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Here is an excerpt from a Vanderbilt researcher: "Over the next 20 years, the federal government estimates that the demand for RN's will increase 40 percent, with the majority of this employment growth occurring in hospitals. Meanwhile, the number of older RN's is expected to peak in the year 2010 and decline thereafter as large numbers of nurses start to retire. "In the absence of a corresponding increase in the supply of RN's, further shortages and upward pressure on RN wages are likely in the future," Buerhaus said." http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/nursing/media/release31.html To expand upon something--the fastest growing segment of the population is individuals over the age of 85. The aging baby-boomers are only going to increase this trend. This is going to tax our health care system and health insurance industry alike. To deal with this problem, policy initiatives are being implemented to deal with the problem by having middle-level providers (nurse practitioners) and clinical nurse specialists handle a far greater percentage of the care previously managed exclusively by physicians. This provides patients with greater access to health care at a reduced cost (which benefits the insurance providers) = many more nursing jobs.

I am in the process of investigating various CRNA programs and have called many programs to ask about the importance of ICU experience. Surprisingly, I was almost universally told by the CRNA program directors I spoke with that the 1 year ICU experience is a requirement mandated by the AANA--not the schools. I was also told that they will primarily look at your GPA/GRE scores/evaluations to determine your eligibility for admission, and only then will they look at your ICU experience. I was told that the only time that the amount of experience comes into consideration is when 2 or more candidates are all equally worthy of admission--then those candidates with the best experience would be selected. Otherwise, they pick the students who seem best academically prepared for the program and as long as they have the minimum 1 year experience, they're in. For whatever it's worth, that's what I have been consistently told.

I would agree there ARE professions where men can be quite agressive toward one another--although I'm not sure politics and/or government is a reasonable example. It seems a bit of a stretch to me to try to suggest political adversaries maintain the same type of interpersonal relationships that co-workers do. That's kind of like suggesting that professional boxers are physically abusive to one another in the workplace.

Come to think of it, maybe that wasn't at work after all. Maybe it was my wife I'm thinking about. LOL:uhoh21:

There is one particularly interesting observation I have made regarding the differences between how men often relate to one another in the workplace vs. how women often relate to one another. When men become competitive with one another they seem to do so while observing certain unspoken rules of the game. It's as though there is some invisible line they know better than to cross. A code among rivals, so to speak. But when women become competitive--man they take off the gloves and it's fight to the death or not at all. I have on several occasions found myself dumbfounded by the extent to which one woman is willing to go to win the upper hand. Truly scary stuff. *Disclaimer--this is a very general observation and in no way was this observation meant to apply to all women.

IMHO, it depends on how things are being talked about. Most things, anyway. For example, if sex or religion are being talked about in the context of "this is what I like and this is what I don't like" then both should be taboo. But if the conversation is geared toward learning--meaning "I want to understand what is or isn't"--then I think such conversations might be appropriate. Is it not important for nurses to understand and appreciate the religious differences of the patients they treat, or perhaps the different attitudes/problems people might have with sex? Now politics--that's another story. I've not yet been able to come up with any examples of how politics might be an appropriate subject. Is that perhaps confirmation that politics is the true evil in the world? LOL

One thing I forgot to mention, Melly. I too was in your position. I owned my own business and made close to $150k annually. But I was miserable. One day my then 8-year-old son came home from school, rather despondent. He had hit the 2nd grade doldrums and had all but lost his enthusiasm for school. I proceded to lecture him regarding the importance of doing well in school now, whether he was enjoying it or not, so that he would one day be able to realize his dreams. My son soaked it all in, looked up at me, and asked, "Dad, what was your dream?" Of course, I felt like a complete hypocrite. My dream had always been to go to medical school. But I had let the daily demands of my life sidetrack me. So I thought a lot about my conversation with my son. Eventually, I worked up the courage to approach my wife to tell her I wanted to go back to school. I fully expected her to kick me to the curb. She was a stay-at-home mom and we were solely dependent upon my earnings to survive. But I was pleasantly surprised when my wife not only supported my returning to school, but said that she would go back to school with me. I ultimately decided not to attend medical school. The demands of time for doing so would have been more than I was willing to endure. I have 6 children and I do not want to miss watching them grow up in order to chase my own dreams. So my wife and I are still in school. I have 2 years left and I will have my MSN/ACNP certification. I intend to attend CRNA school following that. We live modestly, but comfortably. Surely we have made many financial sacrifices, but you can't put a price tag on the lessons we're teaching our children by our example--that one must always be true to their heart, and that it's never too late to do the right thing. Money isn't the most important thing. Follow your heart, Melly. I've not once regretted my decision.

