Jetman

Hey everyone. I am starting school this January and I'm a little worried about being able to borrow enough money to pay for school AND to live on. My wife is a nurse also but will be probably not be able to work as we have a young son to take care of also. My question is, what is the max amount that you have borrowed per year to attend school. The program will cost ~$33-$35 thousand total. I figure $20-$25 thousand more a year will be needed to live on. This is overestimating our expenses but anything left over will just go back to the loans when I graduate. Any help will be appreciated. Jetman

i stand corrected, thanks for the info. jetman

Rocuronium is a paralytic, not a muscle relaxant. We use these drugs in the ER for rapid sequence intubation and believe me, they will make the patient stop moving, breathing, etc. Flexeril is considered a muscle relaxant.

I have seen almost the same thing on the MD board about CRNAs. My initial post really didn't come out the way I meant it to. It is really more about respect for fellow human beings. I've worked with some great doctors and some real jerks. I've seen good nurses totally humiliated and talked down to by those jerks and nothing done to them because of their MD. I believe AAs deserve respect for a job well done, just as a CRNA or an MD would deserve it. If AAs are killing patients off left and right, then absolutely, let's address the situation. I don't think AAs are a threat to CRNAs in any way and at this point in time, there seems to be an abundance of jobs for everyone. So why talk bad about them. In the end, what does this discussion matter anyway. What really matters in life is the relationship we have with our family, our friends, and our God. Having MD or CRNA on your tombstone does not make you a better person in life. Respectfully, Jetman

Sandman, I agree that with all things being equal, the experience gives the nurse the edge. I just don't agree that AA's can't possibly learn hemodynamics and drips etc. while going to anesthesia school and practice at a level of a CRNA upon graduation. You state "slack healthcare background admission standards are an insult to the complexity of anesthesia and make the AA profession as a whole questionable as far as safety is concerned". This is just speculation unless you have studies to back up your claim. In fact, I checked the AA website www.anesthetist.org and found this: "AAs have long been recognized for their impeccable safety records. A recently-concluded four year data review at the University Hospitals in Cleveland, Ohio, comparing the safety records of AAs and Certified Registered Nurse Anesthestists (CRNAs) concluded that the two are on equal footing, saying, "Complication rates were no higher for AAs than CRNAs." The Medical Center conducted the research over four years (1999 - 2003) and measured more than 46 thousand cases involving AAs and CRNAs (23,000 cases each). This was an unbiased comparison because the medical center trains both AAs and CRNAs." Sandman, I do appologize for comparing your post with that moron on SDN. You obviously do not have the same view of AA's as he does of CRNAs. Laughing Gas, really not sure what your problem is unless it's an ego thing. You can call me a "troll" and a "nobody" if it makes you feel better about yourself. Jetman

Wow Is it me or does this sound exactly like the thread over at the Student Doctor Network, http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=83245&page=2&pp=30&highlight=crna. I just spent the last 20 minutes reading it and getting totally pissed at the way some of the posters talked about CRNAs. Now I'm reading this and thinking what's the difference? Read what ravanbj says on SDN and tell me if this doesn't sound familiar: "As long as CRNAa realize that they are NURSES not MDs, that's cool with me. I don't mind using them as little worker ants to do all the boring stuff like charting, appy cases, setting up the room, etc.. Whatever makes my life easier. I guess that's the reward for all the years of HARD work --> Having Nurses to help out with the easy mundane stuff. As long as we get the difficult challenging cases. And as long as CRNAs allow me to run multiple rooms and pad my wallet I am cool with it. Yes they make about 100k, but that is the limit. They reach a glass ceiling in their earning potential, while MDs the sky is the limit. I know people pulling >800k a year, and that is with th ehelp of CRNAs working like busy bees to help out. So relax, it's kind of nice to have CRNAs around (just like pilots have air crew to help out, they are a team but the pilots are still the captains). Just remember ALL MDs, make sure you keep the checks and balances system alive, ie do not let CRNAs take any more power than we want them to have." He has more idiotic ramblings in the thread, but I won't post them. My point is just because someone does not get a BSN and have 1yr critical care experience does not mean that they start life as an anesthetist at a disadvantage to anybody else. I don't know where sandman1 went to college but 4yrs of healthcare education is misleading. I had 2 yrs of prereqs (Chem I, Microbiology, Anatomy, Physiology, plus history, english, economics,etc) and then 2 yrs of actual nursing courses. I learned more my first 6 months of actual nursing than in school. I now have 4 years ER experience and have in the last 3 months started in the CVICU. ER did little to prepare me for CVICU and CVICU isn't going to turn you into an immediate CRNA god. I was accepted to the January 2006 class for NA with only 3 months CVICU experience. That tells me it isn't the holy grail that some people believe it to be. It is good to be familiar with Swans, A-lines, hemodynamics, etc., but this isn't stuff that can't be learned and hardly takes a year to understand. Whatever route you choose, you should just strive to be the best that you can be and get as much out of you education as you can.

