skaosiris

I don't actually give much consideration to the telemarketers because they chose their jobs and damn well know what it means to be a telemarketer and how much it offends and annoys many people. I mean this is very widely understood--telemarketers are the bain of nearly everyone's existence! If they want this type of work, then they need to be prepared to deal with the annoyed customer. Just my thought.

Hi, Okay, lets see. We are definitely the richest country in the world, but we are NOT the most educated. In most other industrialized countries, usually, the citizens can speak more than one language--we cannot even get half of our population to speak english (our native language) anywhere near correctly. Unlike other countries, we do not know history too well and we do not value education nearly as much as we should except for its ability to increase our chances of obtaining employment. Regarding corporations, we are now to believe that THEY have high tax rates--compared to what? Rediculously high workman's comp rates? Right, why should we care about someone who was injured on the job. Workman's comp does not even pay 100% of what the employee was making. Finally, half the reason kids today expect that the world owes them something is because advertising (corporate america ) tells them they deserve it and that they've got to have this particular thing. Even though many corporations are not trying to be sleazy per say, their line of thinking leads them right down that path anyway. What would you expect to happen when increasing profits, decreasing costs, and keeping the business afloat are THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS to the business. I have worked in many businesses and do you know what I have found? I have found the businesses themselves will tell you that they will let people go because payroll is the biggest expense they have--or they will have their work done in another country. We have been duped into not even noticing the twisted nature of believing that the business is all important. This non-entity, an abstract idea, really just a front for the rich owners, is more important than the people who work for them. As for me, I won't shop at Walmart ( unlike their claim, little of what they sell is made in america and they treat their employees like shit as is reflected in their pay and benefits--I know since I worked their for a little while before my first clinical job), my car is made in Japan, and I do not go to McDonalds (one of the "Big Three" in sleazy fast food chain restaurants). What about the the Ceo's of some asian countries that take pay cuts rather than lay off people when its time for the business to tighten its belt? Gee, I wonder if its because the employer sees the benefit of retaining its employees so that the business still has a chance of doing well. I wonder if they feel some measure of responsibility to their employees. I wonder if these business realize that these are their people and throwing citizens out on the street so that you can make even more money is very short sighted to say the least. I wonder how it is that those of you in favor of corporate america don't see it as sleazy that many companies will hire only part time employees so that they do not have to give them benefits. Why does even our federal government give one month vacation a year to its employees STARTING WITH THEIR VERY FIRST YEAR, but nearly every private company give only two weeks until many years have passed? Yes, I believe that everyone should be responsible, productive, and accountable, but I am so tired of these pro big business people spewing nonsense about, essentially, 'Survival of the Fittest'. We are not a nomadic society, vagabonds, nor wild animals living in the woods. WE ARE A CIVILIZATION--WE NEED TO BE TAKING CARE OF ONE ANOTHER AS WELL AS TAKING CARE OF OURSELVES. We have become this so that we as a whole survive and grow--like one big family and families look out for one another. This 'every man for himself' thing will not work for us humans--sorry to tell you. As I have mentioned in other posts, I know that for the most part, the differences between democrats and republicans is largely a thinly veiled distraction. It is the same age old class war where differences are contrived to be important to keep us fighting while the CEOs take all the money and as long as we allow this, yes, RAPING to continue, everthing detrimental to our society will grow and everything beneficial will dwindle. Someone on this board mentioned an understanding, perhaps which they cited from somewhere, of the meaning of wealth. Wealth is not a certain amount of money, it is the sense that one no longer needs to be in survival mode anymore--that their basic needs will be met--yes with effort and sometimes resistance from natural occurences, not with resistance from our own kind. This is so that, as humans and unlike the other animals on this planet, we can devote our time to more intellectual pursuits and goals, do greater things, and become more than we are. Many times it has been mentioned by some on this board that without capitalism, big corporations, and the money to be had from it, what would be the incentive for anyone to work hard or at all? I am 36 yrs old and not an idealistic child, but are we so far gone that we cannot even see how we could be productive without greed as a motivator? Is this how we choose our friends and mates for life, too? Should we believe or accept the fact that humans in this country are motivated by greed, fear, hate, and desire? Do ethics, morality, compassion, or character even enter into the human equation anymore? I am pretty sure that this latter set does not usually enter into the equation for businesses, but it should for us--especailly for nurses. Bye for now.

I actually can't believe you are a nurse. I fail to see how somebody as dogmatic and judgemental as you can give equitable nursing care to all who come through your door. Or do you only look after the conservatives? Nursehardie by the way (aka Joe Stalin) is a very astute, intelligent person. You should pay attention! I agree completely, DavidFR. I Don't wish to be hurtful, but I would truly be worried as a patient if someone who thought like KitKat were my nurse. Actually, I would be worried as a nursing assistant if someone with those views were my nurse.

