Dolphin777

> Just curious, but are nurses afraid to work in neighborhoods with minorities? And what is so scary about making a home visit where a family member/friend happens to be mentally ill? Mentally ill folks are no more dangerous than regular folks.

> I am sorry to hear about your mother and hope she is better. I would also like to thank you for taking the time to write a civil reply. It did shed some light on the problem I experienced in the ER and the hospital with my family member. I also felt some sympathy for you in your earlier post about how bad you feel when you cannot give the type of care you'd like to give because of time constraints and trying to care for multiple very sick patients at the same time.

So what is everyone getting their kids for christmas, I am ashamed to say I haven't even started shopping yet....... >> Not surprised. If nurses won't bring patients their pain medicine promptly, they sure won't be shopping for Christmas presents the first week of November.

> Sooooooo, are you saying that my loved one did not have to wait 8 hours for pain and nausea medicine?????? The best way to discount someone is to label them mentally ill. Are you saying that my family member's call bells were all answered promptly and that I am imagining everything I reported?

> What exactly was happening immediately before this incident took place?

> What did you do to make him so angry? I worked at a state hospital during college and I was never assaulted and neither were any of the other students.

>

My loved one had to wait in agony for 8 hours in the ER before they received pain and nausea medication. As I mentioned in a previous post, I worked at a state hospital during college and we had attendants who were high school graduates (in a few cases, high school dropouts) and one attendant would prepare medication for 30 patients two or three times on the day shift. I was stunned to learn that only an RN was allowed to give my family member pain and nausea medication when it would have been a simple matter to have an aide or assistant in the ER help out. Just curious, but if I was a doctor, politician, or baseball player, would my family member have had to wait that long?

> Actually, that is a very good idea and I would have no problem giving a nurse a tip if he or she provided good service. When my family member was in the hospital, I became friendly with another woman who also had a loved one in the hospital. She told me how she was bringing donuts to the nurses everyday in order to ensure her family member got good care. Pretty sad, isn't it? If nurses simply responded to patients' and visitors' requests, there wouldn't be so much anger directed at them.

I travel on business several times a year and the hotels are usually less than $200 per day. In contrast, the typical hospital room costs around $1,000 per day not including all the extras. I am not the type of person to make alot of demands on the hotel staff, but when I call for something I expect an answer by the 3rd or 4th ring. At no time has any hotel employee failed to provide decent service. In contrast, I had a family member in the hospital earlier in the year and there were numerous occasions when their call bell went unanswered or there was a very long wait for a nurse to respond. On one occasion, the dinner tray wasn't even delivered. There is simply no excuse for nurses not responding to call bells with the same efficiency one would get in the typical hotel. If anything, they ought to provide better and faster service because the hospital is charging way more than a hotel. Nurses whine about all the "work" they have. Well, guess what? I worked at a state hospital all four summers in college and we had ONE attendant (yes, that's what they were called) prepare medication for 30 patients two or three times on the day shift (only once on the evening shift). I just don't understand all the whining and complaining about getting medications for only 5 patients.

> Several posters have asked me whether I think it would be all right to let someone expressing suicidal ideation leave the ER, even if they went on to commit suicide. My answer to their questions is YES. You would not detain someone against their will if they announced they were planning to gain 100 pounds and smoke 3 packs a day of cigarettes, would you? Well, if someone states they want to kill themselves, 9 times out of 10 it is a desperate cry for help, a figure of speech, and they need the psych & ER staff to address the REAL, underlying problems instead of using restraints and other degrading measures. As for the 72 hour hold, those 72 hours only apply to Monday through Friday excluding holidays. If a mental patient arrives the Friday evening before a major holiday weekend, that 72 hours could very easily turn into a one week prison sentence in the psych unit. A whole lot of bad stuff could happen in that one week, or "just" those 72 hours: 1)college student could flunk an exam or get hopelessly behind in their courses and have to drop out of school, 2)working stiff could lose their job, 3)single parent could lose custody of their children, 4)caregiver of a sick spouse or elderly parent could end up with their loved one placed in a nursing home, 5)person could end up homeless as a result of being unable to pay their rent or mortgage. One of the saddest cases I heard involved a single, childless woman who had three cats. She was locked up in a psych hospital, missed her rent payment, and the landlord went into her apartment, found her cats and took them to the pound where they were euthanized. When this poor woman got home after her psychiatric incarceration, her pets were gone. She soon learned they were dead. Who in their right mind could possibly think this woman was "helped" by the psychiatric staff who imprisoned her, prevented her from paying her rent, and caused her beloved animal companions to be put to death courtesy of the landlord and local pound?????

> Yes, you did. Please re-read my post. I described situations where a psych patient expressing suicidal ideation tries to leave the ER without being evaluated. Even if they peacefully get up to leave they will be threatened with restraints.

> Good example of health care workers and uncaring families. When my cat was dying of a stroke, the vet and a nurse were there along with me and my mother (and this animal hospital was very busy, too, but they still made time to comfort a dying cat). Whoever put that patient in restraints deserves to burn in Hell for eternity.

> There is a HUGE difference between legitimate suffering from existential anguish, as seen in people with the Axis II personality disorders, versus people who are nuts because of a biological defect in their brains. The former group is the one I am concerned about; I realize if someone is out of their skull because of using angel dust or crack or from the truly biological mental illnesses, they may get violent and need restraints to protect innocent people. There are numerous scenarios in which innocent people experiencing legitimate mental anguish are degraded by ER and psychiatric staff by being treated as mental patients instead of human beings with real problems. What about someone with borderline-narcissistic personality disorders who loses their job and livelihood and then their marriage or relationship breaks up? What about someone with borderline personality who is upset because of the death of a loved one combined with trouble at work or in a relationship? These people may naively turn to an ER thinking they would get someone to talk to, only to realize they are lumped in with the mentally ill and don't appreciate the degradation and humiliation that entails. If they decide to leave the ER after simply expressing suicidal ideation they can rest assured the security guards will be called and they will be given the "choice" of staying and being seen by some inexperienced resident or social worker with a pitiful masters degree OR ending up in restraints if they try to leave without being "evaluated". In teaching hospitals, insult is added to injury when the intimate details fo their lives are used as teaching material for students. It is downright insulting for people with the Axis II personality disorders, many of whom are very well-educated and with successful careers, to be degraded by ER and psych staff and being put into the role of mental patient.

A few years ago I went on an architecture tour of the new Hospital Where Patients Come First, and our guide pointed out two orange padded cells in the ER for the psychiatric patients. We sure have come a loooooong way in eliminating the stigma of mental illness, right?