CSARmedic

"what dictates the letters after your name when you become an NP? " Ego...

I agree entirely only because that I think that nurses have only recently figured out what the problem was and has been. I don't restrict my analogy to just the term bullying as it is also unprofessional conduct and/or just plain rudeness and disrespect. But it all amounts to the same thing (to me).

OK. I get the gist of all of your comments. Yes, I was generalizing and yes, it is the sum of all of my experiences and is not to be taken as a characterization of nursing as a whole. I was just asking a question. Now, Let me back up a bit and put my comments into perspective. Nursing is my fourth, yes, fourth career. I just retired from the US Air Force after 34 years of continuous military service. Service which includes three career fields: Security Forces (Military Policeman), First Sergeant (senior administrator for unit commanders) and lastly senior combat search and rescue medic in one of the busiest combat rescue units in the Air Force (Reserves). I have deployed 11 times in those 34 years, 6 of which were combat deployments which involved direct action with the enemy and have had to perform direct casualty treatment and evacuation while under enemy fire. I have been shot down, mortared, almost (closely) blown up, and scared ******** more times than I care (or want) to remember. I have been there and done that. And I kept coming back for more because I thoroughly enjoyed my (stressful and hazardous) job and my (stressed out and frequently dysfunctional) co-workers. I HAD to retire because of something called High Year Tenure (HYT) which means that an enlisted guy can't go on beyond an arbitrary date because of a stupid law. They assume that you are too old and tired to go on performing your duty as well as the twenty-something (which is simply not the case if you ask anyone who knows me). My point being, I was forced to walk away from an inherently dangerous, stressful, and risky job (military) but voluntarily walked away from nursing. I quit nursing and it was the first time I quit anything in my life. Why? Because at 51 years-old, I know what is right and what is wrong. I know what behaviors are justified and what aren't. I'm educated (BSN) and highly trained (16 different months-long formal military training schools) and I KNOW what is right and what is wrong and I REFUSE to continue to participate in the deceitful and unprofessional behavior which is so predominate in nursing. The mere fact that so many respondents acknowledge the problem existing within nursing proves that there is a significant problem. Quite simply, there should be a zero-tolerance attitude toward this behavior not simple acknowledgement that it exists. The mere fact that males, who account for 51% of the population only make up 6-8 percent (depends on who you quote) of nurses in the era of affirmative action and equal opportunity, to me, SCREAMS of a huge problem. Doesn't anyone realize that there are more female's in the military than male nurses. There are more female MARINES than male nurses. There are more female firefighters, police officers, and construction workers than male nurses. But people, not unlike many of the respondents to this thread, continue to make excuses and justified reasoning for the bad behavior of so many of their "colleagues" as well as the low male numbers. "Men don't want to be seen as handmaidens", or "Men don't want to be seen in a female dominated profession" Blah, blah, blah. Men try and men fail in nursing (as I did) due to factors beyond our control and ability to adapt. Nurses really need to start asking why that is happening or NOTHING will change. That's all I'm saying.

I've kept my license but I'm a full time student and work as a paramedic

[h=1]Are mean girls getting meaner? Teens open up about bullying[/h]http://www.today.com/moms/are-mean-girls-getting-meaner-teens-open-about-bullying-8C11417897?ocid=msnhp&pos=1 I just read this article and starting thinking if some (many) of these women will gravitate to nursing. I know that nursing is full of bullies and unprofessional behavior so I got to thinking if there could be a correlation. I mean OF COURSE there is a correlation but nothing based on emperics. Just a hunch and gut feeling. I was basically run out of nursing by these behaviors (I refused to put up with it after a while and the different standards of behavior I was subjected too) but was wondering how many other people experienced it also.

Thank you but it doesn't make me feel any better about the situation. VERY frustrating. I think you'll be praying for quite some time. The (generally) non-confrontational nature of women precludes any sort of sort of "revolution" by nurses. Males, typically, don't shy away from direct confrontation and history shows us that revolutions, no matter what they may be - civil war, labor unions, etc, REQUIRE forceful and aggressive confrontation to overcome imposed barriers. Ergo the flaccid and incompetent labor unions representing most nursing organizations. With the exception of a few in California (which have picketed in the past), nursing unions (and nurses) will continue to allow the "profession" of nursing to recede into oblivion. I realize that I'm going to be flamed by my female comments (above) but these are the HARD truths of reality. Men behave certain ways in some situations as women do. Yes, I do remember the suffrage movements earlier this century as well as the voting movements but I'm not confident that the problems within nursing will stimulate a similar movement. Let's not forget that men make up ONLY 7.5 percent (depending on your source of info) of nurses so it's up to women to make changes and I haven't heard any revolutionary rumblings from nursing leaders within the healthcare industry, academia, and media. Lets also not forget that these shameful and obstinate policy "reforms" such as the requirement imposed by Vanderbilt were approved and imposed by nursing "leaders" (CNO's, nurse managers, etc). So, again, these problems originate from WITHIN nursing. Nurses are our own worst enemy.

