Guest67138

I can assure you that my entire post was used as an example scenario, not addressing you personally. At no point did I make any assumptions regarding you or anybody in this thread. I haven’t chastised you either. Nor have I said that you have done anything to anybody. I don’t know you as you don’t know me. Have you never had an adult conversation with someone who was explaining their viewpoint and put you in the scenario that they used as an example? I know that it is often difficult to relay or judge the tone of a conversation in texts and in this case posts, but you really don’t have to be so incredulously defensive. With that said, I do get the impression that you aggressively responded to my post as if you were already pugnaciously preparing yourself. I’ve also noticed you’re quick to counter with the same elevated moral high ground that you more or less insinuate that I have. But I digress. My original posts were all to point out the witch hunt and judgment that’s going on against people who make their own choices during this crisis we are in and the importance of medical professionals maintaining their professionalism and compassion for patients and caregivers even when they use the brain the good Lord gave them to make a decision we disagree with and despite educating them with qualified medical expertise. I could do this all day, and from the sound of it, you could too. However, I’m not here to attempt to change your mind or your views/opinions to mine. And I can assure you that you won’t be changing mine. I really do enjoy the debating when the subject is interesting. Unfortunately, I keep finding myself looking at and getting bored with the same tiresome regurgitated accusations of “spreading uncertainty” and providing “misinformation” as well as the abundant amount of statistics that are often used to prove one’s point or opinion. Those repetitiously mundane statistics quote the yawn-inducing Democrat-Republican colloquy or the Science-Religious Faith exchange or the masked-unmasked debate… There will always be opposing sides to everything as long as mankind exists. There is however one commonality that we should all be agreeing on, and that is the treatment of other human beings and respecting each other not only for our similarities but also our differences. We should be respecting that we won’t always agree and will often have differences in opinion, choosing to, for lack of a better term, get over it instead of talking to them with condescension and disdain. Every time someone spouts off statistics to me in attempt to strengthen their argument or to sway my opinion and stance over to theirs, I really want to explain to them that statistics is always subjective and does not deserve the bread credibility it’s often given. With that said, I’ve got some chores to attend to. I hope everyone has a good day.

In case I wasn’t clear in my previous post(s) and there is need for clarification, I said that people have the right to choose whether they want to vaccinate. I believe that should they choose not to vaccinate, then they should use discernment to make good decisions when there is the possibility of their being sick. They should be able to make the choice to take measures necessary to not intentionally harm someone else. My example with the AIDS patient was intended to support my statement that a person should have the moral obligation to make decisions that endeavor to not force an illness on others. My AIDS patient example was not intended for dissection so that someone can say well that’s not preventable but COVID is. It is my understanding that COVID is actually not preventable nor does the vaccine prevent you from getting it. I believe I read in previous messages between you and others on this particular subject and that it was stated that the vaccine is supposed to decrease the severity or something to that effect. I would also point out that AIDS could also be labeled as preventable unless it is contracted in the event of birth or receipt of contaminated blood products. With all that said because I wished to address the point you were making, I’m going to get off that tangent and return to the point I was originally making. My posts were more targeted towards my opinion of how people that aren’t vaccinated are poorly treated as well as discriminated against and that it is our professional and moral responsibility as medical professionals to educate them and respect their wishes, not judge and criticize and demoralize. As for your question… and please redirect me if I have misunderstood or misconstrued your question… I will leave your mention of the “pandemic caused by a respiratory contagion” left unsaid, because, as we are all well aware, we are in a COVID pandemic, and COVID is a contagion. My post(s) are, as I said before, intended to bring to light the subject of how people are being treated by people, specifically medical professionals, for the decisions they make and that it is not our place to do that. With that said, and so that I’m not accused of avoiding a question… again please redirect me if I have misunderstood it: Do I consider someone who chooses not to vaccinate or wear a mask or practice social distancing to be displaying disregard for others? Well that depends. I’ve already made my opinion on the choice to vaccinate abundantly clear. Should that unvaccinated person have to wear a mask? To address this specifically, I have to pose this viewpoint and question to you: That unvaxed person has made the the choice not to. Let’s say they have watched the television and heard from several medical professionals that masking does help decrease the rate of transmission, but then that person reads from what they believe to be a reputable medical source that the cloth masks that most people are wearing have a decidedly low efficacy percentage or success rate and is more or less pointless. This leads to my question back to you: Should you have the right to berate/judge/demean/demoralize or talk poorly about that person you see walking around the grocery store and judge that person because “you know better” and they are making what you have surmised to be a mistake? No, you don’t. And then I would point out in that same scenario, that no they are not showing a utter disregard for others. That person has done their research whether it’s from a reputable source or not and have made their God-given right to decide not to wear a mask in public. I could even go on to add another what-if… What if that person actually believes with all their being that they are not sick (even though we all know there are asymptomatic carriers) and decide they don’t need the mask because they believe if they do get it that they will be OK because they have no underlying health problems, are relatively healthy, and are willing to take that risk? That goes back to my multiple examples of noncompliant patients. And then there’s your point regarding social distancing. I personally believe that social distancing should always be practiced and should have been practiced before the entire pandemic even started. Maybe not so intensely but to some degree. I personally value my personal space and would much prefer someone keep their distance regardless.

