km05

Physically, is nursing really a viable option at 40? I know 40 is not that old and that nursing can be a great field, but when I read all the horror stories I get worried. Currently, I’m working two jobs: a full-time office job and a part-time retail job. I’m feeling rather creaky and sore even from just working an extra 15-20 hours a week in retail (often 20 hours a week, meaning 60 total – and during the Christmas season, 65 total). Even though I take a multivitamin and calcium supplements every day, I really feel the effects of working retail (due to all the shelf-stocking work - lots of bending down to reach the lower shelves, for example; closing-shift 30-45 minute vacuuming of the store fairly late in the evening after a full day of work, etc.) Don’t nurses usually start out younger and then leave the field eventually, by around this time (40-45 yrs. old) – the same time I’d be starting out in nursing? (I’ve read there’s a high attrition rate in the field.)

Sure, I know that - but having no professional experience yet as an accountant, I foresee applying to the U.K. in the profession in which I'm already working. But that does remind me to ask: Are evening training programs in the U.K. as prevalent as they are in the U.S.? I had read that there's not quite as many evening training programs in Europe as in the U.S., but it would seem there'd be plenty in England.

Australia's Skilled Worker Program: http://www.immi.gov.au/migration/skilled/ You'll see on the Skilled Occupations List (http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/1121i.pdf ) nurses get what seems to be the maximum number of points awarded for occupation, which is 60. Canada's Skilled Worker Program: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/ They don't seem to award points by occupation like Australia does. My impression is that if you have a college degree and $10,000 in the bank (the financial requirement to show that you can support yourself in Canada while looking for a job), it's relatively easy to get into Canada - after the usual year or so of paperwork, of course.

I'm fairly new to this subject myself (of moving overseas, possibly as a nurse), but I thought I should mention there's a new Highly Skilled Migrant Worker Programme in the U.K. It was just started 3 years ago. Here's a link that helps explain the program: http://www.workpermit.com/uk/highly_skilled_migrant_program.htm I'm pretty sure that includes nurses, as well. But England's Skilled Worker Program has more stringent criteria than Canada's (or Australia's, I believe) because they ask for things like awards and accomplishments in your field, etc. Still, it might be helpful to know about the program, and you might get at least the minimum number of points to qualify. There's a self-assessement worksheet that I've found online before - I think it's available at the above link. That's different from the work permits that are available in the U.K. for the usual shortage areas such as nursing and teaching. Those are employer-specific. Under a country's Skilled Worker Program, if you qualify, you can go to that country first and then look for a job; you don't need to have any job lined up first. I think that means you can also change jobs when you want to. Under a work permit, if it doesn't work out with a particular employer, I think you have to leave the country? Not sure about that though. I think that even Canada and Australia's Skilled Worker Programs are fairly new. From what I understand, only Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the U.K. have a Skilled Worker Program so far. Demographically they're all aging a bit faster than the U.S., which is why they've started to implement this kind of permanent immigration program. (Canada alone admits nearly a quarter of a million new immigrants per year, according to what I've read. The rate compared to its total population is about 10 times higher than the U.S.'s rate.)

Such as where? Just curious. Canada and Australia seem like much better possibilities than anywhere in Europe - at least, that's my impression (much higher immigration quotas, more space, more job opportunities, etc.) My husband prefers Europe because most of his friends and relatives are there. But then I started looking at Canada and Australia and found out they're probably much more viable options. (I'm not sure about emigrating or just being an international travel nurse - or accountant - for a while; I lived in mainland China a few different times for almost 2 years total several years ago, and I miss traveling and working overseas!) London and Dublin are always at the top of various 'costliest cities' surveys, so I didn't much like the idea of going to the U.K. Canada and Australia are not quite as expensive and always rank at the top of various international quality of life surveys.

Various of my husband's relatives are EU immigrants, but he isn't; he's South Asian. Which could be kind of helpful in a place such as Dubai, which is 50% Indian and Pakistani (and almost 90% international, overall).

You might want to try posting at http://www.dubaiforums.com or http://www.expatfocus.com/forums to see if you get a response. (Sorry, I don't know either - but I might be in Dubai or Bahrain or thereabouts someday, for a while, as a nurse!) Expatfocus.com is an especially good discussion forum. The Middle East one can be found at http://www.expatfocus.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=19 .

No, actually, I’m quite well aware of the immigration requirements for programs such as the Skilled Worker Program in the U.K. and Canada – so I don’t see why you’re making the assumption I’m uninformed about the immigration process. (When talking about the process being more long-drawn-out, I was referring specifically to the three years of training - vs. just two - followed by the three years of professional job experience, as I indicated in my previous post.) So, my question remains: which countries would be willing to accept new nurses with no job experience? (I'm thinking this is more likely to be a place such as Dubai, since it's a very international city/emirate with about 90% of its residents on two- or three- year work visas - but at least a year or two of job experience is probably a standard requirement there, as well.) Silverdragon: Thanks for the helpful info! But what about all the budget cutbacks in the U.K.'s NHS and the newspaper article (did you post that link?) about newly trained nurses in the U.K. being unable to find work? Is it not as grim as such articles make it sound? I'm really interested in knowing since it's London where my husband has the most relatives, and that's his top choice so far. I realize the immigration process could take at least a few years, so your suggestion to get the nursing experience while waiting on the immigration paperwork is a good one. However, I didn't know that coming from the U.K. as a U.K.-trained nurse (with American citizenship) could put me at a disadvantage if and when returning to the U.S. to work. You mentioned additional courses being required. How much additional training would then be required in the U.S.?

