Ally082

I just finished a 4 week CNA class, we did a 5 day clinical rotation in a "well respected" facility in my area. I was completely shocked by everything I witnessed. Most on day shift had 9 residents and some up to 12. They all take major short cuts and ALL have been trained to chart 15mins for just about everything regardless if it was done. This is a place where rule breaking clearly comes from the top and it trickles down. (I would bet this is how they chart where you are.) I was actually told by a CNA who has been there 20 years, that the residents are lucky if they get, "face and A$$" after asking how they give bed baths and mouth care to that many people. It was eye opening how understaffed they are and how it's just generally accepted, especially by Medicare and they state actually. Everyone knows what really goes on. I was told to basically forget mouth care as its lowest on their priority list and you do the best you can with everything else. I honesty don't know if I can work as a CNA in LTC, I'm not even certified yet and I'm already guilt ridden. So it's not you at all, it's the nature of the job. I had 1-2 patients assigned to me and I absolutely respect those who have 10+, its just not easy.

I need to give a quick, non-formal presentation to a class of CNA's on Schizophrenia/paranoia in the elderly. The last topic is what I need help with, which is tips on CARE-(How can a CNA help?). Also tips on what not to do or say can be helpful. ***They are aware that most CNA's will not generally have psych patients, this is for general education on the topic to raise awareness of mental health conditions and prepare them for the possibility of a schizophrenic resident/patient they are closely caring for. Examples I came up with are helping to manage medication side effects to reduce non-compliance, (observe and report skin changes like rash or scratching; dry mouth or constant coughing). Also do not challenge their perception of reality, offer support to build trust. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

You should create a new topic or submit an article to raise awareness for this. It's a very important issue, thank you for sharing!

Congrats on Passing! I would like to know about that too. I'm going to look into it as well and if I find anything out, I will reply here.

My younger sister is an MA and would never refer to herself as a nurse. Actually she would correct patients if they thought she was a nurse because she never wants to be accused of misleading people. It's not normal that they are not following the clearly defined rolls that come with their title but if the doctors won't manage their staff properly you won't be able to do much about it. Stay until you find something else. I can't believe that anyone would take a risk like escribing meds under someone else's name but especially an MA? Wow! Sooner or later a pharmacist will call to question something and I guarantee you if they find out an MA or lay person sent an rx to them to be filled without the doctors knowledge they will report it. I guess some people don't think it's a big deal if you have some experience in a field but it is insulting to those who earned the official title. I know a girl with a HS diploma who worked in a daycare for years and tells people she is a teacher! I cringe when she is introduced to people who have a teaching degrees and she continues to claim "teaching" as her profession.

. I watched my boyfriend and his team of IT guys who were only hired with AS or AA degrees + certifications lose every opportunity to advance their careers to their Penn State BS interns. It's devastating to see the sheer lack of respect from corporate. The advances degree push is a societal problem that is hurting the most experienced and valuable people in the workforce. I want to say it's the same scenario but it really isn't now that I think about it, he was never forced to get a BA...encouraged (they would reimburse him) but not forced. Now that he refuses, he can't get any real promotions because they instituted a requirement for a minimum education of BA/BS and MA/MS for all positions. Thinking back on it his job was never actually in jeopardy like some nurse's jobs may be. I do get why this is so detrimental to nursing. These policies are hurting everyone in some way, no one wants the debt of the BSN but we don't have a choice anymore. The reality for people just starting out is: No BS/BA degree = No Job and/or unemployment line. It's tough out there, people are so desperate for jobs so they will take on the debt. You all bring a lot of perspective to the discussion regarding the policy driven dilemma in nursing. It's also eye opening to read some of the comments about education but what bothers me is if no one is treating ASN nurses this way on the floor, why are some BSN nurses getting backlash on the floor? The OP is saying nurses have to deal with the "sneers" and this backlash, what's up with that? Most people I know in nursing work well together and this isn't the norm. It's just an attitude that is noticed more recently and there seems to be a trend in some places. Sometimes it seems like when people try to vent about it they are told it must be them...not necessarily.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should gain experience, start at the bottom and work their way up the career ladder. I agree that shortcuts to management will lead to nothing good but I don't think that most people who earn a BSN are walking around calling nurses who have an ASN "incompetent". If that actually happened to anyone that's shocking. I just don't know any BSN or MSN nurses that would say these things, they respect people because of work ethic not what degree they earned. Do most people feel this is generally a management attitude or is this actually happening with your peers?

It's terrible that experienced nurses are being treated this way but I think the OP's observation is that some of the new grads and students are being treated unfairly, no... hated for this and blatantly discriminated against in certain circles. At least that's the way it looks to many people. It's breeding toxic work environments in some cases and discouraging the future generations of nurses. I'm sure many will say they could care less, so are those people admitting there is a bias against new grads (BSN), students etc.? These trends are happening to the workforce in many industries across the country. My friends and family in IT, teaching, Pharma etc. are going through similar situations with education/promotion. Outsourcing management positions to people who have no experience in their field. Then these managers implement change that just doesn't make sense. They should be promoting from within but they don't. It's wrong. However these fields don't seem to have the same attitude towards interns ( students) that bedside healthcare jobs do....why? I honestly don't understand, we just want to learn and help. I have so much respect for nurses, it's just hard to understand why those we look up to the most have so much contempt for us. ~Work hard. Be kind. That is all.~

I just looked back on this post and realized you would have completed your program by now. Hoping everything worked out well for you! Good luck with job hunting.

