3rdeyeRN

So, it's been awhile since I've posted. Quick history...I live in California, received my RN license with restrictions r/t a DUI over 10 years before I applied for my license. I finally got a job 6 months after getting my license at a SNF in 2016. Fast forward to now and I have no more restrictions on my license, yay! But, I'm still working in post acute for 2 1/2 years (I wasn't able to get hired anywhere else while I had the restrictions). I've recently started applying to other jobs because I'm ready to move on and the facility I'm at doesn't pay very well. I've been applying to acute and I've even applied to hospice. I haven't had any response even though it's just been a few weeks. Am I unmarketable? 2 1/2 years is a long time to be at a SNF; is it too long? My license online also now says prior discipline. How does that affect me? Will I be an LTC nurse forever? My career feels stagnant. Please give me some advice!

Hi, So I did finally get a job 6 months after being licensed. It's at a SNF and it really sucks, but it's the only place that would hire me. What I mean by it sucks is that it's completely overwhelming to be a new grad and be responsible for the care of 25 to 35 patients. I never take breaks other than my 30 minute lunch because I won't finish my work by the time I have to give report to the night shift. We are often short handed, get new admits within the last 1 to 2 hours of my shift, and I often work 15 hours because of having to carry out orders and chart (by hand) after my shift is over. I've been contacted by HR recruiters at hospitals and I've gotten a horrible response. I had an interview with one even after I disclosed my probation. It was brought up by the manager interviewing me and once I explained my situation I was told to reapply when my probation was completed. It was really heart breaking and I had to muster up the courage to get up, shake everyone's hands and tell them thank you, then walk out. I have all of the stipulations up to completing the mental and physical evaluations. I passed them, so I didn't have to do the chemical dependency conditions. At work I have RN worksite monitors, I report to the monitor that's working that day at the start of my shift and after breaks, I can't float, my shifts must be scheduled at least a day in advance, I can't work OT unless it's after my shift to complete my work (I can't come in to work extra days that would put me over 80 hours), I have independent access to narcotics and if any are wasted then it needs to be witnessed. My employer submitted monthly performance evaluations for the first 6 months and now it's only required quarterly. This has probably been the biggest challenge I've had to face in life. The whole process has been mentally and physically draining. It's upsetting when all of my classmates are working in hospitals making a decent living and I'm stuck working somewhere that I can't realize my full potential as a nurse. At this point I'm able to petition to modify the probation terms, so I'm trying to gather supporting evidence because it will require going to a hearing. I'm hoping that if I can get the supervision requirements reduced and the no floating lifted it will open up more opportunities for me.

Hi bruin2010, Sadly, no. I've been licensed for 6 months now and no job. I've interviewed a lot and was even extended several job offers, but once probation is brought up things go south. It's really discouraging. The only way I'll ever get off probation is if I work as a nurse for at least 6 consecutive months during the probation period.

I have been kind of chronicling my experience with the California Board of Registered Nursing and my licensing battle with them for about a year now. I was finally licensed in a couple months ago and was able to be ruled out of participating in the BRN's treatment programs (random samples, support groups, rehab, etc.), however, I'm still on probation for 3 years unless I meet the requirements (working at least 24 hours a week for 6 months as an RN, turning in my reports on time, not violating any terms, etc.). My issue is that I haven't been able to find a job :'-( I have literally applied to every job anywhere and what I find most of the time is that it's required to have an "unencumbered license" or the application has screening questions regarding disciplinary actions. I've had 5 interviews since I've been licensed. I'm a really great interviewer and have never not been offered a job up until this point. I make sure to research the company's mission and core values, the specifics of the job I'm applying for, prepare questions for the employer, and I wear a really nice suit. I prepare and come to the interview very confident. So, I'm left wondering why I can't get a job and the only thing that comes to mind is my license being on probation. Since I've been dealing with this, I've felt judged, discriminated against, and mistreated by many people. I'm beginning to feel extremely defeated right now. When I started nursing school I truly felt like I had found my purpose in life and I feel really lost because I haven't been able to continue with my passion. I could really use some advice from anyone in California who's gotten a job after they started probation. Any ideas or tips would be much appreciated!