Yes! Exactly my point! I’m not in the ER right now, but all settings have the repeat offenders. And you know you might as well go talk to the wall next to them because they don’t listen, but you keep doing it anyway. Due diligence. One day, you might get through to them. They might listen and actually make the effort or at least make an attempt to do better with their disease management. But until that time comes, you keep treating that person like any other patient…with care and respect. I come from a long line of nurses/doctors. I was taught to treat every patient as if they were my parent or grandparent or sibling, because they are someone’s family member. It doesn’t matter if they don’t care about themselves or choose not to do what needs to be done to take care of themselves. You keep caring and doing your best with them anyway. We took an oath to take care of these people. Too many have forgotten that or choose to ignore it. They judge the patient (or coworker) and treat them like they aren’t worth it…and I’m talking about in general as well as vax vs non-vax. I hear so many on social media (thankfully none where I work) saying that vax’d patients should get priority over non-vax’d (e.g. ICU beds, vents). It’s discriminatory and wrong on so many levels. If they did that with all noncompliant patients, we’d lose a large percentage of our population. And in regard to coworkers getting vax’d, I don’t think it should be mandated nor do I think the un-vax’d should be fired or alienated or demonized for choosing not to…as long as they are responsible about it. One thing I’m hearing too often is “if you’re a medical professional, you’re putting patients and others at risk for not getting vax’d.” That is piss-poor rationale that is used to belittle others for their choices that they should have the freedom to make. My reasoning behind my opinion on this is this: there are other diseases and health issues that put people at risk, whether it is direct (transmissible diseases) or indirect (increased healthcare costs, overworked staff, strained resources). As long as that medical professional uses appropriate precautions to keep patients and coworkers safe while still providing care, they should be able to practice. Should a medical professional with HIV not be able to practice? What about HepA or HepC or latent TB? The aforementioned indirect examples I gave are some of the exact ones used in arguments by aggressively-approaching medical and non-medical people who attack people for choosing to not get vax’d. I guess what I’m ultimately trying to say is, there isn’t a single person here or anywhere else for that matter who has the right to say anything to or judge anybody for their choice to take a vax or not (or for their voices in regard to my previously disease management compliance). At one time in my career, I was a vaccine nurse and coordinator, but I didn’t tell people to get or not to get the vax. I chose to take a neutral stance, educated the patient/family, and allowed THEM to make an educated/informed decision without fear of any judgment, retribution, or ridicule. And the whole political argument of Republican and Democrats in regard to vax’ing is utter nonsensical garbage. I personally know people who identify on either side of the political spectrum and all in between, some are vax’d and some aren’t. Some of the unvax’d people’s excuses for not taking it are just outright ignorant. However, some are actually educated and arguably justified with rational reasoning. Who am I to force my opinion aka truth on them? As long as they take the other precautions necessary to keep people around them safe, there is nothing to argue. It’s when you have those who choose to go into public with utter disregard for others, that we have a problem. Then they should be apprised or addressed, for example in the case with a man who knows he has AIDS and knowingly infects others out of spite or intent to harm. That of course is a whole other issue.

