R2MD

You take 1 example of bashing and turn it into the whole board is like that!!! That person was reprimanded and the whole site rules changed because of that one quote......if you read a little further you can see that all of the PAs on there told him he was wrong! Fine you dont have to visit the site but dont discourage others from doing so. If you think the board is so bad and you want to steer them in the nursing direction. Let them go over to the board and make their own decisions. It is not about which career choice is better but about which one is suited for each individually. You know what.... I dont have enough time to sit on here and pick out all of the negative nasty things said about PAs and physicians on this board....that could take over a week, It is not worth my time or effort to do so!!! O.K. and Max calling PAs "trailers" Oh I would expect that from a 22 year old student. Max, I would love for you to punch someone in the jaw! It certainly would serve a dual purpose. That would make one less idiot in nursing to give the rest a bad name. Also would show the person bashing others that they should shut up and stop being an idiot! I am done with this topic. Some of us here and on the other boards have learned to get along. I suppose the mature educated bunch. Good Day...I'm done you can call me whatever floats your fancy boat!! You two are just as bad as the person that posted the bashing comment on the other board. Sorry to see you stoop to that level.

Oh one last thing......I dont think that you would like me to confuse you with the nursing assistant. Why wouldnt the PAs seek to educate regarding their profession. Food for thought!

Absolutely false. I visit that forum regularly and this is not true. If you go over there and bash PAs that is a different story, however that board is definately more civil than this board. They know the difference between healthy debate and honest questions!!! Answers are educated and the mentality is not to bash and fight at all. I would suggest that you do visit that site. Also there is a new site www.clinicianforum.com which was created as a sister site to www.physicianassistant.net to share ideas etc. with nurse practitioners. Which by the way...WE all get along fine!!!!

Oh I completely agree! I just wanted to correct the notion that one of the posters was making that MAs/PAs are basically the same. As we know not true. Also wanted to make the argument that the PA programs still circulating that are Associates Degree are by no means equal to the education a MA receives. We discuss this all of the time on our midlevel forum. We all think that there should be solid standardization of both programs NP&PA so confusion and arguments cease to exist. We have finally (I think) come to terms and agree that both of our programs have kinks that need to worked out and for the integrity of both programs (NP&PA) we push for this to be done. Just think about it who wants lousy PAs and NPs. It gives all of us a bad name unfortunately! Thanks so much for your input and understanding that by now way was I intended to bash the NP profession.

Just a note....I dont know of one drug rep that makes more than a physician and I know many of them!!! Sure some of those higher up in the food chain do but not your run of the mill drug rep...... Most people do not make it to those positions. Also you need to consider that the pharmaceutical industry while still great and thriving has overall slowed down in the recent years and have done rounds of layoffs. It is not as easy to find and maintain these jobs and when you lose your job you do not have anything to fall back on unless you have a functional degree or healthcare degree. I am not trying to continually argue with you nursefirst as I have rebuted another of your comments. I just want those whom you are giving advice to know the other side and from someone whom has a great deal of experience with these situations. Dont get me wrong the pay for a pharmaceutical rep is good (comfortable) but they dont make more than a physician and I have only met one of them with a degree less than a bachelors degree. You basically need at least a bachelors degree seriously! I know some Nurse practitioners and PAs that have gone that route because of burn out from clinical practice. Their compensation is comparable. (50s-60s) Some NP/PA make much more than that however. I know of many PAs making 6 figures or very near. Also I do not know a physician the makes under 120K/year

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A Maters degree in nursing (MSN) is not equal to M.S. or M.A. as a PA. Those with an MSN are not automatically nurse practitioners. There are many different specialties and subcategories with MSN.....can be nurse practitioner, CRNA, businesss/administration, clinical nurse specialist etc. etc. I am trying to say that all Masters degrees are not created equal. Also please check your facts regarding the physician assistant profession. I think that you will find that only a very small percentage hold a degree less than a Bachelors. The majority of PAs according to the recent numbers show more most PAs more than 50% hold masters degrees. These nondegree and associate degree PAs make only a fraction and that does not make them incompetant. This goes back to the foundation of the PA practice and history that you can read about if interested. These associate degree programs that now exist often require at least 65-70 college credits prior to entrance and they award you with a associate degree after going through another rigorous 24 month continuous full time program. Personally I would never attend one of those programs I want credit for what I earn. If you do the math that is more than the amount of education some nurse practitioner programs offer and grant a Masters degree. Associates, Certificate, Bachelors, Masters prepared....same board! I originally received a Bachelors degree and since have attained a Masters degree. I had 70 prerequisite college credits (the same prereq. required for med school plus countless hours of medical experience) I then went through 24 months of FULLTIME PA school consisting of class M-F and sometimes Sat. ALL DAY and I mean all day sometimes until 9 at night pending lecturers schedules for 12 full months. I had 21 credits at a time mandated (prescheduled) Then 12 full months...everyday clinical rotations. Not just 40 hours per week either. We worked on the residents schedules. After all was said and done I was awarded a Bachelors degree which as you can see was more than most go through to earn a Masters degree! I know a girl now going through NP school and it is all distance based. I really dont understand that concept but I am not here to do any questioning. I am here to correct the false ideas about PAs that circulate by people who have no idea what they are talking about! It is complete ignorance to compare PAs to MAs! It is the quality and quantity of the education not the degree granted. You can basically get a masters degree from a cracker jack box these days!!!!! If you have any further questions about the PA profession, I would be glad to educate you and provide you with clear evidence of the competancy of the programs!

