celesteanne

I have no issue with visitors here, as long as they play nice and don't try shaming others for their issues. I believe that there would be fewer diverters or addicted nurses if this whole topic was brought out into the light and talked about. It wasn't something that I EVER heard discussed when I was working. I believed that I was the only one with a problem and nurses who had been caught simply disappeared and were not heard from again other than the occasional bit of gossip. It needs to be talked about. Nurses need to know that there is help for them and they can turn things around before it's too late.

I agree. Labelling someone an addict may or may not be accurate. For example, what about the first or second time someone diverts? Assuming that I was not obtaining drugs outside of the hospital, if I had been caught at that point, no one could have argued that I was addicted. I had abused drugs, stolen and performed an illegal act, but until I had used enough to become emotionally or physically dependent, I was not an addict. That took a fair bit longer for me. In the beginning, I rationalized and argued that because I didn't use every day and because I never went through any withdrawal, I wasn't addicted. It was much easier to say that I 'had a problem' or that I was dependent. Over the last three years in the program, I've come to understand that psychological or emotional dependence to narcotics is, in fact, addiction. At least it is for me.

Can you go to the courts and appeal to have your old conviction expunged? That would make it disappear and the BoN would have no case.

I'd be tempted to hire a good attorney and see if there is any way the state board will change their mind. There is no way you should be held responsible for something 14 years in the past. Especially if you have remained clean since that time.

That is so frustrating to hear. I've been lucky and have not encountered people who were rude or crass about my drug use. I make it a point to attend only open meetings of AA, and I have never been told I had to identify as an alcoholic. In fact, I think that might be against the AA rules. The only requirement to be a member of AA to have a desire to stop drinking. (I have never had an issue with drinking and I've never identified as an alcoholic.) I always say right up front that I'm an addict. When I must talk and explain I find it easier to simply say I was addicted to prescription pain meds and it's technically true. No one has ever given me a hard time about it, especially since many others are addicted to both drugs and alcohol. One woman I know who was a heroin addict claims that she is not an alcoholic, but she prefers to stay clean and sober.

I don't know what the perimeters are, but you could probably google it and find out. One of my tests came back dilute. They didn't make me retest because it was the first time and I didn't know that was an issue. I drank lots because I was sitting around waiting and couldn't go. I take great care to not have a sample dilute, which can be hard sometimes, especially in the summer when it's 95 degrees out and I'm drinking lots of iced tea. Some of the folks in my peer group had suggested eating before testing. They insist that a cheese sandwich will usually help a specimen not be dilute. No clue if that is accurate, but I figure it doesn't hurt to have some food on my stomach anyway.

I've suffered from garden variety depression for most of my adult life. It manifests as lethargy, sluggishness and mental 'fogginess'. This is how I know if my anti-depressant isn't working anymore. I've had to change the med a couple of times when it stopped working. I'm not making any diagnoses here and I don't know what one should feel like on the days one doesn't take Adderall, but it doesn't seem right that one would be so extremely lethargic and foggy feeling. You might very well be addicted to Adderall, but you also might be experiencing increased depressive symptoms. This is something to discuss with your doctor and find out if there is a way you can cut back on the Adderall without feeling like you are a danger to your patients. I see no reason to alert the BoN unless some illegal activity is involved.

I have never had to test on a holiday or weekend. I'm sure there is probably a place somewhere that would be able to process a specimen, but in my state we are not expected to do so on a weekend. I think they feel fairly safe in that, as they have told us that they can detect alcohol in urine for up to 8 days. No clue if that is totally accurate, but I'd never put it to the test.