LibertyTX, That's exactly what happened to me. It was a dialysis clinic and I was told the legal team wouldn't move forward because of the supervision requirements, however, my monitor told me I won't know what the level of supervision is until I submit for job approval :-/ I almost threw up when I called back regarding the next job. I decided to just get it out before because I don't want to waste my time if they already know they won't hire me before hand. I got a good response and am going on an interview next week at a children's surgery center. I'm hoping it will be a foot in the door to pediatrics later so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I just never realized how horrible this would feel. I imagined getting my RN license to be exciting and it isn't. I feel like a criminal and I don't even want to tell anyone I'm a nurse. It's hard to be proud of my achievements with this hanging over my license. I think in addition to having no experience, what makes it worse is that because of the legal drama with the Board of Nursing it took over a year for me to get licensed. I've graduated over a year ago. It scares me and I worry that I will forget my clinical skills. Thank you so much for your input! I really appreciate it.

Hi Everyone, So, I am finally licensed now and have begun probation. Unfortunately the restrictions on my license haven't been made clear to me because I had to complete evaluations first. I don't know what level of supervision I require yet. I was interviewed for a job and the manager wanted me to come back, but their legal department got back to her stating that the supervision requirements may not be met if there's time during my shift where I'm the only RN on duty (if I need max supervision). So, for obvious reasons, they didn't hire me. I don't really know what to tell a future employer. Also, I initially assumed that the company's recruiter looked up my license before calling me since my license number was submitted on the application (there were no questions regarding restrictions or disciplinary actions). After thinking about it, I wasn't sure so I informed the manager at the start of my interview. AWKWARD. I don't think it will ever get easier to disclose, but is there a good way to do this? I really need some suggestions because it really is an awkward situation. I got a message regarding a job interview this afternoon and it made me feel sick thinking about returning the call. What do I say? Hi, I'm interested in the position and would like to schedule an interview, but I need to let you know my RN license is on probation? Please, any suggestions would be helpful. I'm really exhausted; it's been a lot to deal with as far as rehashing the past over and over and twice very intensely at my evaluations this past week. I'm so tired and want to try to make a good impression, but it's discouraging. Thanks!

Hi tootsies14, You can't start the probation requirements until everything is settled with the Board. If you do, they will NOT recognize it as completed and you will have to redo it. I took my test July 2014 and it took almost a year from that point to receive my license and start probation. I was able to negotiate the probation by having a lawyer, which is part of why it took so long. Once I signed the agreement in March 2015 it took several months to hear back from them letting me know that if I passed the NCLEX my license would post on Breeze in June and if I failed I would get a letter in the mail. I did pass and then was able to contact the probation department to meet with my monitor and begin the initial requirements of completing the Board ordered evaluations (they give you 45 days to complete them from when your license went into effect). And yes, your probation will be put on hold until you return to California. Also, you will not be able to use your insurance for the evaluations. I had to pay out of pocket. I don't know whether you can use insurance for any of the rehabilitation treatments or the random urine tests. My guess is no. My monitor let me know that if I required those it would be extremely costly and some nurses surrender their license because it's too financially and emotionally burdensome. I was able to get a "rule out" clause in my agreement, meaning that if the doctors evaluating me for the Board "rule out" substance abuse disorders then I will not have to participate in the Board's treatment programs. So, I'm not positive on the other associated costs.

Check the wording on their application. There should be info on disclosures of crimes and felonies. In California you MUST disclose any arrest, whether it resulted in conviction, has been dismissed, or expunged. I've heard that other states only require you to disclose things that are within a certain time period, etc. Your juvenile record should be sealed though…so not sure how that would work. Anyway, I say that you should still pursue nursing if that's what your passion is. You were only 13 and it sounds like it didn't involve drugs or alcohol and it's been a long time since then. So, if you have nothing else on your record and can document what you have been doing in your life to better yourself since, go for it!

Pacific College in Costa Mesa, CA has an accredited online RN to BSN program and will take nurses on probation.