I really dont want to argue about this but I have a few more things to discuss in regards to your comments: *what is the studentdoctor site??? I am not quite sure what that is and I certainly am not from there????? *You were offensive by generalizing PAs. Now if I came on here and said that I have worked with 3 lousy nurses therefore I am not sure there are any great ones out there and I am going to doubt every nurse I ever work with (which by the way this is not the case). I would get eaten alive on this site! Please think about what you are saying and why I said it was offensive... but it is only your opinion and your right to it. It is not going to change the fact that you still have to take orders from them. Everyone knows that there are Competant excellent PAs so it is not worth arguing over. Enough said! * The reason I said that you would not be liable for certain orders that a practitioner makes is because you are not expected to know everything that these practitioners know. Its not a bad thing but I guarantee that you have implemented orders that were not the best orders and could have caused harm without a thought because you did not know any different. The practitioner is the one that is responsible for their actions/orders. If it is a mid-level than their supervisor is responsible as well. If it is something that as a nurse you are absolutely supposed to know then you all may be in trouble.

Please dont get offensive........I did read your post very well and nowhere in my post did I imply or say that you were bashing PAs. Although if anything PAs should be offended by your generalization that they are not that great based on your experience with only a few! This clearly stated after reading back over your original message. I said that there were incompetant providers just as my opinion....not saying that you forget to mention that because I understood the content of your message and say that you briefly mentioned the incompetance of others (but while really calling out the PAs:)). Also again i did not SAY that you would ignore an order. As you can see if carefully reading my message. I was giving a theoretical situation which could be any nurse not just yourself! One more point...you discuss losing your license as opposed to hurting someones feelings if giving the wrong dose of medication ....be honest you are not expected to be responsible for what a practitioner orders. The PA and ultimately attending physician would be responsible for the mess up. Hats off to you for picking that up but ultimately the responsibility would not be in your hands. Also my original post was a simple short imformative quote stating that it is law for nurses to take orders from NP/PA in Pennsylvania. That is all. The law is law like it or not. My simple statement resulted in your "speal" about how incompetant PAs are either way again appreciate you sharing your experience. My post was not meant to be offensive or argumentative just a discussion. Sorry if you have taken my post out of context. Have a nice day :)

Thank you for sharing that experience with us and I am sorry that you have had to encounter a "bad" PA. Truth be told I encounter very bad nurses almost daily (only daily of course because of the number of nurses I encounter), very bad Physicians, PAs, NPs semi-regularly. The only point that I was trying to make out of that post is that if you were a nurse in Pennsylvania it is law that you take the orders from PAs and NPs. I understand that if you feel the order will harm a patient you can question it and probably deny your implementing of the order. I dont know I am not familiar with nursing regulations. I know that if I saw something that would be harmful I would question as I follow the Hippo oath....first do no harm! I do know however that the hospitals in pennsylvania have implemented a law and I am sure the opposite could be true. Say you do not take an order from a PA and the order is not done and something happens to the patient....Your fault! Now this is just theorhetically. Just my input. Thanks for hearing.

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In Pennsylvania there was new law enacted that should have already been incorporated into hospital policies that orders must be taken which come from NPs and PAs

Not to start an argument but their is quite the inconsistency with NP programs as well. We discuss the inconsistencies of both in a civil manner on the other board in which I post (NPs and PAs) It is something all of us would like to see more standardization. I know that you can say all NPs have Masters Degree. This is true however do the research and you will see that some NP masters degree programs require less than some PA bachelors programs. Just FYI