WyomingRN, I agree with just about everything you said, especially about the government having to abide by the laws. I just think in this instance, it is pointless. Everyone in Ohio thinks they are a state and all the states immediately surrounding Ohio have clearly defined boundaries and are not in a dispute with Ohio over this matter. They are american citizens. What should we do other than to try to correct the situation, as they did in 1953? Should we remove them from that area and take away their citizenship? Try to undo what was done by presidents from those states? Its over--lets just make sure something like that does not happen again.

Kitkat, Ofcourse I read your post--I would not have missed it for the world. Seriously, I read it and I am glad that you wrote it. I am glad you wrote it mainly because you demonstrated some degree of concern for people in general. And you are very knowledgeable when it comes to american history and civics---even if I remembered as much from history I think I might have expired before I was able to write that much! I agree with nearly everything you said and quoted and I certainly still agree with most of the constitution. As I mentioned earlier, I have been exposed to a few different religions and I am not so sure that christianity has all the answers. Actually, indian philosophy (I mean from India--not native american) is the most interesting for me because of one of their primary beliefs. They believe that if you reject anyone's philosophy that you will never know the truth, that you will never have all the pieces to the puzzle since there is at least a little truth in all beliefs. But I digress. You mentioned that the Constitution promotes responsibility in our representatives. I am sure it is intended to, but our representatives are not particularly responsible since they fail often to represent us rather than money. The people who would have a significant impact on our lives and who might lead by example ( politicians, government, business heads) do not seem to have much moral character at all. There is still widespread political curruption just as there was during the "Progressive Era". Perhaps culture, rather than economics does determine if a free society prevails, But our culture and economics are being controlled by big business and the media--that is not good. Finally, toleration, empathy and sincerity are NOT "value neutral". So your final question was "how do we develop a moral ecology appropriate for a free society?" I like this part--rather than feuling anger, we work on a solution. It seems to me that to influence our morality as had to be done before slavery was abolished as you mentioned, we would need to believe in those who sought to influence us. Since most of us consider those in power ( business or government) to be relatively devoid of moral character or the desire to do what is right rather than what is lucrative, this would prove to be impossible. I will not suggest that anyone is perfect or saintly, but it seems to me that the liberal way of thinking (or at least my way of thinking) is much closer to the virtues you spoke of and the ideals upheld in the Constitution than the line of thinking that many conservatives and nearly all business men follow. I whole heartedly agree with teaching a man to fish so that he may eat for a life time rather than giving a man a fish so that he may eat only for a day. If our own people keep dumping toxic waste into the water from which we fish, then man searches for a different type of food (or economic system). In this country we have allowed these greedy business men to become so wealthy and powerful that I sometimes fear that the only thing that will stop the pollution of the water would be some kind of revolt. Who wants that? So that is why many liberals try to convince conservatives that we think many of their ways of thinking are dangerous. This is why economics seems still as important as culture, because economics is being used against us by some very powerful people. As long as we believe the lies that the free market such as it is with the players such as they are is the way to go, the things that you and I seek ( or seek to return to) will never be realized. I sometimes allow myself to believe that conservatives and liberals have the same goals, but approach them from two totally different angles--I don't allow myself to believe this too often! Randy

In this case, it isn't the government that is mostly responsible for our jobs going overseas, it is the usual greedy conservative business heads that are the cause. BTW, Walmart is a HUGE offender in this area. Companies have chosen to do this of their own accord, because the labor is cheaper for them elsewhere. Its business as usual--increase profits at all cost and who cares about the people (even in our own country). THAT is what is anti-american, yet these are often the same people that pretend to cherish the Constitution. The way I see it, if you protect the rights of everyone--that is american, if you protect the rights of only the greedy--that is anti-american! Whatever you want to call it--socialism, capitalism, or communism, they are merely tools to get us to where we want to go. They are economic systems to be used as we deem necessary, they are not codes to live by. Similarly, our political systems and even the Constitution itself is really only a tool. As awesome a document as it is, it has amendments to it for a reason and I am sure there will be more. As we move forward, we willl continue to see how it needs to be changed since those who created it could not have forseen all that is to come. Hence, it seems inappropriate to think that someone is anti american if they don't agree with everything in it. How exactly did slavery fit into the Constitution?

