boru

this article sums it up pretty well! http://www.sacbee.com/2011/12/04/4097980/new-california-nursing-graduates.html

Both of you bring up some really good points in these posts. Magnoliophyte (a lover of flowers I'm assuming), I do agree with you about the hiring policies of the healthcare networks in the area (although I only know of 1 that I would consider dominant). As far as relocating goes, if you're young enough and don't have many obligations keeping you here (family, school, etc), then Texas is surely the place to look at for a new grad acute care position (they call new grads GNs there). But many of us cannot do that because of other obligations and if you look on all the other state's nursing boards, the secret is out on Texas... it's very competitive now but still very possible to get a great job. Moving to less populated parts of the Az is also an interesting option... but from my experience, some of the outlying hospitals in Az are catching on to the fact that new grads from Tuc/Phx are temporarily relocating to get their magical "1-2yrs of acute care experience" and then moving right back to where they came from. So essentially they are training a lot of the new grads (and incurring the cost) and once they get through the 'novice RN' stage, they loose them to the the larger metro areas. bratmobile (another great name!), that was pretty funny! Of course in Phx I'm not sure about the 'hills' and the 'snow' part lol. But actually you bring up a really good point about the phoenix area and getting into RN school. I've lived and looked into RN school in 4 major metro areas in 4 different states and by far, phx was the easiest to get into RN school (and least expensive). In most other areas you still have to 'compete' and be selected (vs just waiting on a list). Even in phx, outside of the MCC programs and a few private programs, there is still a competetive process for selection in place.

I had an inside source (meaning a friend of mine that works there) tell me that they are cancelling the GAPP for Feb... reason was they over-hired in the last GAPP this past summer. I'm not saying this is factual... I'm just stating what I heard.

johnnyarei, if you don't mind, PM or email me... I have a few ideas.

thank you! Love the emoticon! LOL! No worries... It will all work out for us, maybe Abrazo just wasn't the right place for us.

if you have time to become a CNA/PCT and get a part-time position doing that at a facility you are interested in, that is a really good way to go also. I know a lot of people that got positions internally going that route... but I also know a handful that are still doing that even after passing the NCLEX.

I believe Abrazo means 'Hug' in spainish... but after applying to this program several times this year and never hearing back from them,... I think I need an abrazo!

johnnyarei, I agree 100% with what the others have told you on this thread... networking before you graduate is the key. There are jobs out there but compared to how it was just a few short years ago, they are much harder to find and take a little more effort (and sometimes educaion)... the jobs are out there, there is just more of an obstacle at getting them now. Also, I agree with the fact that you do have a few years before you need to worry about this... as hard as this situation has been on the new grads (me included) I would never discourage anyone getting their RN for these reasons. If you study the trends in nursing you will be assured of only one thing... it is always changing (usually for the better). Your choice of school is also fantastic... I attend a grad program there and I love that school. Good luck!

I appreciate anyone that takes the time to give us info like that... thank you for the post GalRN. I also have a degree in Psych and have considered psych nursing. I will be completely honest, it's not my first choice,... but at this point it is definitely something I may look into. I only know of behavioral health positions at Banner, St. Lukes, Aurora, and Maricopa. Are the positions you are talking about on the Maicopa Medical Center site? If you have a link that would be great. Thank you again for the info...

deleted post because the board duplicated it

good article RNfaster (interesting name), thanks for the post... As far as your disagreement goes, I should know better than to make absolute statements on a message board... there will always be exceptions to everything. I'm speaking on averages and norms... persistance is always key in any job that you go after. But HRs and the internet application process makes it more difficult. I shouldn't say it's not possible... or speak in absolutes. I should've said, it's not probable. The point is that a few years ago, there was a clear path for a new grad to become more than a novice RN in acute care. You just needed to wait for an externship or new grad program and a hospital would usually train you (sometimes, even in a specialty of your own choosing). Today, that path is not as clear, and the fact is that many RNs coming out of school today will have to choose a career path in an area outside of acute care to be successful.