Hi, When did you apply, was it after January of this year? That is when the law went into effect. I was also told the same by my lawyer. I was also told by a representative at Mr. Bonta's office that it depends on the licensing board's interpretation of the law. It essentially leaves the door open to either use the misconduct (drinking, drug use, theft, etc.) as potentially a violation of the nursing code of conduct or they could use the behavior and call it a pattern. I honestly don't know who this law will help. I did manage to get information by reading several licensing boards' (within DCA) meeting minutes, where they state that they will be forced to issue licenses to applicants who would have otherwise been denied because the burden of proof would now be shifted to the licensing board rather than the applicant, which would in turn be extremely costly for them…I passed up the opportunity to reapply after the first because I have already been waiting a year. If I withdrew then I would have to wait an additional year to reapply and could possibly be in the same situation 3 years after graduating.

…oh yeah. As far as applying early to the BRN, great thinking because it's an extremely lengthy process. However, I applied last February/March-ish and got my denial letter 2 weeks before finals and my pinning ceremony, which put a huge amount of stress on me and made the whole experience less enjoyable.

Hi Emnmsrn, I just saw the post you left on my thread about this so sorry for the late reply. I believe that you can't pay pearson vue for the NCLEX until you get your ATT from the BON. Then I believe that they verify you're approved then you get authorization from them to schedule your test. Paying early won't speed things up so I would just wait. I took my test in June or July of 2014 (it's been so long that I don't remember the exact date anymore) and I had the good pop up even months after taking the test. I won't get my official word on my license until June or something of this year. I have been having horrible nightmares that after all of this I didn't pass and have to go back to retake the test. I tried it today and got the credit card screen! I don't know if it's because it's been so long or what…time will tell I guess. Hopefully you have a much better experience with the board than I did. Let me know how things go. I'm anxious to see how the new law (AB 2396) helps out applicants with a criminal history. Good luck!!

Actually the TEAS is pretty difficult. It's been a while since I've taken it, but I remember it having anatomy, physiology, etc. The average score is like 67%…just saying...

All convictions must be reported, even if they are expunged. CA is extremely strict. You may be okay since it was just a speeding ticket/failure to appear though. Just submit a great explanation and any rehabilitation evidence like traffic courses you had to take and letters of recommendation just to be on the safe side.

On_E: It took the BON a day to sign the agreement, but they said it would take 2 months for them to adopt the settlement agreement and another month after that for my license to post and go into effect.

Hi BuckyBadgerRN, I am still waiting on licensure and I have no clue whether or not I've passed the NCLEX for sure (other than the pearsonvue trick). I finally signed an agreement with the BRN in March and was told it will take 3 months to approve it and get my license. I took the NCLEX last June and have been having nightmares that I find out I didn't pass and have to retake it! Yes…it sucks.

Do you already know who the deputy AG is that's assigned to your case? If not, you should email the enforcement department at the board of nursing (the email is posted under the "contact us" tab on their website). When I did that and let them know it had been 4 months since I appealed/got my ATT they told me that I would hear from someone within 2 weeks and they came through on the promise. First they send a statement of issues by certified mail, which you must respond to within 10 days from receiving it. The person assigned to my case actually called me before I returned it. Since you already have a lawyer the process should go by quickly. Next they will send you a stipulated settlement consisting of whatever terms they want you to abide by and from there your lawyer should send a mitigation package with any evidence of rehabilitation and a proposed counter settlement offer, if that's what you want to do (the BRN considers acceptable forms of evidence to be a recent physical, lab work, mental health/substance abuse evaluation, letters of character, performance evaluations, volunteer work, treatment programs, and education completed as outlined in their Uniform Standards Related to Substance Abuse and Disciplinary Actions which is available online if you search for it). It will take a couple days for the BRN to decide whether they reject or accept the proposed offer and whether they have another counter offer or not. Once you come to an agreement then the AG will write it up and send it to the BRN for final approval. After they approve it in another couple days, you sign it and return it. From there I heard it takes about a month for your license to be posted. I am in the process of signing the offer, so the part about the license posting is what I've heard from several other people. If you can't come to an agreement then the next step would be to attend the scheduled hearing. Hope that helps!

