whipwreck82

Why do students voluntarily drop out? I'll share my 2 cents on why that is.... You know, im amazed at how some students will say or claim that they never open the textbook...... that all they do is read powerpoints, and note sheets......I guess that for any student, the thing to note is, this is going to vary from school to school, every program is very different, and every student learns differently. Some programs are "care bare schools, some programs put less of the reading responsibility on the student and more on the teachers, and most others are completely self taught" I went to LPN School, and RT School. I choose RT school over RN School because of 2 reasons, first I learned more about the profession working as an LPN, and I know many veteran RN's who regret doing it and when I was working as a PN, I found out why..... and secondly, I hated the culture of nursing schools, the self taught aspect, and the Nursing Model. The Nursing model was a bigger part of it than you would think. Personally, I did much better with the medical model. Nursing truely is an art, and its own subject....its unique from other medical professions on that, your not just remembering whats normal and abnormal, and applying it to your patient and problem solving....what your doing is ultimately managing the patients response to illness and taking into account the entire holistic picture, the psychosocial and all, which is Nursing's most distinguishing feature a.k.a "the Nursing model". With nursing, you have to understand the true function of the job, and for some reason...I dont feel Nursing instructors in general do a good job of coveying this concept what so ever. LPN School was very frustrating because of the type of NCLEX-PN style questions that have more than 1 right answer, sometimes 2 or 3 right answers and this is where you are constantly using that Nursing Process ...that ADPIE, and your remembering your ABC's and Maslow or Orem, or whatever theroist your school abides by....and of the 2 or 3 right answers, you have to pick the better one. I always criticzed this method of questioning because truthfully, ...you'll never really know if a student was right or not because you'll never know the rationale on why the student arrived there. When I went to RT School, there was only one answer for a majority of the questions, and we were assessed from a totally different prospective,....we had NBRC style questions which are also critical thinking as all health care fields were, but instead we were assesed on treating and managing our patient and its more science based and straight forward. There was only 1 right answer, occasionaly 2 lol ....Personally I found the medical model much easier, and RT in general, mainly because I was better in the physical sciences, and RT is much more science orientated. Plus with Nursing, you have to know so much more such as, charting and documentation, and the psychosocial and family issues. Lastly, Survival of Nursing school is not the last step......after you graduate, you have to survive the profession....and thats why I choose not to go get my RN . If you wonder why some instructors and Nurses are so mean, and tough sometime, its for a reason...believe me I know. But I also feel like some things are just not necessary. What is the point of testing students on things they never learned? What is the point of many instructors providing little or no guidance to students, and trying to run Nursing School like military school....or the Hunger Games? Why do Nursing Schools think its okay to admit a certain number of students and only graduate less than half and make tons of students think they have a chance in your program when they really dont because of work and life issues? With my school in particular....we never got rationales for questions, or any kind of a 1 on 1 sit down with our instructor to find out what went wrong on exams like some schools do.....and why is that necessary? The LPN program I was in, let me tell you something....I never imagined in a million years that it was gonna be that hard, and not just the program, but the career it self and if I would have known what I know now, I never would have done it....I would have went to school for something else.....Truthfully for many students, there is no way anyone can anticipate anything to be like that, despite all the research one does. Personally, Nursing Ed. needs to change, but I guess because many instructors who make it through themselves, I guess they feel nothing needs to change.

