AF2BSN

Why are you defensive about others sharing their anecdotal experience when you’re simply an additional n+1? Schools don’t just magically have a DOJ investigation show up at their door. Great to hear your daughter went to Walden. Great to hear you are, too. It sounds like you have a nice circle of people who understand your clinical background and can make employment decisions based on that. Recruiters and hiring managers sift through hundreds of applications for a few spots. Guess who gets tossed immediately? Look, the reality is that not everybody can or should be an NP. This idea that we should be admitting any Tom or Jane off the street into a program if they have the funds is ridiculous. The NP profession needs to hold itself accountable before physicians bend enough legislator ears and have accountability thrust on them. That starts with threads like this where constructive feedback is given. OP— NP school is not necessarily the answer here. Medicine is a serious endeavor and you have less than a year of RN experience. Your GPA is borderline failing in most nursing schools. Even if you work full time the next 1-2 years, do you believe 500 clinical hours is going to make you a competent prescriber? Would you be comfortable with a family member of friend being treated by a clinician with your background? If you’re absolutely set on this— take the advice given and retake some science courses, apply to a state school, and murder your 3Ps. Good luck!

Don’t fret! Still great odds. Plenty of smart, talented, and driven people were second round admits in my acute care program. I realize none of this will stop the anxiety, but you’re truly in a great position still. ?

I just want to echo that the faculty are phenomenal. Your first semester is probably the hardest, simply because of the transition to grad school and work schedule. Most of the acute care folks work 1.0-0.6 FTE. It’s definitely doable. I actually dropped back for the second semester based on the first, but realize now it’s probably not necessary. The pandemic changed things, but I was still able to attend assessment lab in person, have standardized patients for my MUTA/gyn exams, and planned to do finals assessments in-person until we were all ordered home. Faculty did a great job transitioning. I think things will begin to normalize by this fall. Be sure to connect with your classmates— they are a huge resource and one of the reasons you likely decided on Michigan. Pharmacology will likely be your hardest course your first semester. It’s a firehose drinking fountain, but you’ll adjust! Welcome to Michigan and Go Blue!

How is this different than engineering, physics, applied mathematics (or any STEM) pathway? Course sequencing and concept building exists to solve real world problems. I have to reject the notion that critical thinking is the domain of nursing. There’s also not a lot of fluff in other STEM undergrad degrees. How many papers do we need on Orem, or entertaining “esoteric” techniques like reiki healing in a BSN program? I guess I feel the arrogance of nursing students is largely unearned. It’s not the hardest or most grueling. Time intensive? Sure.

You get me! I usually fire off the .gif, but you’re absolutely correct.

You really flexin’, huh? Yeah! Tell ‘em LOL.

But plenty of people are in nursing school not technically taking nursing classes. It’s program specific. Nurses are always trying to rank and order each other. Guess what? Who cares.

Settle down, Francis. We’re policing the term used by undergrads now? My undergrad admitted freshmen and they were nursing students, but still taking pre-reqs. Also, nursing classes weren’t that bad or that much more intensive. It’s mostly people who never had responsibility or accountability who acted like the sky was falling.

My initial post specifically mentions residency and fellowships.

Did you read the OP, or just read the title?

Eh, I think that's more a function of level of acuity and recoverability. Most attorneys don't look at NPs as a deep well of funds and liability limits are higher for physicians. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1012370 Psychiatry is at the bottom of the list for claims and payout for physicians according to this. It's not a stretch to extrapolate that PMHNPs would be even lower based on factors I mentioned above. As expected, invasive procedure specialties are much more at risk.

What? I literally work at a Level 1 trauma center ER where the president of the health system is a male RN who has worked virtually every nursing position at the facility. Furthermore, nursing is the mob. Physicians don’t run this— we do. When nursing isn’t happy, medicine is scrambling to fix it. Miss me with this.

Not the students in the article, or in this thread, or the 5000 strong FB group? Or the many others who recognize there is a problem? We wouldn’t have the AMA or physicians pushing back if we had a leg to stand on. They’re not targeting PAs, because PA curriculum is actually standardized. You don’t have PAs taking online tests. You don’t have PAs finding their own preceptors. You don’t have PAs writing papers on nonsense. Your continued defense of a broken system is astounding. There is no standardization in NP training aside from broad standards that schools choose how to meet. Don’t get me started on 3Ps and their lack of rigor. How can there be standardization when I can elect to take not one, but TWO different tests for acute care boards? How is that standardized? It’s clear we will never agree on this. Time will tell. I’m guessing the NP profession is in for a rude awakening.

It would seem there is growing concern. https://www.live5news.com/2020/11/04/nurse-practitioner-field-grapples-with-question-whether-standardize-curriculum-nationwide/

Cool, except you keep glossing over what a lot of NPs are actually doing: not primary care. I could probably unleash seasoned bedside nurses on a PC population and they could manage 75-85% of the presenting issues. Non-standardized online learning and 500 hours of questionable clinicals later? Sure, have at it. The problem stands that NPs are not rushing to rural PC as was envisioned. They're specializing. They don't have bedside experience. They don't have a deep science foundation. They start off in a new job scared and scrambling. It's not all coughs and boo-boos. It's not cutting it in the CVICU, ED, surgical setting, etc. You keep talking around my points here. Most physicians are not comfortable renting out their licenses, to be frank. It's a lot of risk for not a lot of reward. Take a stroll through any "white coat" financial group, or just listen to how they refer to APPs in general. Sure, there are some willing to rent their license. Should they? I can't say that I would to a new grad FNP from whatever online school they came from. You're dreaming if you think that's feasible overall. Who cares if it takes some time? Do we not have a duty to produce the best and brightest? Are we not in the business of providing the best care and outcomes for our patients? I get that you're viewing this all from a new grad PMHNP lens, but step outside from it for a bit. This isn't about maximizing salaries via the "Elite NP" methodology of every NP owning their own practice/side hustle, or negotiating a 1099 position (where a lot of acute care folks in the hospital just can't do). It's about NPs taking control of the their profession, setting standards, and enforcing them before the bar is too low to salvage it.