DNP: Mirroring the Path of DO?

3 hours ago, myoglobin said:

I agree to a great extent, but still feel that the DNP could contain more clinical coursework even if only to prevent losing skills/knowledge gained in the MSN/NP segment of the program.  Also, I would question the ability to "change" health care delivery has a DNP given that so much of it is provided by MD's and PA's (certainly the ability to change it without practicing it).  Thus, as an MSN I have "some ambitions" around changing psychiatric healthcare focused around the greater use of lifestyle interventions (early morning light, exercise, yoga) and evidence based CAM approaches that I believe are "under" utilized (such as SAM(e), Saint John's Wort, standardized lavender extract/Silexin) and integrated CBT therapy.  If I am successful I will start a business and try to expand it locally, regionally and then nationally. That would (at least to some small extent) change that aspect of healthcare. I also aspire to encourage and empower NP's to manage/own their own practices (even in non IP states by paying MD's for collaboration where necessary or making them part owners). In this way I believe that NP's can double or triple their income and spend more time (on average with patients). Neither, of these objectives would be facilitated by my going back for a DNP as it is currently structured. Rather, they might however be advanced through actually creating/growing businesses and encouraging others to do the same.  I just don't see the advantage of a DNP relative to a PhD. At least if I go back for my PhD I would be better equipped to teach during my retirement (I'm 51 and plan to retire around 75 and then may teach for another decade) or I could perhaps do a thesis on something like "the  potential impact of artificial intelligence/expert systems on improving diagnosis and treatment by NP's" 

Also with regard to education after the "primary" degree one could argue that the various fellowships that MD's can obtain is the equivalent of "extra education" and that NP's should perhaps be able to avail themselves of similar opportunities to enhance knowledge.  

Oh yeah, I know MDs can do fellowships. It's still a form of post graduate training. There are also NP fellowships (although not the same, of course). Still, there are options for NPs to gain post graduate training. I just want to see NP education become more rigorous. There's this huge push for NPs to obtain their DNP degree, but there should be a push for better NP education first. I feel like the image of NPs is becoming increasingly negative with malpractice cases now coming to light. I don't even know if I can support NPs owning their own practices anymore.

44 minutes ago, Angeljho said:

Oh yeah, I know MDs can do fellowships. It's still a form of post graduate training. There are also NP fellowships (although not the same, of course). Still, there are options for NPs to gain post graduate training. I just want to see NP education become more rigorous. There's this huge push for NPs to obtain their DNP degree, but there should be a push for better NP education first. I feel like the image of NPs is becoming increasingly negative with malpractice cases now coming to light. I don't even know if I can support NPs owning their own practices anymore.

Well I only pay $75.00 month for over 2million in liability coverage the psychiatrist I did clinical under paid about 5 times that. According to my insurance company it is because NP get sued less often for lower average settlements.

3 hours ago, Angeljho said:

Oh yeah, I know MDs can do fellowships. It's still a form of post graduate training. There are also NP fellowships (although not the same, of course). Still, there are options for NPs to gain post graduate training. I just want to see NP education become more rigorous. There's this huge push for NPs to obtain their DNP degree, but there should be a push for better NP education first. I feel like the image of NPs is becoming increasingly negative with malpractice cases now coming to light. I don't even know if I can support NPs owning their own practices anymore.

Well, I think a good "starting point" would be the residency programs such as those offered through Thrive (formerly Midlevel U). These might evolve to become a "marketplace standard" in many places even if not mandated by law. 

On 12/20/2020 at 7:37 PM, myoglobin said:

Well I only pay $75.00 month for over 2million in liability coverage the psychiatrist I did clinical under paid about 5 times that. According to my insurance company it is because NP get sued less often for lower average settlements.

Eh, I think that's more a function of level of acuity and recoverability. Most attorneys don't look at NPs as a deep well of funds and liability limits are higher for physicians. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1012370

Psychiatry is at the bottom of the list for claims and payout for physicians according to this. It's not a stretch to extrapolate that PMHNPs would be even lower based on factors I mentioned above. As expected, invasive procedure specialties are much more at risk. 

Its not mirroring anything unless residency becomes a requirement.

3 hours ago, Tegridy said:

its not mirroring anything unless residency becomes a requirement

Did you read the OP, or just read the title?

4 minutes ago, AF2BSN said:

Did you read the OP, or just read the title?

read all of the above and the responses, people discussing classes but the topic of GME is left out so I added it

2 hours ago, Tegridy said:

read all of the above and the responses, people discussing classes but the topic of GME is left out so I added it

My initial post specifically mentions residency and fellowships. 

On 12/23/2020 at 5:51 PM, AF2BSN said:

Eh, I think that's more a function of level of acuity and recoverability. Most attorneys don't look at NPs as a deep well of funds and liability limits are higher for physicians. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1012370

Psychiatry is at the bottom of the list for claims and payout for physicians according to this. It's not a stretch to extrapolate that PMHNPs would be even lower based on factors I mentioned above. As expected, invasive procedure specialties are much more at risk. 

Whatever, the reason it is good to have low liability insurance premiums.

On 1/3/2021 at 3:31 PM, AF2BSN said:

My initial post specifically mentions residency and fellowships. 

It should be Mandatory though not optional