Someone posted recently that they felt a bit disconnected as a nurse at regular 12-step meetings. This is not the first time I've heard this. It got me wondering if there had been other posts about our 12-step meetings and I did a search and found a couple of threads. None of them recent and a couple had been shut down for violations of TOS. I'd like to see some dialogue about our experiences with these meetings, but I don't want to get into a situation where the terms of service are being violated. Anonymity must be protected and as the most popular 12-step program has rules against using their name in press, radio and film I don't know if this forum would be considered a violation of that, so I won't name the program. My state BoN requires one peer group monitoring meeting a week and three 12-step meetings. They are really very liberal about what constitutes a 'meeting'. We have been told that even getting together with one or two other people in recovery and spending an hour together in fellowship counts. One of my meetings is a weekly lunch or coffee with a few other ladies in recovery. We don't always discuss recovery, sometimes we simply talk about other aspects of our lives. But I am thrilled to have these wonderful women in my life. These are not other nurses, but just a mix of members from several 12-step meetings who have made connections through the regular meetings. I look forward to my time with my friends and as someone who has trouble getting out of isolation mode...it is time I really need. I've felt pretty good about my 12-step meetings and I do share at times. I have a home group that I am comfortable sharing in and while I don't always feel it's necessary to completely spill my guts about all the messy details of my history, there have been times when I have shared specifics. It's different for each person as to how much they feel like sharing and who they share it with. Some seem to feel comfortable with only other nurses or healthcare professionals, while others are fine in a general 12-step setting. My peer group monitoring meetings are small, there are just five of us and I think I am the only one who actively participates at the 12-step meetings. One or two have shared that they dislike the meetings and don't feel like they are particularly relevant to their needs. The others really don't talk about it at all. One woman shared that she has repeatedly encountered negativity from some in the 12-step meetings. She says there is a strong attitude that nurses and medical personnel should be above the temptations that others fall victim to. She has experienced shaming and disgust from some members. She attends the meetings because she is required to, but looks forward to when she won't have to and doesn't plan on continuing with the meetings. That has not been my experience and when I sense any of it I am quick to state that addiction and alcoholism does not discriminate. Some of the highest percentages of alcoholism can be found in the clergy, medical professions and the law. Some feel that addicted nurses belong in a program for narcotic addicts. I have been lucky not to run into that much, either. I stick with open meetings that include a lot of people who are both addicts and alcoholics. We were told in our monitoring peer group that the programs for alcoholics had a couple of advantages over ones specific for narcotic addicts. One was that there are many more meetings available and the another was that there was a far greater rate of recovery and less relapsing. From what I have seen, I would agree with both of those. So I'm curious how other nurses are fairing in their meetings. Do you feel like they are relevant? Do you feel discriminated against as a nurse? Are you more comfortable in a narcotic-based program or are you fine with the alcoholic-based meetings? Do you share and get involved? Do you feel like these meetings are useful in your recovery?

My state recently voted to make the possession of small doses and use of marijuana legal. This has opened a whole can of worms in relation to the workplace. The hospitals and other healthcare agencies have already made rulings that regardless of the 'legality' of smoking weed, they will not allow their employees to smoke and if anyone is found with a positive UA they may be fired. While I am not in favor of approving the smoking of weed while working or even on a work day, but I do think that most places of business are going to have to establish guidelines as to the amount found in urine that would indicate smoking within 18-24 hours of a shift. I don't know what's fair, but obviously drinking alcohol and going to work is not acceptable and yet if I were to drink while on vacation and days off it would have no relevance to my work performance and I believe that would be fair with marijuana, as well. I haven't smoked marijuana since college, many years ago, and I don't intend to, but I still believe that if they are going to legalize it, they need a different approach than simply saying that if it is found on your UA you can be fired. Marijuana is detectable in the urine for a very long time and any presence of it should not be grounds for firing.

Thank you! I will look into dialysis. I assumed they would require RNs only.

I'm not in Texas, so I can't help you there, but I hope you find others you can connect with. It's interesting that states have different requirements. I am required to meet weekly with others in my area. Everyone in the program must attend one peer meeting a week. I only know of four meetings in my area and two of them are full, containing a maximum of 12. My group is the smallest with just five of us. It should be mentioned that these meetings are held at a drug-counseling office and are led by a drug-counselor who has been through the program herself. They like to tell us that these meetings are strictly confidential and are simply to support one another through the process. However I have been told by a couple of nurses who have graduated from the program to NOT think of it as a support group, but more like a monitoring group. They insist that there is ongoing communication about our individual progress with the regional rep for the state BoN. So I just go on the assumption that what is shared in those meetings is not necessarily confidential. Additionally, I can identify with the comment about feeling disconnected in AA meetings. The focus of AA is totally on recovery from alcoholism and while the steps are relevant to drug use, as well, there is not always a feeling of open-armed acceptance that they have for fellow alcoholics. I didn't even know that there were meetings that focus on healthcare providers. I'll have to check that out. I like my home-group and feel well-accepted there, but when I attend other groups I sometimes get a weird vibe, that even though it is an open meeting and some members have both drug and alcohol issues, they would prefer an addict find an NA group.

I would be happy with that sort of thing, however the contract prohibits operating a healthcare business and it requires that I work as an LPN under a site monitor for one year. I cannot graduate from the program without working as a nurse under a monitor. The whole point of it is to put the nurse back into the acute care-type setting where she is dealing with the normal stresses and expectations of nursing. Med passes are restricted to only non-narcotic meds. I'd be perfectly happy in a job working as a nurse, med pass or not. I just want to get through this program and out the other side, so I can get a life back.

