RN_Canada

Fiona59..things are NOT the same across Canada. So once again we are seeing that things change in each province in Canada My inquiry to CRNBC: ] This response from the College of Registered Nurses of British Columbia. Which simply leaves us with the caveat that we have all referred to many times in these forums. For internationally educated nurses ...PLEASE go to the website for the provincial nursing organization and if the information is not there for you then, contact the college or association for that province and see what they say.

It is much easier to get registered and much easier to immigrate if you have work experience as a nurse. Paid employment is not the requirement it is nursing experience. As long as you can prove that the experience you have was nurses' work then it should count. Check with the college or association in the province you want to work in.

Thanks Fiona, I did realize that but just wanted to offer information about other provinces to point out that it is handled slightly differently in every province. Some provinces in Canada will accept nurses with no degrees but others will not. The caveat for all provinces really is apply and see what they say.

A degree is an entry to practice requirement in all of Canada but each province applies this requirement differently for internationally educated nurses. If you apply for registration without a degree you will likely be put through a Substantially Equivalent competency assessment which is being used in many of the western provinces. This will determine if you meet the requirements or not. In is unlikely that Ontario would accept your application for an RN license and would probably recommended to write for RPN (registered Practical Nurse) license. So you simply have to apply and see what they say.

if you already have a degree in psychology my advice would be to become a registered nurse and specialize in mental health as you will have more career opportunities. Psychiatric nursing is not recognized in all provinces in Canada. if you are interested in education in BC check out the new BSN2 program at Kwantlen Polytechnic University. It is an online degree program for students to transition to the field of nursing if you have another degree. It might be just what you are looking for.

to my knowledge all provincial regulatory nursing organizations require that you be a registered nurse in your country of origin in order to apply for registration here in canada. if you are not already registered in the philippines then you are not eligible to apply for a registered nursing license here in canada. some provinces allow you to apply for a license as a practical nurse with "equivalent" education so this might be something to explore with the regulatory body for practical nurses in nova scotia (i think they might be called rna's there - not sure). they assess your education and make a determination if you meed the required standards and competencies and then give permission to write the cpnre you need to go the website for employment in the health region. they will often have a section for international applicants. other than that you follow the same process for employment as anyone else. if the employer wants to hire you they make an offer of employment and they can sponsor you if that is necessary for the temporary work permit. their human resources department will have the information they need to expedite that.

i know the intention of the post was to indicate that rn's have a broad scope of practice in er's in canada. certainly the job of triage and other emergency nursing roles carries great responsibility for decision-making intervention and collaboration... but i thought i should point out that technically there is no registered nurse in canada who practices to a full scope of practice because the legislated scope is much to broad to be contained in a single job description. nursing practice in canada includes acute hospital care, long term care, outpatient care, home care, and community assessors, research, community health and community care. the number of jobs however, that occur in all those setting are minute. by far the majority of nursing jobs occur in one or maybe two of those settings so it would be hard to generalize that a nurse in an emergency setting works to "full scope".

You can have a dual license...however, you can never give up your obligation to work according to professional standards. So with dual license if you work as an LPN, you get paid as a LPN and you do LPN work within their legislated scope of practice, but you would be expected to work under your RN professional standards. If you have a RN license you cannot abrogate those standards.

an rn is not held to a higher standard...they are held to the standards that are established for their profession. in my jurisdiction (which is british columbia canada) the standards are very similiar.... but it is the scope of practice that is different. each nurse must practice within their own legislated scope of practice and that scope of practice must be conducted within the professional standards that are set by the college (of nurses) true... an lpn works under their own license. they are responsible and accountable for their own actions. an rn is also responsible and accountable for their own actions. therefore an rn must assign or delegate responsibly and make sure that the process of assignment or delegation is done properly as that is within their scope of practice. if they did not attend to this process properly then, yes they can be held responsible for the outcome as surely as if they did not carry out the process of medication administration correctly. and since the lpn scope of practice is completely within the rn scope of practice i fail to see how an lpn could legally supervise an a nursing professional who has a much wider and broader scope of practice. either the rn failed to supervise properly or there is a systemic issue and there are not enough rns on duty to provide the supervision that is necessary, or the employer hired someone who was not competent enough to do the job or... situations such as the one described here are rarely due to individual shortcomings and are much more likely due to systemic shortcomings. a proper investigation should provide the necessary information to correct the systemic problems that led to such a disaster.