AZMOMO2, thank you for your reply... I agree with what you are saying and you know that I feel your pain and frustration first hand. However, the media is still correct and there are still plenty of nursing jobs in demand (just not for new grads). Go to any hospital website and you will find a ton of nursing jobs (just none that I can apply to LOL). But the fact still remains that there are a lot of nursing jobs out there. The real problem is that most of the jobs left for new grads (if any) are clinic-based, sub-acute care, long-term care, school nurse, etc... unfortunately, you cannot work these jobs and expect a hospital to pick you up in a year or two. In fact you can work any of the jobs I just mentioned for 5 years and a lot of hospitals these days will still look at you as a new grad. A'residency' for nurses that want to work in acute care (which is most of us), that's what is missing these days. If you do not 'know someone' who knows a nursing manager, your most likely not going to get hired at a hospital as a new grad. Then what are they left with? Nothing, there is no path to get into an acute care job... there is no 'I'll do my time at this place so that I can get an interview, or not be considered a new grad in two years job" out there. That's why I mentioned that hospitals should offer a pay cut for 1st yr RNs... new grads would line up over night around the block to work for less money at a hospital/specialty of their choice. I would do it at a PCT salary for a year just to get my foot in the door and learn valuable skills... anything to loose this new grad label. Your other point about ADN programs making money... if you are talking about the MCC programs, they don't make a dime on nursing and are subsidized by the tax base to offer such cheap tuition. Phoeinx is has the cheapest RN programs in any state I have ever seen. If your talking about Apollo (or what ever the their name is this year)... then I whole-heartedly agree with you. The real problem here is at the HR hiring level... there needs to be a plan to hire 1000's of new grads in Arizona at acute care jobs.

Agreed, the advantage of paying 50-60k for a private school used to be that you A) didn't have to wait an extra 2 yrs on the Comm. College list, and B) you didn't have to compete against other applicants going into a program like ASU, UA, NAU, or even GCU (and take the chance of being possibly passed over a year) A few years ago, the extra tuition cost of $40k was offset by becoming an RN 1-2 yrs earlier than the Comm. College option. Now with the market being what it is today, I don't feel that the privates are a good option any longer.

Hospitals need more nurses but claim they cannot afford to train them... new nurses cannot find acute care experience therefore cannot get an acute care job. The answer to me seems pretty simple: I have heard statistics the state that every new grad costs a hospital $15k to train over the course of 6 months - 1 year. Then why don't they just open up extern programs at a reduced pay to offset the cost? The avg new nurse makes around $40-50k the first year ($25/HR x 36Hrs x 52wks = $46k). If hospitals would just offer nurse extern programs and pay the externs $15k less the first year to offset the cost and then bump up their pay after the first year, both problems are solved.

I totally agree... it will work out in the end but the strategy and they way they are doing it is not the best. fromthesea: LOL! I remember some of those comments from last year... too funny! The really sad thing about all of this is that everyone in this situation is suffering. There is still an RN staffing shortage at most facilities (I realize there are some exceptions)... therefore the staff is becoming burned out picking up extra shifts or working under increasingly higher nurse/patient ratios... We all know that the patients are probably going to suffer with higher ratios and a burned out staff... and lastly, all the new grads that that worked so hard to get through school and are practically begging for acute care experience are suffering most of all...

Looks like the posting went up on the 14th and went down on the morning of the 16th (from reading the posts on FB). According to their FB site, no new info is available and the information of dates and when/if they actually are hiring is still pending.

This is a long read but very interesting... I read last year's and this one seems pretty similar with 3 differences: "Three differences are evident in this year's results compared to last year's: fewer newly licensed nurses in 2011 acquired positions in acute care; newly licensed nurses in 2011 had a slightly increased chance of finding a job if they held a BSN degree; and newly licensed nurses in 2011 generally experienced a longer time from licensure to employment." http://www.azbn.gov/Documents/education/Employment%20Newly%20Licensed%20RN.09.09.11.pdf

nrsjen8, Conrats on your decision to move to the desert. I'll post a few links here for you, but I'm sure you have most of this info already: approved nursing prograns by the AZBON http://www.azbn.gov/Documents/education/Nursing%20Programs/Nursing%20Programs%20List.11.09.11.pdf MCC nursing program link... click on advanced placement on this link: http://www.nursing.maricopa.edu/ I don't know anyone in the U of P LPN-BSN program, but I have heard some rumblings about it, some good, some bad... I do know that it is an expensive option though. If I were you, I would just put in the advanced placement application through Maricopa (the 2nd link). All of the Comm. College programs in Phoenix are linked and you would not only be applying to one but applying to all of them. I'm also pretty sure this would be you least expensive option also. MCC tuition for nursing school is still very affordable... I would be surprised if you paid more than $3000-5000 (including books) for the 2 blocks that you need. Good luck!

Personally, I think it's more important to potential employers that you end up with your BSN vs which school you went to. If you are going to a community college program for your RN, then you can get your BSN in a little over a year after your initial RN. If you get your initial RN from say Mesa CC, then go to ASU, GCU, UA, or NAU for your BSN... your BSN is from that school (if names really matter to you). Let me put it to you this way... In all of the applications I have filled out for RN jobs, everyone of them asked me if I had a BSN or not. This didn't used to matter as much... but today every little detail to get your application to a hiring manager's desk is important. Good luck in your program!

