pedicurn

Quite frankly disagree. The nurse educator I work with has a lot of education and a high level of intelligence. Her perception is often of more value than mine. That is because she is very smart and has a couple of good quality nursing degrees. She doesn't even have a whole lot of experience. Maybe ? five years. I don't get upset about that. Many of the doctors I work with .... well they have even more intelligence (usually) and possess even more education. Their perception of many situations carries more weight than mine and the nurse educator. Do I get upset about that ? NNNOOOOOOO I value their input and seek it often. They are smarter than me and took way more classes in medical school. I have grown a lot. My perception has improved and developed over the years .... the docs have helped me with that. Are they snooty arrogant whatevers for gently and respectfully insisting their perception might carry more weight than mine ? No. They are more intelligent than me and have more education. I don't get upset about that. It's important that docs be highly intelligent and have lots of education Some nurses have less education than me and probably not as smart. Do they frequently come ask me for my input ? Do they value my perception? Yes ... that's why they keep asking me. They tell me they like seeking my input because I am 'smart' and 'see things more fully'. Does that mean i'm better than them? No *sigh* PS I would hope a health professional's educational level contributes to perception. That's why we seek higher education

I've been busy away from here. Have come back, read the posts and wish to state: - I admit it was a poor example. I mentioned that. - However the original topic ' Nurses,perception difference and education' is a valid topic and people needn't get so upset if it is discussed. - Some people really get their underwear in a twist whenever nursing educational difference is discussed (some of these people are not even nurses). I'm getting tired of this. Crabs in a bucket. If nurses want to be real professionals they need to get over this issue. - Other professions insist on more standardised academic entry and higher academic standards ... wonder why so many nurses and observers get so upset whenever suggestion is made that nurses should have those sorts of standards too? Really some people need to get over themselves. Pink collar highly skilled role vs profession?.... hhmmmmm - Insinuating that someone is some kind of snooty, arrogant uppity individual for even mentioning the topic is silly. Crabs in a bucket -again

This nurse's life is made so much harder by the selfish behaviour of the daughters. Irregardless of wanting a social life or not .... both of them should be pulling their weight and doing all the household work plus doing their share of caregiving. Perhaps some cultures understand this better than others?? I think one of the reasons multigenerational families work better for some cultures than others .... family members understand the responsibility and benefit of such an arrangement. Also with tough times ahead and changed financial environment (middle class disappearing) perhaps it would be a good idea for families to learn from other cultures and make the multigenerational household work for them? I think we will turn full circle. Persons of Western/northern Euro ethnicity will be forced to alter their 'family view' and do this for financial survival

Not wishing to judge at all ... just making an observation here Some families seem to pool financial resources and this helps make the multi-generational household work eg Italian, Lebanese,Greek, Croatian people where I live will buy a home together. Parents leftover money plus welfare check will pay for non-family caregivers if needed, medications and extras. This seems to work for southern european and asian cultures but seems not a lifestyle choice preferred by other cultures (from my own observation). Not wishing to step on toes here .... I understand the pressures many families face and the challenges that render a nursing home the better choice than previous situation. However .... I would suggest that cultural factors do play a part in this issue. Having Western Euro, Southern Euro and MiddleEastern roots I can see the cultural issues at play here

Thanks :)

One could argue it does depend on what kind of parent they were As some parents don't care too much about their children when they are growing up ..... those kids might have to be saints to want to care for their elder parents. Often I've had to call families to come in and see their dying parent ..... they are not keen sometimes and reading between the lines I would say their parent may have been abusive. I don't think I would want to come in and see a dying pedophile parent. And I would definitely put a pedophile parent in a nursing home. Sad but fact of life for some people

Agree In Sydney we see more of certain cultural groups in nursing homes and less of others. We see more Lebanese, Greek, Italian, Croatian caring for their elders at home and way fewer ethnically UK Euros caregiving at home. Though when I was a growing up it was not uncommon for Irish Catholics to insist on having their elders at home but I think that has changed now

All well and good. And yes they often do finally start to take action when they are at their lowest point. However I would add - many of them don't have much to live for at this stage with health, family, money, job, friends all gone. If they have been to rehab upteen times I'm more interested in keeping them out of hospital by sorting their infection or whatever.' It is way less expensive having the community nurse or psych nurse visit these people at home and keep 'plugging up the holes' rather than having them coming into hospital

Similar playing field .... just like doctors, engineers etc. I fail to see the issue with that. Works well for the others Nothing wrong with more nurses attaining some basic generic professional skill as well as their professional nursing skill. You know we have an issue when we receive a variety of response from new nurses regarding the difficulty of their state boards. Hearing 'it was way too easy it was pathetic, I can't believe I went to university for this' is as bad as hearing 'oh my goodness, it was the most difficult thing I have ever done' ... both make me cringe.