Let me tell you something.....I never freaking imagined in a million years that it would be this hard....not just school, but the profession, and i'll tell you something, if I would have known what I know now, I never would have done it, I would have gone to school for something else earlier

This is why I choose not to go for my RN after LPN School..... First, I have a major problem with the way Nurses are educated........my PN program was all self taught, and I wasnt going to pay one more penny to have an instructor read lecture slides to me word for word like its story time in kindergarden. I understand everyone self teaches, but how much is the question? Personally, Its pointless to come to class just to have instructors read from sheets to us, and I wasnt about to pay another penny for it..... What is so special about Nursing that they feel they need to create a culture of fear and intimidation, and graduate less than half of its students when other allied health programs and even medical school often have better retention rates. My RT program graduated 75% of the class, and my Cardiovascular perfusion program that im currently in has only lost 1 of 15.....with 1 more year to go.... Second of all, I disliked that Nursing School is like the Hunger games, "Survival of the Fittest", a Social Darwinism experiment, .....its like many programs and instructors want to turn Nursing into military school, and they wanna run students in to the ground and make their life a living hell and frighten them out of the profession, and thats not what Nursing is supposed to really be all about, .....especially for a program based on caring. Lastly, I hated my program, and was afraid it was like this everywhere. We got tested on things we never learned all the time, ...we never got rationales for our questions during exam review, and we hardly got exam reviews anyways. My instructors took 6 points off exams for missing even if you are sick with shingles, ....and their justification was, "if you miss, youre at an advantage" .....yea im at an advantage because studying is the first thing on my mind when my skin is burning hot. .....and my particular program was also disorganized....their were plenty of inconsistencies between the book and the notes, and made it even more difficult. I have plenty of respect for Nurses, but I hate the way they are educated. Its just not right some time......

Well there are always questions where there 2 or 3 like answers in very subject and you need to pick the best one. Or the Subjectiveness. To me Nursing just relies more on this particular style of question because the nature of practice is focused on the patients response...including the psych, emotional holistic picture. ....the Medical Model is much more science based, and doesnt rely on this method as much, but its there on occasion,....but I had an easier time, because its more science and medically based.....at least thats how I intrepreted it? The Medical Model and Nursing model are just completely different to me, based on my own expierences...... maybe I just had an easier time with it? Like I said, Nursing really is its own art and subject and is unique....to some people, its common sense, to others like me, its frustrating, and some, just simply dont get it.... The one thing about Nursing Theory and the Nursing Model is Nursing also has its own special things that are added to it like Fundamental Concepts, lifting and transferring, safety, charting, care planning and the Nursing Diagnosis.... This is not meant to be a flame, nursing diagnosis is a joke. It is like trying to reinvent the wheel. I became aware of this the first day it was brought up in nursing school. I was thinking, what the heck is this trying to do? After further analysis, all I could think of was, "trying to reinvent the wheel". Why would one describe dehydration as alteration in hydration status as evidenced by poor skin turgor or whatever? I have a lot of respect for nurses and the nursing profession in general, but nursing diagnosis......There is no need at all for it. Just my humble opinion.

This is a complex issue..... I mean it is normal to have grades drop.....and hey, you're still getting in the low to mid 80s?.....thats phenominal by Nursing School standards....you really just need to understand things about Nursing.... It's not necessarily that A+P is simple memorization, and Nursing is superior in all ways. A+P is not simple, ....and you dont want to downplay the difficulty of it. Of course, I have 400 and 500 level bio and anatomy course work under my belt, so I have a great respect for A+P, and the Biological Sciences, and my A+P came at a 4 year school and was a 300 level course, where many 2 yr colleges its a 100 level, and its a lot easier. You also need to understand that Nursing truely is its own art, and its own subject....its unique not just from Anatomy, but even other medical professions. And Nursing doesnt really require being good in A+P....to me A+P was uselsess when I started LPN School. You really only need the tip of the iceberg info ...and many of my classmates agreed....whats more important in Nursing is critical thinking and problem solving, and understanding the fundamentals of Nursing Theory. A lot of people simply dont get what Nursing Theory is all about, and what it's assessing on exams?! What your doing is ultimately managing the patients response to illness and taking into account the entire holistic picture, the psychosocial and all, which is Nursing's most distinguishing feature a.k.a "the Nursing model", which is a real m'fer if you ask me....I prefer the medical model myself. For me LPN School was very frustrating because of the type of NCLEX-PN style questions that have more than 1 right answer, sometimes 2 or 3 right answers and this is where you are constantly using that Nursing Process "... That Nursing Process is key....a lot of students never realize that you are ALWAYS being assesed on the nursing process. That ADPIE, Assessing, Documenting, Planning, Implementing, and Evaluation,.....and your remembering your ABC's and Maslow or Orem, or whatever theroist your school abides by....and of the 2 or 3 right answers, you have to pick the better one according to those concepts. It can be frustrating because you always feel like you can argue things with those questions, but many times, people dont get why they are wrong. I always criticzed this method of questioning because truthfully, ...you'll never really know if a student was right or not because you'll never know the rationale on why the student arrived there....and of course the same applies to RN school except a little harder. I went to RT School, there was only one answer for a majority of the questions, and we were assessed from a different prospective than Nurses were....we had NBRC style questions which are also critical thinking as all health care fields were, but instead we were assesed on treating and managing our patient. ....Personally I found the medical model much easier, and RT in general, mainly because I was better in the physical sciences, and RT is much more science orientated. Plus with Nursing, you have to know so much more such as, charting and documentation, and the psychosocial and family issues. I hate that Nursing Model lol