Melly, if your calling is to help others (as well as have more time for your daughter), pay no attention to the nay-sayers. If you go into nursing and love it but the money does end up being a greater concern than you had anticipated, there are certainly ways you can increase your earning power in the field. CRNAs make well above what you were making in the IT field, and it is not all that uncommon for Nurse Practitioners to be making $80k-100k per year--or more. Do it first because it is your calling. Do it second for your daughter. Do it last for the money. But if you need to make more, you can. Just a thought--with your professional background I would think that you could go into nursing informatics. That would enable you to apply your past experience to the nursing field and you might also be able to use that past experience to earn more out of the gate. Best of luck to you! Brian

Shortly after my youngest son was born, I commenced doing what I've done following the birth of each of my other 5 children--I'd hold them in my arms and take them for a walk up and down the halls of the L&D ward and tell them all about the wonderful things they'd get to experience in life. I'd ask them if they could hear me talking to them while they were in their mother's belly and if they remembered the songs I was singing them at night--you know, a really touchy-feely Kodak kind of moment. But this particular hospital had previously had a baby abducted. Although I was walking on a secure ward (and both my son and I had matching wrist bands) I had a nurse practically push me into a corner wagging her finger in my face and telling me I wasn't allowed to take my son out of his room. I don't know if it was her aggressive posture or the fact that she was interrupting my family birth ritual that got me so hot, but I got right back in her face and told her that he was my son and I'd take him anywhere I damn well pleased. I realize she was probably hyper-sensitive due to the previous incident at the hospital, but sometimes these things go a bit far.

Just for the record, I have heard (from a civil rights attorney who is a very good friend of mine) that a corporation/board of nursing/etc. may only legally ask an applicant if he/she has been convicted of a crime. Therefore, although they may still ask about charges rather than convictions, a person is only obligated to disclose any convictions. If the employer/board of nursing/etc. refused employment/licensure based upon an applicant's failure to disclose charges which did not result in a conviction, they would be in violation of the law and an individual would have very good cause to file suit against them. I'm not giving any legal advise, mind you. But I would most definitely consult with an attorney before I listed any charges which did not result in convictions.

Don't know that I can help you much there. I used to work for Nelnet and I know that they waived all of their origination fees for stafford loans, but I do not know whether they do for their private loans or not. You can check them out at www.nelnet.net to find out.

Greetings all: I was wondering how typical it is for CRNAs to be offered loan forgiveness by their employers? Do you think this would be more commonly offered by an anesthesia group vs. hospital? If it weren't offered, would it be a reasonable request to make if offered a position? Your feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

TCRN, I guess I would first ask you if you're asking about private loans or stafford loans.

This brings up a very important point. There is a vast difference between being assertive and being aggressive. Being assertive is doing the exact types of things a previous poster mentioned--she stated her position regarding salary expectations, and she then provided research/documentation to support her position. Being aggressive would have been more along the lines of her telling administration that she knows what the position is worth, she knows what she is worth, and if the hospital was unwilling to pay her what she was worth in that position then they could just go find somebody else for the job. There is a difference between the 2, albeit a subtle difference, that may amount to little more than tone, inflection, and delivery. Yet these differences could mean the difference between being labeled a b****h or a jerk, regardless of whether you're a man or a woman.For my own part, I have nearly always found that a carefully contemplated response proves more tactful and productive than an immediate retaliatory response. Even if I might end up saying the very same thing. Why? Because if my response is immediate and expressed when I am offended or angry, my frustration is likely to be evident in my tone or voice inflection. However, if I merely say, "I'll have to think about that and get back to you," it gives me an opportunity to calm down, think the problem through, and carefully plan my response. So even if I end up saying the same thing, my frustration has been tempered so my delivery will sound much more polished and logical. There's nothing wrong with telling somebody that you need to think about something before you respond. That's not the mark of an idiot who doesn't know what to say, but rather an intelligent person who accepts accountability for their statements. Administrators and co-workers alike would much rather deal with the latter, IMHO.

Thank you, Suzanne, for taking the time to answer my questions.

I recently read a research paper that addressed some of the reasons why women's salaries tend to be lower than men's. One of the primary reasons they came up with (which surprised me because it hadn't really occurred to me) was because women are far less assertive than men when it comes to negotiating and/or re-negotiating salary and benefit expectations with their employers. According to this research article (and I wish I could remember now where I read it), women are many, many times more likely to simply accept what is offered them, whereas a far greater percentage of men will demand (and receive) more. This same article also stated that women are reluctant to use many of their employer provided benefits, such as flexible spending accounts and childcare subsidies, because they fear it makes them appear needy and weak. Pretty interesting, huh?