According to the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing, GENERAL questions regarding criminal history, such as "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" are permissible and also allow applicants to omit certain marijuana related offenses and dismissed or expunged convictions. Asking specific questions can be looked at as being discriminatory, unless it is job related, such as asking if you have a clean DMV record if your position requires you to drive, etc.

Hi Everyone, I need help. I'm in the process of wrapping up my licensing negotiations and starting probation and I need suggestions on where you have gotten the Mental and Physical Exams done. I was told that I need to choose a licensed physician, nurse practitioner, or physician assistant for the physical and that the mental health exam should be performed by a psychiatrist, psychologist or other licensed mental health practitioner. I'm wondering if people chose their primary MD, went to a place that does occupational health exams, or other and I'm not really sure on how to go about selecting someone for the Mental Health Exam. Before I came to an agreement with the BON I was seen by a licensed marriage and family therapist/registered addiction specialist and had an evaluation done and am wondering if that might me acceptable. Please any suggestions or steer in the right direction, thanks!

Hi RNoneday14, I'm really glad that I shared my story because my hope was that it would reach at least one person, so thank you for saying that I've inspired you to stay positive. I have done some serious soul searching throughout this whole process and having faith in a higher power has helped me get up each day and push on. It could be very easy to get caught up in the hurt and negative emotions about this (it's been a constant battle for me). A friend of mine told me that I'm going through this because it will make me stronger and that I can use my past experiences to help others once I become a nurse. That one day I may have a patient who IS where I was years ago and I can not only show them empathy, but sympathy. Have faith that this is part of your plan and try not to get too down on yourself when you hear from the AG. Keep us posted!

Hi Rninthemaking1, I'm not familiar with the rules on juveniles but it would benefit you to obtain a copy of your criminal history report BEFORE applying. You go to the CA department of justice website and request a copy of your own criminal history. Once online you print the form and take it to anywhere that performs livescan. It comes back really fast. That should give you a heads up if it appears on your record. It's even more detailed than the report sent to the BRN when you apply. That way you don't either disclose something potentially damaging that you don't need to or not disclose something that you should have because either situation could end up in a license denial. I believe you are required to disclose tickets other that minor traffic violations and/or over $1000. The BRN website has the exact wording on that if you go onto the applicant with criminal history section. That kind of offense, if on your record, could show a use of alcohol dangerous to yourself or others, which is against the nursing code of conduct and they could potentially deny your license or take some type of disciplinary action against you for it even though it happened when you weren't a nurse. If it does show up I would talk with a license defender. You can usually score a free consultation from them. They could at least let you know where you stand and give you pointers on how to handle your application. Hopefully it won't come to that, but starting with getting a copy of your record is the best place to start. Don't apply until you know what's on there.

Hi Darby71, They were both dismissed. One mistakenly showed up as convicted on my criminal history report and I had to challenge it. It was later corrected. I was honest with the BRN in the letter I wrote explaining the prior dismissed convictions that was included with my application. Unfortunately it wasn't enough.

Schools here do background checks as well, however, most only go back 10 years. I DID contact the BRN prior to beginning nursing and was told that I should continue with schooling. I also had several classmates with DUIs that were more recent than mine, that this whole situation didn't happen to. I don't know what they base their criteria on to issue denials and how they see one DUI different from the next, but from what I've read on the BRN website I do know that the decision to deny a license is solely up to the person assigned to review your application. It seems as though some people may be more lenient than others. I just wish that either someone from the BRN or from my school would have been honest with me and told me (at the time when I asked if I would have any problems getting licensed) about the enforcement division and that a denial/probationary license was a likely outcome. I definitely don't want to stop anyone from pursuing their dreams because of some mistakes they've made in the past, but rather encourage them to be informed before they have a run in with the CA BRN and most importantly evaluate all their options before they find themselves stuck in an irreversible situation such as a license denial (one that they will have to list on job applications and licensing applications for the rest of their lives). My biggest regret in all of this was not being educated on the system prior to applying, or better yet prior to applying to CA.