Yes Working is Nothing like Nursing School.......I said it, ....once you survive the school, ....dont think youre done, cause youre not.....far from it.....Now you gotta survive the profession, Nursing simply isnt get out and make 25/hr.....people never understand how difficult Nursing really is until they do it....thats why I became an RT instead of an RN.....after working as an LPN, I saw all I needed, .....At my facility, Nurses make 3-4 more an hour, and just for the amount of crap that a RN needs to deal with, it just isnt worth it to me, Bless the people that are doing it, because, your PT's need you

This is a complex issue..... I mean it is normal to have grades drop.....and hey, you're still getting in the low to mid 80s?.....thats phenominal by Nursing School standards....you really just need to understand things about Nursing.... It's not necessarily that A+P is simple memorization, and Nursing is superior in all ways. A+P is not simple, ....and you dont want to downplay the difficulty of it. Of course, I have 400 and 500 level bio and anatomy course work under my belt, so I have a great respect for A+P, and the Biological Sciences, and my A+P came at a 4 year school and was a 300 level course, where many 2 yr colleges its a 100 level, and its a lot easier. You also need to understand that Nursing truely is its own art, and its own subject....its unique not just from Anatomy, but even other medical professions. And Nursing doesnt really require being good in A+P....to me A+P was uselsess when I started LPN School. You really only need the tip of the iceberg info ...and many of my classmates agreed....whats more important in Nursing is critical thinking and problem solving, and understanding the fundamentals of Nursing Theory. A lot of people simply dont get what Nursing Theory is all about, and what it's assessing on exams?! What your doing is ultimately managing the patients response to illness and taking into account the entire holistic picture, the psychosocial and all, which is Nursing's most distinguishing feature a.k.a "the Nursing model", which is a real m'fer if you ask me....I prefer the medical model myself. For me LPN School was very frustrating because of the type of NCLEX-PN style questions that have more than 1 right answer, sometimes 2 or 3 right answers and this is where you are constantly using that Nursing Process "... That Nursing Process is key....a lot of students never realize that you are ALWAYS being assesed on the nursing process. That ADPIE, Assessing, Documenting, Planning, Implementing, and Evaluation,.....and your remembering your ABC's and Maslow or Orem, or whatever theroist your school abides by....and of the 2 or 3 right answers, you have to pick the better one according to those concepts. It can be frustrating because you always feel like you can argue things with those questions, but many times, people dont get why they are wrong. I always criticzed this method of questioning because truthfully, ...you'll never really know if a student was right or not because you'll never know the rationale on why the student arrived there....and of course the same applies to RN school except a little harder. I went to RT School, there was only one answer for a majority of the questions, and we were assessed from a different prospective than Nurses were....we had NBRC style questions which are also critical thinking as all health care fields were, but instead we were assesed on treating and managing our patient. ....Personally I found the medical model much easier, and RT in general, mainly because I was better in the physical sciences, and RT is much more science orientated. Plus with Nursing, you have to know so much more such as, charting and documentation, and the psychosocial and family issues. I hate that Nursing Model lol

