one that just handed me a drug-free, random urine specimen!

Sorry, the link for HCA is www.hcahealthcare.com

List of all RB schools: http://www2.state.tn.us/health/Boards/Nursing/RN.htm I am a longtime Nashville resident. Talk to nurse recruiter at Vanderbilt, they are very creative and it is a great program, costly but I hear they can make things happen. Other advantage is that it is a great employer. I know a lot of people who work there simply to get reduced tuition for their kids to go to college. website www.vanderbilt.edu Also, HCA, such as it is, is offering full scholarships in return for 3-4 year work commitment. website www.hca.com or www.tristarhospitals.com

25 years ago when I was orienting as a circulating nurse, my preceptor put in in perspective for me on the first day. "You are the patient's sensory system while they are asleep. You get to know their individual needs by asking good questions in the holding area and reading their chart, then you watch everything and everyone that comes in contact with them from the time they go to sleep until you give report to someone else." I don't ever turn my back to the field for this reason. (I love rolling computer carts!) If a surgeon or any other member looks across the field, I am watching. It's hard for a surgeon to question a nurse's role when they have this connection to their patient. The changes that have occured in the OR relative to technical make it easier to lose your focus but nurses will always be needed if we continue to be the patients eye, ear, and nerve endings. I think nursing school gave me both the knowledge and the intuitive skills that are unique to nurses. Until better preparation come along, every OR needs at least one nurse who fulfills this task.