Other than being fun in a Trivial Pursuit game I can't imagine why the "Ohio Connection" is anything at all to worry about. Just about every person on the planet accepts that it is a state. So someone messed up either intentionally or not and now it is corrected. Are we worried that these people from Ohio are really alien spies from Neptune out to destroy our planet or something? Oh, capitalism isn't performing too well either, at least not in this country.

reply to nurses and politics Hi, Kitkat and All. Being compelled to interject again. I am a nursing assistant and a medical assistant who thinks often about what would be best for the world, so this thread, ofcourse, interested me. You mentioned that western europe and the leftists in this country loathe work and care more about good ideas than they do about people. You also mentioned that it seems to you that most nurses seem liberal to you and you feel somewhat alone in your political views when in their presence. I would agree that, as someone else on this board alluded to, most nurses ( and teachers, social workers, and other less business related fields are) are probably liberal. I'm quite sure that you see where I am going with this. Do you think that your fellow liberal nurses are these work-loathing, uncaring people who won't really DO anything other than spout what they consider to be good ideas? Is it the teachers, nurses, scientists, journalists and social workers that care about and help move our country forward with thinking and doing individuals or is it the marketing majors, used car salesmen, accountants, and business tycoons that accomplish this? A point that you may have overlooked is that the kind of work load that businesses expect of us pions these days is approaching the amount of work they forced on the japanese until recently when they literally started dying from being overworked. Imagine the audacity of France to have only a legal 35 hour work week! in this country, most businesses operate as if one were working in the emergency room. Your adrenaline is constantly pumping, which as i am sure you are aware being a nurse is literally toxic to one's body. All this extra work we do is not for anyone's benefit other than some rich fat CEO who loves capitalism so much. It is not human to work like that, especially when it is for the wrong reasons. I have found that all economic and political systems work well on paper and none of them work well in practice. I just wish people would stop insisting that ours is so much better than everyone elses, when it is in fact only different and not much better--greedy people are everywhere and they are the reason that no system works well. So we don't have a dictator, we have a few dictators--people who believe in things like Darwinism ( you know--survival of the fittest). Well there is one hole in this man's theory--if you take this theory to its logical conclusion ( keep weeding out less than the best from the group), you are soon left with one person and the end of the human race. I, for one, am glad that most nurses are liberal. Thanx for listening

reply to nurses and politics Hi, Kitkat and All. Being compelled to interject again. I am a nursing assistant and a medical assistant who thinks often about what would be best for the world, so this thread, ofcourse, interested me. You mentioned that western europe and the leftists in this country loathe work and care more about good ideas than they do about people. You also mentioned that it seems to you that most nurses seem liberal to you and you feel somewhat alone in your political views when in their presence. I would agree that, as someone else on this board alluded to, most nurses ( and teachers, social workers, and other less business related fields are) are probably liberal. I'm quite sure that you see where I am going with this. Do you think that your fellow liberal nurses are these work-loathing, uncaring people who won't really DO anything other than spout what they consider to be good ideas? Is it the teachers, nurses, scientists, journalists and social workers that care about and help move our country forward with thinking and doing individuals or is it the marketing majors, used car salesmen, accountants, and business tycoons that accomplish this? A point that you may have overlooked is that the kind of work load that businesses expect of us pions these days is approaching the amount of work they forced on the japanese until recently when they literally started dying from being overworked. Imagine the audacity of France to have only a legal 35 hour work week! in this country, most businesses operate as if one were working in the emergency room. Your adrenaline is constantly pumping, which as i am sure you are aware being a nurse is literally toxic to one's body. All this extra work we do is not for anyone's benefit other than some rich fat CEO who loves capitalism so much. It is not human to work like that, especially when it is for the wrong reasons. I have found that all economic and political systems work well on paper and none of them work well in practice. I just wish people would stop insisting that ours is so much better than everyone elses, when it is in fact only different and not much better--greedy people are everywhere and they are the reason that no system works well. So we don't have a dictator, we have a few dictators--people who believe in things like Darwinism ( you know--survival of the fittest). Well there is one hole in this man's theory--if you take this theory to its logical conclusion ( keep weeding out less than the best from the group), you are soon left with one person and the end of the human race. I, for one, am glad that most nurses are liberal. Thanx for listening

Ceecel.dee, I agree with your entire post, except, unfortunately, I think that in many other areas in the States, the 'average joe" does not think nurses should be making that much. I find it nauseating that that pro sports players and celebreities make as much as they do ( even more than the President! I know in this case we did not actually elect our president, but....), but the sad fact is that it is us ( well, not me actually) who pay so much money for tickets to support these celebreties and sports players. However, we rant and ***** about how a hospital charges too much money. Anyway, that was all. Bye.