So, I have been chronicling my dreadful, never-ending battle with California's infamous BRN for about the last 6 months through the posts of others. I've decided to begin my own thread for any of you out there who may unfortunately find yourself in this horrendous situation: I have a criminal history. Long story short (and there always is one), I went through some traumatic experiences in high school, things no young woman should ever have to endure. I used some textbook, maladaptive coping strategies in an attempt to help myself along. I was stuck in the denial and isolation phase of my grief for about 7 years. Rather than get help and face my issues head on, I self-medicated and wound up landing myself a DUI at 18 and again at 23. Fast forward about 10 years and there is the ME today. A 33 year old wife and mother. I maintained an occupational license in another medical field for 6 years, working full-time while I simultaneously earned a degree in Behavioral Sciences before I entered the nursing program in 2012. I commuted almost daily once I started the ADN program. A 150 mile round trip to school, rotations, skills lab, and study sessions from the central valley to the San Francisco Bay. Being in the nursing program made me the happiest I've ever been in life. I couldn't even wait to get to my car in the parking lot before I called my mom and my husband to tell them all of the awesome skills I was able to perform at the hospital each day. I was on cloud 9 after I inserted my first NG tube, called my first code, started my first IV (the list can go on and on). I finally felt like I found my purpose in life…until 2 weeks before I was scheduled to graduate and the rug was yanked out from under me. I received a letter from the BRN stating that they were DENYING my application for licensure because of my past criminal history. I new that my application would require additional processing, but never in my most wildest nightmares did I expect this, and definitely not after being successfully licensed with another CA licensing entity. I honestly believed that because I had the charges expunged, submitted completion certificates for programs, had letters from my instructors, proof of volunteer work with children, and all of my academic achievements over the last 10 years, I provided sufficient evidence that I am a respectable and productive member of society, that has successfully rehabilitated herself. How wrong was I? I opened a certified letter from the BRN the day before Mother's Day and just 12 days before my pinning ceremony, with a big fat denial on it. My heart literally broke into a million pieces. I immediately filed an appeal. I naively thought that I could reason with them because maybe they had overlooked something and maybe this is just how things work and after further investigation I'll get my license and it'll be all good, right? This was just the start of the worst and longest 9 months of my life. All of my hard work and time spent on my education, my passion for life, was flushed down the toilet. For any of you at this point, be prepared to do some serious explaining--TO EVERYONE. You've just graduated; one of the happiest days of your life just turned sour because you're about to take an oath on stage in front of your entire family that has no clue you've actually been rejected by the BRN and it's basically all for nothing. I felt like such a liar. I can't even tell you how many times each day I was asked when I was going to take the NCLEX, when I was going to get my license, and when and where I was going to start working. I broke the news to my parents which only piled on the stress, but to those just being polite and asking innocent questions, I could only give so many excuses. "I'm studying for a while," and "I'm taking the summer off," and "I'm planning the wedding," and "It takes a while to get the results back," and "I've been having a lot of health issues lately so I'm trying to take it easy." All things that were true at the time, but you can only keep that up for so long…try 5 months. I finally had to begin full disclosure. I was tired of hiding and to be honest with you, most people just assumed that I must have miserably failed my test that I took 4 months prior. Then comes the shame. Why after all these years do I begin feeling like this young, wide eyed girl who'd screwed up yet again? It was like I was being arrested all over again. The looks, the judgement, the discrimination…maybe it was all in my head and then again maybe not. Some people look at you like dirt and others see you for who you really are and what you have to offer to the world because of your life's experiences. I finally received an accusation in the mail from the deputy attorney general handling my case about 3 to 4 months after filing my appeal, letting me know that I had just 10 days to respond to it. Mind you I had already sat for the NCLEX and was denied the opportunity to know my results (which are still being withheld as of today). I'm about 15 days away from my DIY wedding and pretty broke considering the circumstances, so a lawyer was completely out of the question. 