Yes, money alone is no reason to become a Nurse! I cant tell you how many people have told me, I should have been an RN instead of an RT because "i'll make bank", and because of the advancement oppurtunities. I'll tell ya, for the amount of crap (literaly) an RN puts up with daily, the extra 2-4 an hour isnt worth it, and as far as advancing? The higher authority positions are hard to get, unless you know someone or youre well liked, ....right now I make 51k/yr for 36hrs a week, and hold a second per diem job for fun lol, ....and im quite happy. When I was working as an LPN, I had the interest in the patient care, but the b.s in the workplace, .....the coworkers, the management, on top of the physical stress, and the burnout.....truth be told, ...no psychological test in the world will ever help determine who's fit and not fit to become a nurse? Plus im sorry to say, but money does motivate a ton of people......anf those people just have no idea what their in for? Lets do an experiment? Lets pay Nurses like Social Workers, and then lets see how much we can contribute to the Nursing shortage lol?

I thought I would share my 2 cents on what I feel is the toughest part of Nursing School, and the profession......and i'll give some nice advice along the way as well.... You know, im amazed at how some students will say or claim that they never open the textbook...... that all they do is read powerpoints, and note sheets......I guess that for any student, the thing to note is, this is going to vary from school to school, every program is very different, and every student learns differently. Some programs are "care bare schools, some programs put less of the reading responsibility on the student and more on the teachers, and others are completelyt self taught" You know when I was in LPN school, I read everything, ....but I paced myself to 1 chapter a day.... my philosophy was "One Chapter a day, keeps the grades of "F" away" The Biggest thing though, no matter what was at end of the day, you have to really understand Nursing truely is its own art, and its own subject....its unique from other medical professions on that, your not just remembering whats normal and abnormal, and applying it to your patient and problem solving....what your doing is ultimately managing the patients response to illness and taking into account the entire holistic picture, the psychosocial and all, which is Nursing's most distinguishing feature a.k.a "the Nursing model" I went to LPN School, and RT School, and I will say for me LPN School was very frustrating because of the type of NCLEX-PN style questions that have more than 1 right answer, sometimes 2 or 3 right answers and this is where you are constantly using that Nursing Process ...that ADPIE, and your remembering your ABC's and Maslow or Orem, or whatever theroist your school abides by....and of the 2 or 3 right answers, you have to pick the better one. I always criticzed this method of questioning because truthfully, ...you'll never really know if a student was right or not because you'll never know the rationale on why the student arrived there. When I went to RT School, there was only one answer for a majority of the questions, and we were assessed from a totally different prospective,....we had NBRC style questions which are also critical thinking as all health care fields were, but instead we were assesed on treating and managing our patient. ....Personally I found the medical model much easier, and RT in general, mainly because I was better in the physical sciences, and RT is much more science orientated. Plus with Nursing, you have to know so much more such as, charting and documentation, and the psychosocial and family issues. That dreaded Nursing model, I hated, and for me I felt like that was the hardest part of Nursing school....and you know what, some people never get it, .....thats why Fundamentals or the very first semester of Nursing School is so important, and possibly the most important level of nursing school. If you fail Nursing,.....your not stupid, and it doesnt mean your not cut out for anything medical....I mean theres RT, X-Ray, Paramedic, Radiation Therapy, Med Lab Tech, PT.....plenty of options to go to....and dont think its your fault, ....in some cases, it could be your school, especially if you tried.....most people bash me for saying this, but personally, Im a firm believer of "theres no such thing as a bad student, just bad teacher", and if your in a program that graduates less than half of its students and has mediocre NCLEX Scores below 85%, then it could be your school.... so hope you pick a school with good NCLEX pass rates, an attrition rate of less than 40% and a good track record. Lastly, Survival of Nursing school is not the last step......after you graduate, you have to survive the profession....and thats why I choose not to go get my RN and went to RT school instead. I know plenty of Nurses who have been in the job a while, and plenty of them want out....so be sure Nursing really is for you. If you wonder why some instructors and Nurses are so mean, and tough sometime, its for a reason...believe me I know.