I agree with the above post about St Joe's... it has an excellent reputation for being a great place to work (but may not be the highest paying). Also, they have moved their peds and PICU services to Phx Children's but still have NICU. Also, Scottsdale Health Care's facility's have a good reputaion for job satisfaction and I'm pretty sure they now have a PICU also. If I had a choice of any facilities to work for (and with your experience you should have a choice), I would work for St. Joe's, Scottsdale (Osborne or Shea), or Maricopa County. They are all very different organizations but all have something good to offer. Good Luck!

Congrats sunsurfRN, in this market that is a great accomplishment. I agree that networking is the way to go... or as we used to call it, it's not what you know but who you know.

arwerth, I'm assuming your addressing the author of the original thread? I didn't go to Chamberlin, but I hear it is a fine school... one of the better out of the privates. I would never discourage someone from still pursuing their RN because of these hiring issues... it will eventually turn around. To be clear, there ARE RN jobs out there for new grads... it's just a question of quality of job. Over half of my classmates are still not employed as nurses (but those are the ones trying to get in hospitals only). Also, the appeal to going to a private school (chamber., PIMA, apollo, ethel bauer, or whatever theses schools are called these days) was that you didn't have to wait on the MCC list for two years. The cost of most of the privates was around $50k, and the cost of a community college was around $10K. A few years ago, you could go to a private school and begin almost immediately and finish earlier... therefore you could begin your RN career earlier than most of those that waited on the list. Making an RN salary earlier in some cases justified the higher cost. However, because of the job market today, that justification for a significantly higher pricetag on your education may not exist. I would still hold out and go to an MCC school and then bridge over to ASU or GCU to get your BSN.

You were picked in the top 5 out of 750?! Wow, that's amazing! It's like loosing the superbowl (only their odds were better LOL)... but how impressive it was you got a look! I feel you, my friend... jobwise I don't think the recession ever left PHX. I was glad I was in RN school when it first hit... but as the semesters past the hiring stories got worse. I'm sure it's getting better... I just haven't felt it personally yet.

I totally agree with you leeanna, I worked for one of those places for a little while as an RN... and let's just say it wasn't for me. But maybe someone else would have better experience there. I didn't feel I was nursing there, I didn't have time to do that... I had too many pts that needed their meds and their dressings changed. Some of these facilities you can have 19-20 pts with just a CNA to help you... it's a lot of responsibility. Yes, I also agree that the hospitals won't consider it acute care exp... and that you will still be considered a new grad. It's not fair but it is what it is. Just please understand that some of us are in a desperate situation... does it look better to not work at all? Maybe it's just my opinion, but I feel that the longer you don't work, the worse you look to a potential employer. Thank goodness for school!... I can collect all the degrees I want. It's great that I can bust out all these APA papers, and discussion questions on nursing theory until I'm blue in the face. But unless someone will give us a chance, all of these letters after our name isn't going to matter. The best education is on the unit... At this point, I wish the hospitals would just offer us new grads lower pay for the first year to offset the cost of the new grad training. It wouldn't conflict with the experienced nurses payscale and we could be assigned a preceptor for longer periods of time to help with their pts. I'll take lower pay, I just need the opportunity to learn. I read this article a few months ago that a hospital in Houston was going to start a new-grad residency for 6 months and was hiring 100s of graduate RNs (GNs they call them in Texas)... the trick was that it was a non-paid position, and at the end of it you would be re-evaluated for hire. Crazy right? But that's where we are... it's how desperate we've become. If I lived there I would have considered it... anything for a chance to get rid of this new grad label. Sorry for the rant...

RNinWhite is correct... I'm in the newgrad boat also and took the advice of others that said, apply to jobs other than 'new grad' postings (which are pretty rare). I wish I wouldn't have wasted all those hours typing in applications... Ive applied to hundreds of jobs like that. Like if it says: experienced preferred... HRs seem to be phasing out the word preferred for the most part... but today it doesn't mean new grad. look on scottsdale healthcare's job site, there is basically a caveat that says external new grads need not apply (they just say it nicer). It is possible to get a job as a new grad in a hospital... I'm just saying it's not probable (more like hitting the lottery... but it does happen). Your best bet is to focus on clinics and sub-acute facilities... some of them are hiring. Once you get in there then keep looking at the hospitals, at least you'll have an income and be getting some sort of experience while you are waiting. I wish you all the best... but you're not alone.