Bravo, Stitchie! I truly wish there were far more people who thought that way. Personally, I never quite understood how burning a bra and then donning a jock strap was any kind of victory. Here's a few tidbits of insight about us men for you ladies: Basically, we're rather simple creatures with very simple needs. Not altogether that different from an amoeba, actually. Feed us, flatter us, tolerate our flatus, and we tend to remain fairly content. But you're confusing us. We want to please you but we've lost track of what it is you want from us. You want us to be strong, but then we risk being labeled insensitive. So we try to be more sensitive, but then we are told we're being wimps. Don't forget, we have a short attention span and we give up easily. LOL In all seriousness, I do wish women would embrace their delightfully exquisite charactersitics rather than attempting to suppress them. It is those very traits, after all, that make them who they are. I am truly envious of so many of those characteristics (although I'll pass on menstruation). And didn't we already have a female President? I cannot recall that Hillary blew up any foreign lands in a fit of cattiness.

Okay, but here's my question. Am I going to have trouble finding a position as a CV RNFA after I graduate? Or would you think that perhaps I might make decent connections through my training at Vandy? And what would you guess the pay would be like? Would you think I could have decent earnings potential if I was also handling patient workups in the office and doing rounds at the hospital?

Oh yes, I definitely have OR experience--including CV experience. I was a Navy Corpsman and later worked as a civilian surgical tech and OB tech. Masks never bothered me. It's the standing in one place for hours on end that got to me at times. But it had to do more with boredome than discomfort. I honestly don't think it would bother me nearly as much if I were doing something instead of standing there waiting for someone to ask me for a retractor or a needle driver. Let me in there coach! I can do it! hehehe Errrr, gauze please, I think I just dissected the patient's aorta.

I believe it is quite normal to be so turned off by a nursing home experience during clinicals. Aside from the foul smells and deplorable conditions, one also has to work with patients who have multiple chronic conditions and very bleak prognoses. That too can be very hard for many people to deal with. It's a lot easier to provide care for an ill person when your care is helping to make them better, rather than merely making a patient comfortable until they die. I have witnessed many nurses get frustrated in this situation because they feel as though they are not making a difference. What I did during my nursing home clinical rotations that helped me tremendously in coping with the situation was to first stop and put things in perspective. I looked at these unclean and combatant patients and realized that they were somebody's mother or father, or somebody's grandmother or grandfather. They had given so much of themselves to this world, they had so many interesting stories and recollections stored somewhere in their minds. They once held babies close to their breast, cooing and playing with them. They once guided and nurtured their children about the ways of the world. By doing these things I was able to see these elderly as loving people rather than difficult patients, and this allowed me to do something I never thought I could do in a nursing home--I made a difference. I would work hurriedly through my nursing duties so I would have more time to just sit and talk to these patients. And the patients who couldn't talk, I would just sit and hold their hand. You would never have caught me exchanging idle chat with my classmates when I wasn't busy with my nursing duties. I was with my patients. Not only did it make my days go very quickly, but I was amazed at some of the transformations that took place in some of these patients. Even the most difficult of patients warmed up to me--the ones that throw bedpans and intentionally dump their urinals on the floor. They didn't do that during my shift. The ones that wouldn't take meds without a fight, they took meds from me without objections. And several that seemed completely flat in affect, smiled when I would walk into the room. These things didn't make the smells go away, and they didn't make the prognoses any rosier for these patients. But by humanizing the experience it not only made my nursing home experiences more bearable, it made them one of my fondest memories of nursing school. Maybe it could work for others, or maybe I'm just warped in some way. But I figured I'd pass on my experiences just in case it might help someone else with their nursing home experience.

I do appreciate the kind words of support. After re-reading my post, however, it just wasn't something I was very proud of. Granted, it was 18 years ago and I was very young. But still, I allowed my emotions to get the better of me and I acted in a way that I could not imagine myself acting today. Yes, he had it coming. But I'm not sure that excuses my actions. If anybody wants to see the post that badly I have no objection to it being e-mailed to them, I really just don't want to see it on the board. Of course, I can't e-mail it because I no longer have it. I deleted it permanently.

Vandy is competitive? Heck, they let me in so I figured they'd take just about anyone. LOL Now, about that $40,000...that's going to be a bit of a problem.

Removed because it just didn't sound very nice.

I will be doing ACNP. I also have an interest in ER work, but I am vacillating between ER and cardiothoracic 1st assit. If you're unsure of what you want to do, exactly, FNP is a more general specialty that would probably give you more options. It might be easier for an FNP to work ER than it would be for an ACNP to work family practice.