I don’t normally put myself under fire, but I just really feel like there are a few people that are being excessively judgmental towards people who chose not to do what we do. I guess I just try not to push what I think is the right thing into others and degrade those people for not choosing to do what I think is the right thing. I too am pro-vax. However, I can understand a woman who is in her prime, with young children at home, who chooses not to take the vax, because it is still being administered under the EUA. She isn’t being one of those tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorists. She just doesn’t take it because there are yet-to-be-fully-determined side effects and adverse reactions that she fears could happen to her, which could potentially lead to her becoming disabled and without the ability to care for her children and family. She would also be left with the financial burden that this could bring upon her family, and ultimately with no way of recouping her loss and gaining any sort of financial stability and compensation. Yes, I’m talking about a lawsuit. Assuming we are all educated, we know that accidents happen when risks are taken. I think the lady that I’m speaking of has every right to make that choice. I am also grateful that she’s does at least take measures and precautions to prevent spread of infection with her declination of the vax. After she explained her reason for refusing to take it, that there’s no one that can ultimately be held accountable if she were to have a scenario like this occur, it got me thinking… there are those anti-vaxers who compare choosing to take the vax with an abortion. I’ve heard it so many times that I couldn’t count. BUT… I can accurately compare someone choosing to not get the vax with other people…let’s say the person with diabetes who chooses noncompliance by not taking medications as directed and not exercising and not eating an appropriate diet… or the obese person who chooses not to exercise and eat right who develops multiple comorbidities… or the family who refuses to put their mother in a nursing home and allows her to continue to drive despite knowing she has dementia/Alzheimer’s… or the 22 year old who has been a type 1 DM their whole life who rotated through all the local hospitals with a glucose of 1200 and an endless cycle of going in and out of DKA while continuing to consume powdered donuts while being rolled in by EMS because their parents didn’t care so they don’t either… or the ESRD patient who skips dialysis too many times to count, has both legs amputated and keeps bedsores… or the chronic pain patient who’s in and out of rehab… I could go on and on. My point is that these people who choose to not vaccinate but are responsible about it, don’t deserve the derision and shaming. Nor do they deserve to be treated any differently. They deserve an ICU bed just like that vax’d COPD patient who’s on the vent because they can’t put the cigarettes down and the vax’d DKA patient who is noncompliant with everything and has a wreck while driving and killed somebody. Everybody’s decisions ultimately affect somebody else. Some of the most expensive diseases treated are diabetes, sepsis, renal failure, etc. That’s why medical treatment and medications and insurance is so dang high. So until we drag everybody to the witch-burning, we really should keep our judgments and ridicule to ourselves. We didn’t (or shouldn’t have) gone into the medical field to play judge and jury to people. We should be helping and educating while respecting people for their decisions, despite whether or not we think they’re wrong.

No, I’m not picking on LPNs… If you are comparing actual job performance and quality of care, then a nurse is a nurse. Period. If you are comparing what one nurse (like an RN) can do versus what another nurse can do (like an LPN), then I’d have to argue that a RN is (or should be) more qualified, capable, etc than that LPN. It doesn’t matter what setting you put those two nurses in, that RN should be paid more than the LPN. I have experience in ER/Trauma, Clinic, Pediatrics, Family Practice, Geriatrics, and Home Health. I am a RN and have worked with a LPN in every setting. And in each setting, there are just too many nursing duties that fall out of the LPN’s scope of practice (e.g. administration of certain medications, blood products, certain procedures, initial assessments, patient education/instruction). Even in home health, it is out of the LPN’s scope of practice to perform an initial assessment, therefore they are unable to perform OASIS visits (start of care, resumption of care, recertifications, discharges). Even in a clinic setting, an LPN can’t do what RN’s can do (such as IV administration of certain meds or initial assessment, medical teaching, and education to a patient and family). Now, with all that being said, a nurse’s experience needs to be taken into account. For example, when I was a baby nurse in the ER, there were a couple of the LPNs that could run circles around me, taught me so much, and were some of the greatest nurses I have ever known. And a few of them had been nurses for 20 to 30-something years. Those nurses probably made more than me, and justifiably so. They had been around much longer and had far more experience. But when you look at those nurses compared to me as a Spring chicken, I technically outranked them. I just didn’t think that way. I respected them for their experience and knowledge, not looked down on them because I went longer in nursing school. And after a few years, when I was able to run a code or handle a trauma on my own, making me even more experienced and knowledgeable, I STILL respected those veteran nurses. If those nurses hadn’t retired shortly after, I probably would’ve passed them with my pay increases for experience as well as my certifications eventually. Ultimately, none of that really mattered (to me anyway). What irks me more than anything is these sorry nurses that don’t do their jobs, making nurses look bad in general, as well as just ticking me off, because I’m one of those that actually care about the patient and family. I’m currently dealing with this myself as well as management acting like the numbers matter more than the quality of care. But then that’s a whole other rant about the same tiresome story of same ole crap but different day. ?

Hey. I'm not a nurse (just a student nurse), but I work as an ER tech. I couldn't help but notice this thread. I work as a sort of assistant to the ER manager. I used to help with chart audits...length of stay times...that sort of thing. But anyway, my boss (the ER manager) has been trying to get EMR. It looks very nice. And I feel that it would cut back on charting errors and that sort of thing. We currently have a lady who scans ER records and saves them to a program called Optimaxx. I hate it. It's not user friendly, and, half the time, nobody uses it. I would love to have EMR in our ER. Hopefully, one day, it will happen.