Hi, everyone. First off--who generates these great diverse round face icons? they're very cool. Anyway, i wanted to be sure I understood what everyone was saying about "trolls". Please forgive me if I've misunderstood, but it seems like several people are indicating that if one's topic is "controversial", that the smart thing to do would be to avoid it. It seems to me that we should do the opposite. It seems that not working out the tough controversial topics might leave everyone swimming in apathy. I definitely see that we as nurses and as a society should be together and support each other, a notion that for many necessarily creates an "us and them". To oversimplify for brevity, maybe the smart capable compassionate caring nurses vs the big "meanies" ( perhaps corporate america and even some ignorant patients). I think many people feel very strongly about this sort of thing (including me) and see it as a very serious problem in many ways and for many reasons. I think many times these people are posting and replying to posts of this nature not to stir things up, but because they are truly concerned. Having said that, ofcourse it is also true that some people post just to stir things up. i just didn't think it made sense to judge the difference by deciding if it was controversial or not. I think doing so would be contrary to solving certain issues. Again my apologies if I've inferred poorly from these posts. -- skaosiris

Hi--adding a few more cents. As a LNA and MA, I have seen family members get in the way many times and pester the nursing staff or demand things or order things as if they were in a restaurant! I do not want to be misunderstood--this is not most of the time, but it is increasing and it is a hinderence to taking care of the patient. Most families are perfectly nice, understanding, unobtrusive and concerned for their loved one. The ones that are in your face and scrutinizing your every move thinking they know what they are talking about because they saw something on ER are increasingly annoying. For my own part, if being nice does not work, I will tell the family members that they need to leave for a few minutes because they are in my way ( I say it half jokingly ofcourse). The reasons for this reach back to another note I posted to this website: we keep treating patients and families like customers rather than like patients. As has been mentioned in this site, being a good nurse is not synonymous with being a good corporate employee! As i've said before, patients ( and families) are real people and real people(families) need to be told to back off when they are crowding you. Part of the reason "customers are so daring is because of that thoroughly disgusting mantra that the "customer is always right". Also, as was mentioned in this site, another reason for these types of problems is that magazines ( like Reader's Digest) constatnly advise that as a customer, not only should you participate in your own healthcare (which I completely agree with), you keep pestering your nurse or doctor until you get what you want; until you get that test result or that glass of gingerale you asked for a full 3 minutes ago!. These articles never bother to mention that the lack of money, timeliness, and staff are not usually the fault of the healthcare professional and usually not in their control. It usually IS the fault of the other wonderful elements of our healthcare system such as insurance and pharmacutical companies, and other corporations that buy a nursing home mererly to try to make money which they do by cutting staff as soon as they purchase it ( trust me--I,ve seen this happen a couple of times in places I have worked.) And sorrry to all of you "lay people" that may be reading this, but the federal government (medicare) is the worst insurance company of them all. Hospitals and doctor's offices are reinbursed the least from medicare than any other insurance company for the care they provide to you. Many people do not realize that insurance companies are guarding all the doors to healthcare access and they are holdiing all the keys. They have immense control over how a doctor's office or hospital is run--we are always jumping through hoops for them trying to get a test payed for (covered) for our patients. I have one more point to make here, which is really getting off the subject, but I can't stop myself--often my mind does not work even this fluidly! Some patients need to be more patient. Too many people think the world owes them something and that like McDonalds, we shoud have drive thru medicine and that healthcare should be a convenience--it isn't and nor should it be. Healthcare is to help people get well and stay well, and it should be one of the more important things in which a person participates. The point of healthcare ( even just a doctor's office visit for a really bad cold) is not fix you in 5 minutes so you can get home before your favorite program starts or get back to work before the pile on your desk grows anymore. Convenience stores operate on this premise, not healthcare. I do not want this to came out like an attack on anyone, but these (dare I say) truths need to be out there. The "evil" powers that be are counting on healthcare professionals to not mention things like this, we are informally nudged away from this by being made to feel this is inappropriate. After all, how could a caring and compassionate healthcare professional say such things--they are counting on our guilt. I hear heliocopters above--Big Brother has come for me for writing this note--I gotta go...bye...

Just a few cents about this subject. I am a male nursing assistant and a medical assistant and as usual, I have an opinion:rolleyes: I agree with much that is written here and I think it applies to other professions as well (such as social work, teaching, police work, etc). No one in corporate america sees spending money on peple as lucrative--they don't think it generates more money nor provides many if any ways for someone to cut in on the action. The fact that these services are tremendously helpful and needed for our citizens is, ofcourse, irrelevant to them. There are nursing shortages everywhere, but there is no shortage of salesman on a car lot. Who can make a decent living as a high school teacher? Hardly anyone, but if you want to become a pro ball player (please fill in the desired specific sport), then you too can own a million-dollar home. Unfortunately, this says alot about our general society as well--many people want to spend money only on tangible and fun things, not things that are necessary or require effort, work, or time. Okay, I'll jump of my soap box now. Thanx, Randy