that is my point...well not quite. they can be compared, but of course they are different because canada and the usa are different countries, with different cultures, and vastly different value systems that underpin the regulatory framework of nursing. you and i might know this but internationally educated nurses do not. and of course i am seeking to understand what drives the american system as my only experience and understanding is canadian. what are the values and what is the regulatory framework? i was especially interested in the link provided by ccrn_marie that the california board of nurses has competency standards whereas in canada we have professional standards. hmmmm.... i think they are different? honestly... i get it that we are not helping the original poster by taking the discussion in this direction but it is an important discussion don't you think?

well if the regulations that exist under legislation required public protection then they cannot do this. they can only determine if a person who applies for a license has met the standard to qualify for that license. once this is determined then they can grant permission to write the exam and license the applicant. if the mandate of public protection is entrenched in regulation (that exists under legislation) labour market forces should have no influence whatsoever. and isn't this my original point that profits should not enter into the equation of public protection? an organization that is charged with the protection of the public (under legislation) should not allow profit to influence their decisions. that is not only a conflict of interest it is immoral and not in accordance with the code of ethics for nurses, especially in canada where nurses are required to work in the interest of the public, no matter who the employer is.

you and i know this but apparently nurses from other countries don't. i will reiterate my original comment that this is not in the mandate of professional regulation for public protection so i guess the real question is who is monitoring this? and why are they allowed to get away with this? to me this seems to be the larger issue in this whole matter.

Thanks for the response... I am simply going by my own lived experience here in Canada. The regulatory bodies do not exist to make money, they exist under legislation to ensure that nurses who provide care for the Canadian public meet the requirements that have been set for public protection. The fact that there may or may not be jobs is not a factor in regulation...that is a labour market issue. Increasing the number of applicants they process in order to make money is a conflict of interest and outside of the legislated mandate of public protection

what does the economy have to do with it? there should be no influence on the licensing of nurses other than making sure they meet requirements that are in place for public protection. labour forces should not be an influence on obtaining a nursing license. getting a license is one thing...getting a job is completely different.

I am outraged at what you have described. If you have passed the CRNE and obtained a nursing license in BC this should be recognized in Alberta. If your husband is working there and has relocated I would contact his MLA for some help with this. It is not acceptable - CARNA cannot just take who they want to take, they have to accept your application just as they would have to accept mine.

The Internationally Educated Nurse Assessment Center was put in place at Kwantlen Polytechnic University after the government awarded the contract to them, and in late 2008 some SEC's were being done but the center started at full capacity in 2009

If you have graduated as a nurse in the Philippines you should not have to go to school again. You should be able to apply for registration as a PN through the College of Nurses on Ontario. They will asses your eligibility to take the exam (CPNRE). I am not sure why the work experience is an issue? Everybody starts somewhere even Canadian graduates.

WOW! if this doesn't sum up the differences in culture between the US and Canada I don't know what does!

I am not sure why that should be considered a benefit. Hopefully you are not coming to work while you are under the influence anyway - no matter what country you work in. You see here in Canada we expect that people will police themselves and not come to work if they are unable to fulfill their responsibilities of public protection. RN's are required under provincial standards to work in the public interest and maintain their own fitness to practice. If a nurse comes to work impaired then in the Interest of the public all the other nurses MUST report that nurse and ask them to leave. Same thing for a doctor. Any nurse who knowingly does not report an impaired doctor could lose their own license because they fail to report. This kind of self regulation keeps everybody vigilant about working in the interest of the public. And you cannot lose your job for doing this (reporting impaired coworkers) because we have unions --so drug testing seems rather irrelevant?