5 days later I receive a stipulated settlement offer consisting of all 19 probation stipulations. Now, 10 days to my wedding, 5 days to all of my in-laws being in town. No one's asking about how excited we are to be getting married (as if I could even fake a smile throughout all of this). No. Everyone wants to know how my NCLEX went, when I'm going to start working and when I'm going to get my nursing license. I couldn't wait for my wedding so I could see all of the rest of our family and friends and answer yet even more questions about why I don't have my nursing license yet! I love my husband, he's a rider. I can't even imagine how he must of felt to have his wife-to-be staring back at him, looking completely devastated and defeated on what should have been again, one of the happiest days of our lives. By God's good graces we got through that day, and the next, and the next few weeks that I spent up all night trolling allnurses and other online sites trying to find any useful information regarding licensing appeals and litigation. I was so physically and mentally spent that I managed to get kidney stones and a severe kidney infection, which kept me ill for an entire month after our unforgettable wedding and fab wedding present from the BRN. After I pulled myself together I continued my quest to take back the dignity and degree I felt was stolen from me. As nursing students we are taught to be advocates for our patients and lucky for me I was taught well, because I truly became my own best advocate throughout all of this. I dug so deep into everything, hours upon hours a day until I came across a legal group that assists people in getting back into the workforce. They also took on a campaign for civil rights for those of us not fortunate enough to afford a quality legal team. A 5 second questionnaire in the middle of the night turned into a call to my cell phone the very next morning letting me know that my story was read and that there were people interested helping me. One of the conditions of my meeting was to bring in a recent copy of my criminal history report. I hurried to do this and when I received it I was in utter disbelief. I read it and saw that one of the DUIs had in fact NOT been expunged. How could this be? I'm looking right at the order for dismissal from the court! I ended up finding out that my court paperwork was not adjudicated in the DOJ system by the court erroneously!! I immediately contacted the attorney general, because this had to be the reason for the denial, right?? I forwarded my court documents right away. I was later informed that day that my settlement offer was NOT negotiable, regardless of the expungement. I took this information in stride. I had nothing to lose. I had been beaten before and have gotten back up. I still had this last ditch effort in meeting these lawyers. They were willing to help me at no cost. I had to at least try. After about a month and several more meetings and phone conferences, we decided to give this another go. I had to challenge the error on my criminal history report and clear that up before going back to the BRN. I obtained letters from more instructors, my supervisor where I volunteer, friends, family, classmates, everyone. I had a substance abuse evaluation done, which could be seen as risky, but based on the DSM V criteria I was found NOT to meet the criteria for addiction. After carefully going through the probationary terms with my lawyers, they sent a settlement offer to the BRN along with my mitigation package. It's now month 9 and I hear back from the BRN. I have to be honest; I went into this expecting the worst and with little hope for change. While they aren't willing to issue me a clear license and won't budge on the disciplinary action, which for the record I feel is a huge disservice, they were willing to drastically reduce the terms of my probation, pending that I complete an additional mental and physical examination and get cleared. While I still feel that this is completely unfair, I also feel the need to move forward and restart my life. Again. I am a big believer in things happening for a reason, and for whatever reason these challenges with the BRN are only a small part in the grand scheme of things AKA MY LIFE, which I am choosing to take back and do amazing things with.

Hi AKagan, I'm in California as well. I usually find a lot of opportunities on indeed.com, craigslist, usajobs.gov, and county websites. I don't have my license yet, but have been looking. Are you willing to apply anywhere? I've heard that new grads are hired in long term care facilities, dialysis clinics, blood banks, flu shot clinics, community clinics (like planned parenthood and other non-profits) and prisons (which actually pay a ton). My brother is a corrections officer at San Quentin and said the nurses there get treated well and are never alone with inmates. At that facility, since it's max security, nurses start at around 8000/month and go up to 10 or 11000. Also, try checking the direct website for each local hospital because some don't use job boards. I've also heard from former classmates that they've had success applying even when it says BSN required. One got a research nursing job at UCSF. If you're willing to go out of state then North and South Dakota are good options. They are building several new hospitals and the area is booming. I have around 6 classmates that moved to North Dakota and have been working since they got their licenses, they even got a couple thousand for relocation.