Well, I wasn't caught diverting, but I was caught thinking about it. My supervisor knew I was thinking about it and I just confessed. They recommended I self-report myself which I did, but they also filed a report. They had suspected I had a problem and they were right. I had been in denial, but I knew deep down that I was in trouble, that the problem went deeper than I wanted to admit. I have been advised not to disclose my contract and restrictions until I am interviewed. No one has said anything yet, but I suppose they could get annoyed that I didn't put it on the application. The peer group facilitator and other group members all said it was better to discuss it when interviewed. Everyone has been very nice to me when I've been interviewed, they just don't hire me. My peer group that I have meetings with is very small. I go on Monday and it must not be a popular day because there are only five of us on that day. I know nothing about any of the other groups except that they are all full except the Friday group and I was going to wait and see what day worked better for me when I start working. I never qualified for unemployment. I probably didn't push it hard enough. I filled out the pre-screening questionaire and gave up when it asked if there were any restrictions placed on my license that would affect or prevent me from doing my job. Of course, I have a ton of restrictions placed on my license: no narc passing, no overtime, no home care, no night shifts and a bunch of stuff that make it hard for places to hire me. So I assumed that with the restrictions I would not qualify for unemployment because you have to be able to apply for and accept jobs without a bunch of restrictions. I also can't take advantage of the diagnosis of drug addiction or dependence. I really didn't want that medical diagnosis when I was being evaluated and I went to great lengths to not be given that diagnosis. It was a year and a half after I was caught and the investigation begun before I was evaluated. By that time I had been completely clean and sober for a year and a half. The drug counselor who did the evaluation stated that he saw no evidence of current drug addiction, but that before and after my knee-replacement surgery I had certainly been dependent on narcotics which led to my diverting. So I lack the diagnosis of drug dependence and cannot use that to help get unemployment. I think if I had been willing to stretch the truth and maybe manipulate the system a bit, I could have managed but honestly, all I wanted to do was go hide my head in a hole until the whole thing was over. But I will definitely keep trying. Something is bound to come through. Thanks for sharing your story. It does help to know there are others to talk to who have gone through similar situations.

Hi, I'm Anne, an LPN. I'm sort of new to this forum, but not to the program. I used to post a long time ago, but it's been years, so I'm starting over. I'm halfway through my program. I'm not sure of the exact name, but I'm under contract with the state BoN for another two years. I check in weekdays to a site called affinityehealth and submit to random UAs, which add up to around 18 a year. I was caught diverting and I ended up more or less being forced to resign from my hospital job. I was reported to the state BoN and they investigated, but then a year went by and I didn't hear from them. I had assumed that my license had been restricted, but it hadn't, so I went ahead and got another job. I hadn't said anything to the new employers because I hadn't heard from the board and wasn't on any contract. Frankly I was hoping I'd fallen through the cracks and wouldn't hear from them. I'd been on the job around 6 months when I was sent the paperwork and contract by the board. I immediately went in and talked with my supervisor. I was assured that my job was safe (it wasn't), not to worry, but I had to be placed on leave until they received a copy of my contract and could see where things stood. It took a couple of months, but when they finally got the contract they decided that there were too many restrictions for them to be able to accommodate. Long story short, I have been unable to find another job, even though there are quite a few places that do work with nurses under contract. Things got so tough that I lost my home to foreclosure, my retirement is gone, my savings is gone and I'm extremely depressed. I cannot graduate from the program without working under my license for a year with a worksite monitor. I'm really scared that I will not make it simply because I can't get a nursing job and I will have spent years attending several 12-step meetings a week, a weekly peer-group meeting and doing random UAs at my own expense. It horrifies me that I might do everything I can to make things right and follow my contract to the letter only to fail because I cannot get a job. I turned 60 this year, so I know I'm up against a fair amount of age discrimination, as well as being restricted on my contract. I guess I'm just getting really discouraged at this point. Hoping for some encouragement that this will work out.

Really? That's interesting and rather disappointing. In the program I am in it is my understanding that when I have completed my contract my license will be free and clear. There will be no references to the fact that I have ever been on contract with state BoN. We were told that our records would be completely expunged and we would never have to state on a job application that our licenses had ever been restricted. It would be grossly unfair to ask someone who is halfway finished to start over from the beginning in a new state. I do know that each state has their own rules and contracts and they often are quite different from one another. For example: I live in a state that treats people in the program very well and we are not required to call in on weekends or holidays. The state to the south of me requires a call in every day, including weekends and holidays, even though a UA would only be required on weekdays. And the state to the east of me does not have a program at all. It is a rural state and they do allow their nurses to join a program in a nearby state if they are close enough to make it work for them. But it would require driving out of state for the peer group meetings. If you were going to be required to put in additional time, I would probably choose to not move until you are finished. That way it won't feel like you have wasted all that time and energy, as well as the money on UAs.

Congrats on nearing the end. It will be nice when I can see light at the end of the tunnel. I'm new to this forum, but I've been in my program for 2.5 years and clean 3.5. I still have two years to go and probably longer if I cannot find work soon. I'm one of those who has lost everything. Losing my job was devastating because along with it went everything else. The retirement plan, the IRA, the house, the good credit rating. It's all gone. Yet I am grateful for the second chance this program has given me. It is the lifeline I cling to so that I can one day get my life back and maybe some of what I have lost. However, I do understand how you could just be so very tired of it all towards the end. I wish they had a better transition period. One where fewer meetings, fewer UAs, fewer demands were expected. It would ease the entry back into life post-program. Good luck to you. Just keep setting your alarms. That's what I have to do.