No, charging premiums is not in defiance of the Canada Health Act. This tenet of the Canada Health Act does not say that health insurance is free. It says simply that the provincial insurance plan must cover all insurable procedures and cannot charge "extra" for medically necessary care. In other words doctors and hospitals cannot charge the patient an "extra" fee. Believe it or not there are people in Canada without health insurance. Many poor, indigent and homeless people do not carry health insurance in places where there is a premium charged - they usually get treated anyway and many others simply do not pay it or cannot afford it because they may be unaware that governments MUST pay it for you if you cannot afford it (Canada Heath Act). However, that doesn't happen automatically you have to apply for that assistance. If you need care and have not paid your insurance premiums then you usually get the care you need and then you are billed for the unpaid premiums. Over several years this can be a sum that some poor people cannot pay. The government will even garnishee wages for unpaid premiums. I prefer the system in those provinces where there is no premium charged at all as it avoids all these intricacies. And don't forget immigrants. They are not eligible for the provincial health insurance until a residency waiting period has been satisfied. Often there are private insurance plans they can purchase to make sure they are covered. And lastly I think it is important understand that Canadians believe as a society that everybody in the society benefits from universal health care. Even if you never have to use the system (unlikely) you pay for it like everyone else because it means that people who need it can get care when they need it and in the long run that saves money as little problems do not become big ones. It means that families have access to good prenatal care and that kids and other vulnerable populations are not held hostage to deteriorating health simply because they do not have money to get treatment. And it also means that there is no bureaucrat sitting in an insurance office some where making a decision about whether or not the procedure you need is "covered". It is such a common way of life here that we have trouble understanding why people in the US do not get the concept of universal health care.

Silverdragon is right only the College of LPN's in the province you want to work in can make that decision but it is highly probable that if you have a degree from the Philippines then your application for license as an LPN will be accepted.

No Fiona59 you are wrong, that is not a logical conclusion. One of the requirements for a registered nursing license is that you have graduated from a recognized school of registered nursing. This makes LPN"s who have graduated from a recognized school for practical nursing ineligible to apply for a registered nurse license without going back to school. On the other hand IEN's who graduated from a registered nursing school in another country and are licensed and working as an LPN, can apply for a registered nurse license. Of course they have to have their credentials, schooling, and experience evaluated against the provincial requirements before getting permission to take the CRNE. Many provinces are now also requiring the SEC ( Substantially equivalent competency) assessment as part of that evaluation as well. Is is my understanding that Ontario has a degree requirement for registered nursing and only accepts IEN's for a RN license with an equivalent degree. I am not sure about ALberta, but I do know that the university degree requirement is applied differently in all provinces. Some require an equivalent degree and others look at competencies. The CNA is not a regulatory body. They are a national organization that works to promote the nursing profession but they are not mandated by law to protect the public.They have no power to set policy for public protection in requirements for a nursing license. This is done under legislation at the provincial level.

Welcome to Canada eh! The immigration cap for registered nurses under the skilled worker program was reached last December so no more new applications until June 2011. However, the cap for LPN positions has not yet been reached so that is probably why you had an easier time. I wish more IEN's would consider the possibility of registering as an LPN first . You can always work on your RN registration while you are working as an LPN.

I get very discouraged when I see nurses writing that they cannot get a job. I went to the careers section of the Fraser Health Authority in BC. In total there were over 256 jobs for RN's posted . They were mostly casual or part time relief. Many nurses in casual positions work more than full time. 94 of those jobs were for ICU/PAR/Emergency/ICU and CCU I just cannot see how anyone can say there are no jobs? There is another health authority in the Vancouver area as well but I did not count the number of jobs there. I would expect it would be about the same or even higher. So if there are about 500 jobs in the greater Vancouver area and up the Fraser Valley why are people not getting jobs?

No that is not necessarily the case. You probably have more education than is needed for LPN but your best bet is to contact the provincial college for RN's or LPN's and get more specifics. But loriangel14 is correct you cannot take the bridging program to RN unless you have an LPN license. Also in some provinces you may be eligible for RN registration if you complete a re-entry program especially for IEN's so again it is highly variable and you should contact the provincial nursing authority.