Not at all As long as their perception originates from the same playing field

Yes you are quite correct ... agree Intellect is a big part of it. Perception relates to intellect The nurses with the broader perception I am advocating for have good intellect. Without intellect and related broader perception we cannot be real professionals

Agree However that was not what I was referring to. My initial post was about differences of perception due to nurse educational differences and was making the argument that a variation of generic professional skill (relating specifically to how we handle information) results in differences that we don't need

Actually no - many of our p'ts like this do manage to take their meds a lot of the time. We are not going to be able to fix many of them. But what we can do is try to maintain their delicate balance to keep them functioning and out of the hospital. It's what happens in the short term that will determine whether he comes back in two days To answer your question 'how long does it last before they end at the hospital's revolving door'? Likely we see him again after two months - instead of two days.

Perhaps I should have chosen a better example. My point seems to be lost along the way I was asserting that perception difference is broad in nursing and this causes us difficulty. Life as a nurse would be easier if we were on the same page and unifying education might be a good way of attaining this. So much nursing time and energy is wasted, one way or another - dealing with this

Sounds quite wishy washy for a profession. It's almost in the fluffy bunny / unicorn/ rainbow realm ( that I was forced to endure during some of nursing school lectures) The argument further cements my creeping dissatisfaction with the premise that nursing is a profession. Making a general statement here ... When we state the degree of analytical endeavor we pay to any particular nursing problem is dependent on our nursing styles, personalities and beliefs .... then I believe we have lost the plot as a profession

'Exact same way' will not happen ....agree. We wouldn't want that. But what will happen is that nurses will move onto the same page and a more common perspective will be the order of the day. Similar to what we see with professionals who have more education eg doctors. Example I do not see much 'hearts on sleeve' behaviour from doctors. Even if it is a close and personal subject for them - I would not expect a doctor to say 'throw out the alcohol' without utilising a broader perception. Someone mentioned earlier that a nurse with experience of alcoholism in her family might be more inclined to automatically throw it out. I would assert this is not about personal nursing style .... it's about a lack of a professional perspective regarding how she is handling information

It is a matter of priority for the p't. Because he already has his immediate vodka he will have the money to fill the prescription and eat. Therefore he might take his Metformin and also he might start his antibiotics for his cellulitis. If he doesn't have much money he will prioritise and buy vodka to the detriment of the other. It isn't at all far fetched - we see it all the time

even if that means we have him back in tomorrow? and then two days later ? Because that will happen when he makes a choice between buying more alcohol and filling his meds. Eg He doesn't fill his Metformin, his cellulitis worsens

I think personal experience might very well influence action for some nurses. However it is just one explanation for throwing out the alcohol and shouldn't be generalised over the whole nurse population. Nurses who allow their personal experience to influence their actions here are not behaving like educated professionals - that would be 'wearing heart on sleeve' behaviour and inappropriate for a professional and this would have a relationship with formal education

Lack of broadness of perception relating to how she/he is handling information. Mostly (but not always) correlating to education She/he thinks 'the alcohol is the problem therefore we have to throw it away .... duh' Others 'think out' more. Simply throwing away the alcohol wont have much effect on the whole picture. (we don't have a policy on this)

Here's an example that crops up quite a lot in my unit. A p't arrives intoxicated with a supply of vodka in their belongings. Many of my coworkers automatically throw the alcohol out because the 'p't has come in here drunk' and alcohol abuse is one of their problems. However I keep the alcohol and the rest of their belongings in a secure place and return on discharge. My rationale is based on a few points: - The p't will just go buy more alcohol on discharge and that will likely mean they wont have enough money to fill their prescriptions on discharge and eat properly. Thus we will have them back in soon enough. It may also mean they could be so skint at that particular time - will be evicted as can't pay the rent -therefore now homeless and with all the problems that entails - Will need to keep drinking in the short term to avoid withdrawl - Alcohol is legal -The alcohol is p't property - It can be kept away from the p't and others whilst admitted so no risk keeping it in the hospital. This difference in perception exists amongst our staff nurses and also amongst our group of charge nurses

That's it .... I'm moving to California ! Well done to the well paid nurse.

Mostly pertaining to how information is handled - broadness/narrowness + accuracy. And relating to generic professional skill development as distinct from the 'professional' development taught in nursing school

Anyone else tired of this ??? I have this view that nursing is a mixture of : highly skilled, trade,vocation, art and profession. Thus it is quite possible to be a strong RN without much generic professional development which leads to perception difference. I see this perception difference as one of the sticky issues on my unit as it seems to be part of the mix whenever there is conflict. People tire of constantly needing to be aware of this perception difference and the requirement to accommodate it. I would assert that it's inappropriate for these differences to remain if nursing is to be a real profession. I would further assert that perception will be more unified when nursing education is unified and a more rigorous approach applied to standards (both educational and program entrance)