The ER I work uses Ativan 1mg, Benadryl 25mg, and Compazine 10mg IV for migraines. Narcotics are rarely given. This seems to work very well.

Your facility needs the pyxis system. No locked doors and very easy access to all the meds we use in the ER. Jetman

I had my interview yesterday with the Nurse Manager first and then with a few of the nurses in the CVICU. Both asked, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?". Had to be upfront and tell them that I was planning on CRNA school, but that I wanted to make sure I was ready first (financially, GRE, CCRN, any needed classes, etc.). This would mean that I would probably not be applying for 2006 but possibly 2007. Not sure if the whole CRNA thing turned them off to me or not. Guess we'll see. Plenty of other ICUs out there even if not CVICU. Jetman

That helps immensely. I appreciate the replies of everybody on this thread. Jetman

I realize that the interviewers ARE NOT expecting you to answer anesthesia type questions, I never made that assumption. My point was in addition to getting good GRE scores, passing the CCRN, and improving interview skills, would studying anesthisia on your own time be viewed positively in the eyes of the interviewer. I recall about a year ago that one of the schools I was looking at wanted prospective students to read Basics of Anesthesia 4th Ed. by Stoelting and Miller. I'm not sure but I believe it was Arkansas State Univ. that had that requirement. Their website has since changed and now I cannot find that requirement. Anyway, I agree that preparing for the CCRN and GRE would take precidence first. Jetman

Has anybody read anesthesia textbooks prior to APPLYING as a means of increasing their chance of acceptance by showing initiative? Did it help? Jetman

I am interviewing in 2 days for a CVICU position after working 3 years in ER. If accepted for this position, I figure I'll have to work for a full year before even applying to NA school. Does it matter if you only have 6 months experience when you apply, but that by the time NA school starts you will have the requisite 1 yr experience? Or will I just have to wait until I have at least 1 yr and THEN start applying? I appreciate any responses. Jetman

I am an ER RN, wife is L&D RN. Many discussions on who works the hardest! Jetman

Start now. No need to wait since you will be working full time and going to school only part time. You will gain the experience you need along the way. Good luck with your endeavors. Jetman

gasjobs.com Jetman

The nurses in the cath lab are making $2/hr more for specialty pay at my facility. Jetman

The AF will take nurses right out of school. You will first attend COT (Commissioned Officer Training) school which is 4 weeks. After, that is the Nurse Transition Program which will take you through an orientation period which I believe is ~10-12 weeks long, then off to your first duty station. Jetman

Just wanted to let you all know I really appreciate all of the replies. Jetman

your the exception, tom

Do you get a differential for working in the ER? If you do, I would really appreciate if you would PM me and let me know how much and at which facility, (or a least the name of the town). I am trying to get together a proposal for the CEO at my facility. Thank you so much for your help! Jetman

How can we be viewed as PROFESSIONALS when we organize in unions that were originally designed to get better working conditions for 'blue-collar' workers at the turn of the century? Oh so the AMA isn't a UNION?? Hummm I think someone forgot to tell the DOCTORS that!! :rotfl: ****IMO, it's one or the other. Be a NURSING PROFESSIONAL -or- Be a worker in a blue-collar union job.**** This is the kind of thing, I don't understand. People in "BLUE COLLAR" jobs are PROFESSIONALS. Ever heard of Pipefitters, Plumbers, Boilermakers or Ironworkers, etc.? Each one is considered a PROFESSIONAL. I guess professional athletes should consider themselves "blue collar workers" because they all have players unions.

