AVKON

OMG, we're talking about FIVE nurses? And I thought there was an exodus of incompetent nurses everywhere, Filipino nurses in particular. Granted there may be a lot more that did not make the news, but breach of confidentiality, "unsuitability" for work (maybe she just can't reach most of the stuff on the shelves, Filipinos aren't too tall especially our females), if only THESE cases made the news, then other cases are either the same or of less significance. If Canadian graduates themselves need polishing, why expect more from IENs who have not even experienced the Canadian healthcare system? Please, any other examples? While I am not sure how YOU would go about to be an RN here, what I do know is if you're not doing something expected of/from you, we tell you. We don't just give you the boot after a few months. If you've been to the Philippines, you will see that we are a patient and understanding people.... maybe that's why Filipino workers are valued everywhere but in our own country.

breech, I need to do the SEC because apparently I have less than 12 years education before university. It seems that they only count starting Grade 1, so that's 6 years elementary and 4 years high school = 10 years. The funny thing is, SEC is not assessing my math or english or science skills, but my nursing competency. Now what has pre-university education have to do with THAT? Silverdragon102, yes, if it needs doing, then it needs doing. Unfortunately, they positioned the SEC in such a manner as the expenses will REALLY mount up, and some of us just don't have that money, or getting it would impair our families significantly. Alexk49, what I mean by that post is that they tell us EVERYTHING we need to qualify, aside from a degree. BLS? IV training? Head-to-toe assessment training? Granted that even if we have certificates on this, Canadians may do it differently, so an IEN must still be assessed... but the point is --- WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT, we just need to modify the technique to fit the Canadian healthcare setting and expectations. So based on that, why not land the IEN, and before he even touches a patient, give him a good orientation, put him on the SEC, and then polish him up, and when he passes, YOU now have a grateful IEN who knows the job and is an asset to YOUR hospital. Win-win.

To put it simply, why tell IENs up front what they need to become good Canadian nurses in clear, plain english? Now if a candidate CAN DO THE JOB but needs polish so that it is done the "Canadian way," why not land that IEN, give him a job to at least sustain himself, then build up from there? IMHO, a really interested, dedicated candidate will do whatever is reasonable to qualify.

like i said, i don't have trouble with being tested. and if i don't measure up to what is expected of me, by god, i would want to know where i am lacking and how to improve myself in that area. but why not test me after i have landed in canada? unless i am paralyzed in all four limbs or my mind stops absorbing new information, what's stopping the health institution from saying "i'm sorry, but we've realized you are lacking in [xxxx] field. however, we are still interested in retaining you and if you are willing to compromise, here are some courses you can take at this college/university to get you up to speed. you will lose some work hours since you have to go to school, but we will be willing to extend you a forgivable loan on this as well." it's a win-win situation, if you ask me. you get your nurses, you get to mold them the way you want them, and we get the work we need to sustain ourselves and our families. now you mentioned sending people back... can you give me a concrete example of this? what work was being asked to be done, that a nurse could not do? "could not" and "will not" are two different things. if that nurse was hired and could not do nursing tasks, then that nurse should be sent home and better screening of applicants or clearer job descriptions should be done. if that nurse was hired and will not do nursing tasks, or was found lacking and will not do bridging programs, then that nurse should be send home and the nurse needs an attitude check. now what if, when they came to canada, they were told that there was no work for them, or that nobody was willing to hire them, or that it was illegal for them to work under their visa, and must return home, apply for a proper visa, and then come back?

Do you mean to tell me Kwantlen can process my results in 1-2 weeks "just on my saying it's not acceptable"? I do not have any problems with WHY the SEC was put into place. I have problems WHERE (in the application process) it was put into place. Now I've been reading on the forums that some IENs who are ALREADY in BC have to take the SEC to see if they need "polishing" on their skills. Why can't that be the case for me as well? Why not certify me eligible BOTH to take the SEC and the CRNE? That way, I can get a job permit, come to Canada as a Temporary worker, get some experience, and THEN use that to build on my additional learning so that it will aid me as I take the CRNE and the SEC! I fully understand that "caring for a person" is different depending on country, race, even different depending on what institution you are working at, as a reflection of that particular institution's mission/vision statement. That being said, how can I know how to care for a person in the "Canadian setting" if I am asked to perform and I am being rated against a system I have no idea about? If I remember correctly, once a nurse fails the first take of the CRNE, his temporary license is revoked and he cannot work until he passes the CRNE (someone please correct me if I'm wrong!), but he is given a set amount of time (2 or 3 years?) with which to comply with the CRNE. Why not do that with the SEC as well? Or since a nurse cannot get his license until he gets 250 hours of supervised work from a Canadian hospital, why not make it so that he cannot get his license unless he gets the hours AND does the SEC? The idea here is just to make the IEN go to Canada ONCE, and at least assure him/her even a temporary job until he/she proves competency, with clear options and timeframes with regards to "X" happening if he/she gets "Y." Now I keep hearing that SEC is given only to some IENs and not to all, and that each is assessed individually. Okay, I'll grant you that. But surely, all assessments are done against some standard? One does not pass/fail the assessment purely on the assessor's whim? Well then, what are the standards of having to take the SEC? Is it the number of hours of clinical practice? The grades? The board exam results? So far, I have not seen any of these. Personally, I am told I need to take the SEC because I had less than 12 years of education before university. I don't mean to be rude, but does that mean that even if I aced my subjects and exams but had less than 12 years in school befor university, my capabilities as an RN is in question? So an individual with barely-passing grades and maybe took the exams 2 or even 3 times, but with 12 or more years of education will not have his competencies questioned? @ janfrn, I am not suggesting that, it was merely a "wishful" comment.