They do make nursing school a lot harder than it needs to be, and in my opinion Nursing education needs to change, but it never will lets be honest. I became an LPN over 10 years ago, and I am ever so thankful that opted to become a Respiratory Therapist instead of pursuing my RN, and I did this because I didn't want to put up with the unecessary Bull that Nursing School makes you go through. LPN School was rough enough, getting up at dawn and studing until dusk, and working through breaks and hollidays.....yea it was a long one year grind, and honestly I really loved the work when it came to the Nurse-Patient relationship..... There is not a more rewarding profession in the world for that reason, being that caring indivudal, at the bedside for someone who needs you at your best, because thats what nursing is supposed to be all about, not turning it into Military School and a Social Darwinism experiment. I hated the way we were educated...... the culture of fear and intimidation, and the scare tactics, and the instructors with the ego problem who wanted you to know, they own you. I could have done a 1 year RN transition program, but I choose Respiratory Therapy instead, because I could not take another year of Nursing school, and another thing was, I wanted out of the professsion after 4 years in. Hey for all you future LPN's and RN's reading, ....dont think for 1 second that survival ends with finishing Nursing school, ....after that you have to survive the profession. Yes I loved the profession when it came to the patient, but I hated the cut throat mentality of some of my co workers, along with the physical grind that it was, and a lot of the other B.S that a nurse puts up with, made me change careers. You know, I will say this: many people complain about Nursing School being so tough, but when you get in the field, you understand why. In all honesty, no health care field is easy, and if your looking for an easy healthcare school, or program, I sure as hell dont want you taking care of me,..... However even saying that, I still believe a lot of what is done in Nursing School is completelty unncessary. You know, there where will always be someone who says "well you have people's lives in your hands", yeah true, you do, and tell that to me especially being a ECMO-tech/ Respiratory Therapist ....in my particular position, if I screw up, its likely going to result in a fatal mistake, that I cant correct, but my RT program wasn't driven on fear and intimidation like my PN program, and I had to use "Critical Thinking too", but my instructors would also help me if I had questions, because it's better I ask, and be sure, than not ask and make a fatal mistake. It was organized, we had 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 clinicals. And for my lectures, my RT teachers actually taught, and guided us in the right directions. How does testing on material that was never mentioned in class help anyone? Hey, they didn't "hand feed" information to us, and we had to read too, but we got more than enough from lecture to get by like it should be because we're paying money to be here. I hear people in RN School all the time say, "If I have to do all the work and self teach myself, then please tell me, what's the point of me coming to class to get a lecture that doesnt even emphasize the majority test content, and listen to an instructor read from a sheet, because I can do that on my own time?" Unfortunately to me, it seems like Nursing Schools today from what I hear are more about survival of the fittest if anything, and thats a shame because its not what Nursing is supposed to be all about. This is why Nursing School Attrition is so high in many schools, and its ridiculous. Medical Schools and Allied Health programs have peoples lives in their hands too. Yet many of these programs have much lower attrition than Nursing. We have schools that have attrition rates well above 50% or more, while every other healthcare program I know of can graduate 70-80% of it's students, why cant nursing? Today my decision not to bridge to RN worked out well for me, because I'm currently in school to become a Cardiovascular Perfusionist, and btw...I will always have the highest respect for Nurses....well at least the good ones who are doing it for the right reasons, whom every patient needs!