Which countries would be willing to accept new nurses without any professional experience? It seems that at least three years is required for foreign nurses who'd like to work in Europe. (I'm in the U.S.) What about Canada, Australia, or some Middle Eastern locations such as Dubai or Bahrain? I know it's a general question but I'm interested in living overseas at some point, partly since my husband, an immigrant, has friends and relatives in various countries and would like to live closer to them. Do nearly all other countries such as those mentioned above require a BSN rather than just an ADN? That's my impression from reading some threads in this forum. Also, is an accredited BSN program (in the U.S.) automatically "good enough" (since it would meet the three-year training requirement that seems to be in place for Canada and Europe) or does it depend on the number of clinical hours in the program? (I haven't even started a nursing program yet but am interested in doing so. I'm also wondering, though, if perhaps I should emigrate first and go into nursing later. I just thought that already being a nurse might give me more options - but it's all sounding more complicated and long-drawn-out than I expected, given a supposed nursing shortage that's said to be worse in Europe than in the U.S. I really thought that nursing would be in more demand/more marketable than my bachelor's degree from 20 years ago combined with a current 2-year certificate program in accounting, but now I'm not so sure - especially after reading about the difficulty of newly trained nurses in the U.K. to find work.)

Thanks so much for the very helpful response! :)

I have a few stupid questions (I'm just a potential nursing-school student, so please bear with me here): 1) Is malpractice insurance the same as liability insurance? 2) When you apply for this insurance, are you asked about your medical history? If so, could your cost for this insurance increase significantly as a result? 3) What are BON complaints? (I'm guessing it stands for 'Board of Nursing', but I'm not sure.)

i'm so glad you posted this thread, thrashej! when you said, "however, and that is a big however, unlike many of you, i don't long to take care of people. the truth is i don't even know if i want to," i can really relate. the list of qualities you used to describe yourself also describe me pretty well. i can be very outgoing and social at times, but i tend to be introverted. i also feel ambivalent about working directly with people all the time. in general, i like people. i can be very supportive and nurturing (my astrological sign, cancer, is the most nurturing sign of all). i have a fulfilling marriage and a few good friends. i have worked hard in the past to bring people together in various social events i have organized for volunteer groups. however, i grew up in an abusive family environment and tend to be wary of people. i also like being alone/staying to myself (studying a lot while my husband works on weekends, for example), more than i thought i would. however, i am also quite bored of secure (but well-paying) paper-shuffling or number-crunching kind of jobs. it would be nice to actually feel needed and useful, for once in my professional life! on the myers-briggs, i am halfway between being an 'intj' (the 'research scientist' type) and the 'entj' (the 'entrepreneur' type). according to the book 'do what you are', nurses have the personality type of 'isfj' (maybe also 'esfj'): somewhat similar to intj/entj, but maybe not close enough. not sure. i don't see the alternatives recommended in this thread as being suitable for me, though, because i'm very burned out on computer work. i was in the web development field for about 4 years; i liked computer work and did well in it. however, the technology was constantly changing and i got tired of that. i needed some time to go to the gym and get back into shape, and to finally have a social life again. the web field was also fairly volatile, and of course, there are far fewer web jobs these days. i considered becoming a medical lab technician, only to discover that even in a major metro area such as the washington, dc area, salaries for lab technicians max out around $40,000 (according to salary.com, which i've heard is the best resource for salary information). the maximum salary for new rns is around $60,000, with nearly everyone starting out around $44,000 - according to what i have read in other threads on this message board. (that fits fairly well with salary.com's stated median salary of $49,000 for rns.) salary is not necessarily a prime consideration for me (for one thing, i don't have kids and don't want any), but i'm not really that interested in a career where the most i could ever make is around $40,000. (i already make quite a bit more than that now!) i have read about medical technology and the rhit exam and i might consider that but i just don't know. i really am tired of computer work. i do know that chemistry and microbiology seem more interesting to me than anatomy and physiology (some of the required prerequisites for nursing school). unfortunately, the various medical programs at the local community college don't have many - if any - courses in common, from what i discovered, so i'd have to make some kind of decision before starting on even the first few prerequisites for a healthcare program. (i already have a bachelor's degree, by the way, so i wouldn't be able to get financial aid for another four-year degree. that's why i'm looking at a local community college for training - at least it's affordable!) i also have a real fear of being exposed to some nasty disease in either nursing or lab technician work. supposedly, from what i have read, around 20,000 healthcare workers per year are infected with hiv due to accidental needle pricks. someone said that number sounds too high but i'm pretty sure that's the number i read. sorry i don't have any particular advice; i'm just saying that i can relate to what you're saying and that i'm in the same boat as you are. i guess you can understand my confusion? i really would like a more dynamic and mentally challenging job than the usual desk jobs i've had in the past. i can also see that i might have the capacity to work directly with people, even in stressful environments, more than i even realize. but i just don't know. i have other options - to get back into financial analysis work, to become a paralegal, whatever - but as i mentioned, it would be nice to have a job that makes a more direct difference in people's lives, that requires scientific knowledge, and that offers so much more geographic mobility than nearly every other job on the market. any suggestions/advice from people would be much appreciated!