I ended up with a B in A&PI and Chem 102! Although, my plan above didn't work out the way I wanted. I had trouble sleeping because I was so stressed out about finals but I managed to pull it together.

I seemed like the fat jokes were starting, which was upsetting. I already replied to Brandon that I understand he pointed out a "fat pun" from your post and then continued on with other fat puns to be funny. I acknowledged that he said it was a harmless joke after the fact. Several people understood what I was saying about how it's wrong to make fun of or discriminate against overweight (obese, sick, old, young, tall, short, skinny etc.) people if you are a healthcare professional, because they personal messaged me to agree with me. Now, Brandon didn't mean it that way so unfortunately my point got lost and started to derail this thread. I hope this clears it up and we can move on from it.

Brandon Thank you for explaining when you didn't have to. You have been very civil and I did notice your "serious" post and liked it. You say it was harmless and I believe you, you noticed something funny and pointed it out, fair enough. It just came right after a bunch of serious posts and some very ignorant ones before you. The whole fat nurse thing got to me, then Esme12's post made me feel really bad, then all the sudden there were fat jokes..from a guy..I snapped. Part of my comment was a general statement about an observation I made regarding the negativity in some of these threads, which should have been more clear and made separately. It just seemed like one pun, led to the next which was about to open the door for more harmful fat jokes. I understand now, you weren't encouraging or instigating fat jokes.

Another one who condones making fun of overweight nurses, patients and student bashing. Have you not seen the many posts before this filled with upset comments by those who think it's malicious to make fun of fat people? How can anyone write facetious comments about people's weight especially after reading comments like Esme12's? It's difficult to learn how intolerant and cruel some people can be, IMO some people take it way too far, even for a forum such as this. You wont say anything to the poster earlier who called people out for making fun of their patients, you never speak up when threads get heated and people put each other on the spot (I see it all the time) but you choose to put ME on the spot and in a very personal way....why?...because you have a history of picking on students. The hypocrisy of your inflammatory and presumptuous comments about how I "feel" or what YOU think my intentions are don't surprise me actually. It's been made known in many other threads that certain people want students to know their place here. You don't think everyone notices how negative the comments are toward students? It's been clearly stated, more than once just in thread alone, that I'm not entitled to my opinion because I'm a pre-nursing student. MANY other posters and students have complained about the aggressive, unpleasant and negative tones of some of the posters in this thread and in others. Do you EVER have anything positive to say...ever? The only people trying to put parameters and boundaries in place are people who discriminate against others based on how they look and their education status etc. By the way I don't think a post about "one's look" requires a nursing degree to comment. You said it yourself, " You can take the word "nurse" out and substitute ANY profession. I never jump into topics that are above my level of training and I always make it clear that I'm a student with experience in other healthcare industries but not a nurse. Interviews are a pretty general topic if you ask me, but what do I know I'm just a pre-nursing student who worked for several years in a busy, difficult and demanding psychiatric hospital in a major city, while holding a second part time job, taking care of a sick parent and a household all at once. I know what hard work is and I know what sick patients can be like. It's apparent you don't worry about what others think or feel for that matter but I do care about people's feelings and I think some of stuff said here today was despicable, rude, ignorant and hurtful. I'm not an egotistical person, I don't get my kicks from making other people feel bad about themselves and I promise you when I am a nurse I wont be ganging up on students. I hate when things get off topic like this so I wont comment anymore in this thread, maybe it's time for students to start a new topic about all the discrimination they have to endure.

I have to tell you, there are many students on here and the general public that stumble upon this site who are shocked by the insensitivity of people who claim to be nursing professionals. Where I come from if you choose nursing you know and act like it's your job to be a compassionate advocate for the suffering in your community. Not find a way to make fun of them every chance you get. Stay classy AN.

I agree on both counts. I'm in a researching mood tonight, can't sleep I have and A&P I final coming up, oy vey. So anyway, I found these two articles that basically say BMI is a tool that can be used to help predict potential health risks but it doesn't mean that those health risks will actually develop. Everyone's body baseline, genetics and "best weight" are different. How Accurate Is Body Mass Index, or BMI? Forget BMI. Do You Know Your 'Best Weight'? - US News Final thought: It's possible for the same person to have a BMI of less than 25 with no health problems go up to a BMI of 40 and still not develop any health problems. Actually it can be a health risk if said person were to lose weight too quickly to get back down to the 24.9 BMI. I've seen it too many times, gallbladder removals because of extreme dieting and drastic weight loss. Not the ideal health scenario to be in but hey at least they will be at the lower BMI