CHEAPER nurse is all they care about! And that's all that matters. He who keeps the business (hospital) profitable is the King! You don't get it - THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT NURSES! They don't care about Flo and her history, they daon't care about how many impressive acronyms you have after your last name or how many impressive degrees you hold. They REALLY don't care about how long you've been a nurse as long as you do what they say, when they say it, for the measly pay. And because nurses typically refuse to understand that, the same as you don't, they will be more than willing to help nursing re-invent itself out of existence by hiring paramedics or MA's or whatever they can come up with. You're right, they don't understand and they want too and don't have too. That's the point you're missing. THEY DON'T HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING! They are running a business and the bottom line is all that matters - even if they have to pay fines for cutting back in some areas. If they can make the numbers work they'll pay the fines and cut staff and lay off nurses and... Where are those unions? Or at least unions that make a difference? The unions I see now are telling their members to wear red shirts and make red roses in solidarity when nurses are laid off. Yeah, I'm sure the managers and administrators are shaking in their boots.Speaking of which, why didn't your generation create any (effective) unions? Why didn't you guys affiliate with the AFL-CIO? Those guys don't play around. Yeah, right the CFO's are going to cringe when (if) nurses FINALLY organize and unionize. Or maybe they'll just fire the lot of them. Times are tough (in healthcare) and only going to get worse. It's simply foolish to think that the "rights" and "authority" or nurses will take precedence over the bottom line. CEO's have a responsibility to shareholders, the community, and patients to continue to provide a much needed service. It's nurses fault that they've NEVER been able to grasp these edicts and see the world for what it really is.

I couldn't agree more with you Howardhughes. I've walked away from nursing twice and now I'm giving it another shot as an APRN student but nothing has changed. This behavior is so ingrained in the culture that it will never change and it's more than just unprofessionalism, it's blatant disrespect. By that I mean that the lousy behavior toward nurses (mostly by other nurses) by management, MD's, etc is poor interpersonal behavior because it's the norm and (generally) accepted. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Nursing's worst enemy are nurses. We bring it on ourselves. Good luck to you and congrats in breaking away. My best in your new endeavors.

Guttercat, you are one of the very few people (nurses) I've come across that has a clue to what's going on in nursing: Nurses are putting themselves out of business. The nursing profession does not have a rosy future and the administrators of Vanderbilt are giving you a very early view. Nursing has always and will always be viewed by the public and professionals as a (noble) blue collar profession irregardless of nursing's constant attempts to reinvent itself. ADN, BSN, MSN, PhD really doesn't mean squat to the beancounters. We have been and always will be a disposable resource. It's much easier to blame and fire a nurse than rebuild a faulty (medication) system. How many times has a pharmacist or MD been fired or reprimanded due to a serious med error? Vanderbilt CEO is giving nurses a view into the future where nurses will be expected to clean thier patient rooms in addition to doing everything else while having to "earn" annual cost of living increases or raises. CNA's and MA's will be trained to take on additional roles and responsibilities all at the expense of a lessening RN workforce. The band has started to play and the ship is sinking. And it's all of nursings fault. Thier inability to adapt to change, thier inability to confront management either with or without unions (in the typical non-confrontational way females do), and thier incessant screaming of patient safety concerns every time there are changes in the workplace have shown that nurses make easy pickings. Scream and tell me off as much as you want but that won't change the fact that BSN's, MSN's and clinical specialists at Vanderbilt (and other hospitals) will be taking out the garbage and changing bed-sheets just like the environmental staff has done in the past. The future is out there and it ain't looking good for nursing in the future.

Don't do it. There are more ex-male nurses or male nurses who hate the job than I can count. Go into heavy equipment operator. Better pay, no bureaucracy, better working conditions and time off. oh, and REALLY effective unions.

Gee, another lousy nursing manager. Man, how rare!

The first thing that occurred to me after I read your heading was "How did you know it was a med error?" Are you the charge nurse or just another "really involved colleague" i.e. nosy. In all the places I've worked, I've never had the opportunity to get that involved in another nurses business unless I've been orienting another nurse. One of the hallmark philosophies I've come to realize in nursing is "Nursing's biggest problem (and we have many problems) is nurses". I'm playing devils advocate here but isn't taking the time and effort to second guess another's work and then investigating their mistakes usually left to supervisors or managers (even if they are on vacation)? Who appointed you the charge nurse or manager in their absence? When done by a coworker (like yourself) without the approval or recommendation of management or HR you're inviting retaliatory-like behavior from co-workers. It's human nature. And now you've ostracized yourself as "the snitch" and can't be trusted. All in the "name" of patient safety. Which really isn't safety at all because the patient received the wrong medication not just that one time but many times as you pointed out. You didn't prevent the error from occurring (not your fault) but it still happened, apparently, many times. My personal feeling is that the term "patient safety" is getting really old. Nurses use it for every little problem they encounter in the workplace from staffing problems to having to clean up patient rooms (google the story about Vanderbilt University hospital nurses cleaning patient rooms), to forced overtime or not enough hours, or whatever. It's just getting really old. The truth is you probably didn't like that person, got too nosy and thought you could get back at them for some little thing they may or may not have done to you. You took it upon yourself to be the great savior of your workplace and now you can't understand why you are being treated badly by your coworkers. Get a life.

I'm a 6'3" 200 lbs male that's been bullied many times in my 15 years in nursing ( I think my tormentors see my size as a sort of challenge). I'm very male (not gay) and have been in the Air Force since I was 17 so I'm a juicy target for a female bully. My biggest regret has been that I never stood up against them. I just got depressed and eventually moved on to another job. You're going to have to stand up to the bastard. Go toe to toe with him and call him out. In public so there are other witnesses and go to HR now to validate your allegations. It sounds like you'll lose your job (or your self respect) if you don't. But if you don't you'll probably lose your job anyway so what do you have to lose? Nurses are a dime a dozen so the easy solution is to just fire the trouble maker (you) so what do you have to lose? Please let me know how it works out.

Hear, Hear...Thank God...finally someone's said it.

Having been exposed to and been a victim of sexual / gender based harrassment in the workplace, I would advise to press and finish your training but not to forget the experience. Chances are it won't be the last time you will have to deal with it. You WILL have to learn how to deal with it to be able to endure a career in nursing. Women conduct themselves so much more differently than men do that many (most) men simply don't know how to deal with these "attacks".