Unfortunately, the ability of the nurse is not rewarded at most facilities that I am aware of.

As you can see, I haven't had much response with this thread. I graduated nursing school with a guy who was getting his BSN through the Navy. They paid his tuition and full salary just to go to school. He spent 14 years enlisted on a submarine so this was going to be a good for him to spend more time with his family. We both have been nurses now for 3 years, both working in an ER. I've talked to him a few times since graduation and the differences I've ascertained are: 1. The military utilizes more ancillary staff. In the ER where I work it is total patient care, plus much of the time I'm ordering lab, answering phones, and getting water for family members. I do not mind doing such things, it's just that it takes away from patient care time. 2. He tells me the nurses are well respected by the doctors. When you've been in long enough you'll actually outrank some of them. On the civilian side, some of the doctors I've worked with actually respect nurses for what they do, some see nurses as just their assistants, and some see nurses as doctor wannabees who were too stupid to get into medical school. Fortunately, there aren't that many of the last one. 3. Depending on where you live, military pay is better, at least in the long run. I have 3 years experience as an ER nurse and make 17.91/hr which is about 35-36K/yr. My first year active duty would be $10,000 MORE PER YEAR! I have 12 years of Air National Guard time so the pay is a little more than someone with no experience, but if you look at the pay charts you will see that the military has considerably more raises. You start at O1 less than two years base pay=$28,123 plus the tax free housing allowance which would add between $8,000-10,000 per year plus the tax free food allowance which is ~$2,000/yr for a total of $38,123-40,123. That is more than I make with my 3 years experience. I'm pretty positive in two years you make O2 and in two more year you make O3. So, in 4 years you become a Captain (I'm looking at Air Force), you would be O3 over 4 years. Let's look at the pay chart. Base pay=$50,017 Tax free housing=~10,000-12,000 Tax free food allowance=~2,000 for a total of ~$62,000-64,000/yr. Not too bad. http://www.military.com/Resources/ResourcesContent/0,13964,49020,00.html 4. No contest, benefits are better in the military. Free medical, dental for you. Low cost life insurance, ~$20/mo for $250,000 coverage. Pension at 20yrs. Free gym memberships. Most AF bases have golf courses. Many restaurants, car dealerships, etc., give military discounts. 5. Educational opportunities. The military will send a certain number of qualified nurses each year to different schools for CRNA, FNP, Nurse Midwife, etc. with full pay and benefits and at no cost to the nurse. My hospital is reimbursing ONE er nurse to get her CNS. They said it wasn't in their budget to do it for anybody else and that this was just a "trial" case. In the military, there is also a tuition assistance that pays 75% of the members tuition up to a certain amount each year (not sure but I think it pays ~$250/credit hour for graduate level courses). 6. Finally, you do have to love the military lifestyle because it is different than civilian. In my experience, the military as a whole, is a family. Sure, you won't be spending 30 years in one place developing relationships, but the friends you have in the services are friends for life. It is truly amazing as you travel around the globe, where and when you'll run into an old friend that you had at so-and-so base. Well, I've rambled on for awhile now. I hope this helps and good luck with your studies. ps Talked the nurse recruiter for the Air Force today, $15,000 sign on bonus. Jetman

I am an RN working in an ER that utilizes the services of NPs alongside MD's. NPs are NOT working in the same scope of practice as me. They order and interpret lab work, xrays, etc. They prescribe medications. They do not start IV's or change bedpans. Their scope of practice much closer to that of MDs than RNs. They may not be MDs but it sounds like medicine to me.