janfrn, i have read some of your posts in this forum and i respect your experience. please do not take this discussion as an attack to you or to canadian rns, and do know that bc is my first choice (i have a family and i believe canada, not the us, is the best place for me to raise my family), that is why i am so disappointed with this sec. then the crne should be reviewed and maybe re-done... if you are saying that the sec is a better assessment of basic nursing competency, since it both assesses memorization and critical thinking and skills, then crne should be replaced by sec, because what you are saying a crne passer may still not be fit to practice. of course canada should give first consideration to canadian-educated nurses... however, i was referring to iens - internationally-educated nurses, and not canadian-educated nurses. i was also told by a crnbc registration assessor that "you are required to take the sec because a review of your file has indicated that you have less than 12 years of education before university. " so it does not matter if i aced my local board exams or if i got straight as in my nursing subjects... if i have less than 12 years of education before university, my competency as a nurse is in question. but that is not the point of my post. my point is this: if you go to canada to study, you go on a student's visa, and you prepare for it by having funds, having your parents/relatives support you, etc. if you go to canada to work, you go on a work visa and you prepare for it by having experience, education, and a work contract. you see the other side of the crevasse, estimate if you can jump it, and have both eyes open when you jump. with the sec, it's like jumping with both eyes closed and having a ball-and-chain on your leg. why? if you fail it, you can take coursework.... but you are not on a student's visa. if you pass it and crnbc declares you eligible to write the crne, you can apply for a job and apply for a work permit... but this needs to be done outside canada (please, please, i would love to be proven wrong here!). why make someone go to canada in the first place, without offer for work and knowing full well that work permits cannot be filed from inside canada? why disrupt the "apply for a work permit/bc pnp after i get my job offer after crnbc states that i am eligible to write the crne" flow (note that i would not have left my country until after i secured a job in canada)? what if i turn the situation around: you want to work in my country and i tell you to come here and i'll see if you can work here after you come here?? how would that make you feel? bottom line is --- it is okay for regulatory bodies to make sure we're competent. trust me, i won't want to touch a patient unless i know what i'm doing, i'm assigned at the or fer cryin' out loud! there's no problem with proving how much i know, there's no problem with having to take exams. i will pay to write the exams. i will pay to take whatever coursework i need. i will pay whatever fees the regulatory body asks. but asking me to pay for airfare & expenses to come to canada for an assessment without even a timeframe from assessment to eligibility (assuming of course that i pass) is just insane. at least assuring me that i can file for work permit from inside canada, or that i won't have to buy a roundtrip ticket, or at least giving me a non-critical job in some obscure part in the hospital to pay for my living expenses while waiting for this fiasco to blow over would be a very kind gesture, but there's none. if i had that much money to spend freely (roundtrip ticket to bc, pay for rent and food for at least 3 months) in the first place, i wouldn't bother taking up nursing, i'd just file for an immigrant visa, pay an agency to do the legwork, and work up a tan for the 2 years it takes for the papershuffling to clear. but i don't. btw, please visit my thread here and tell me what you think.

Yeah, I read that thread. Breech is **** lucky! So *****' what if the SEC is free? I'd rather pay $200 to Kwantlen U. if CRNBC shoulders my roundtrip airfare as well as my board and food expenses for the duration of my SEC assessment. I gotta wake up now.

what i can say the joke is, is that these regulatory bodies, fully aware that a lot of their applicants apply from outside of canada (ie, their home countries), are now saying: "so you want to come to canada to work as an rn? come here first as a tourist, take a sec assessment, then we'll see if you're good enough for us. oh, by the way, the assessment takes anywhere from a day to 5 days, the results come out in a month or two, and we (at least crnbc) meet once a month to decide on these results... so if your results come to us this month but after our meeting, you'll have to wait until next month. so go sell your cows, pawn your family heirlooms, or take a loan from a co-operative (if you're lucky) or from a loan shark (if you're desperate) and come to canada for your sec by [insert date here] or else we'll throw your application out the window and you'll have to start over, and pay all those postage fees, all over again. oh, and did we mention that you won't have a job yet when you land in canada?" because there is no way any nurse here in the philippines can raise the money for the airfare alone without taking out a loan of some kind, not to mention money for living expenses in canada... all this to take an assessment which, from my understanding, is what the crne is supposed to be, but now we have another test altogether that is neither "in place of" nor "a precursor to" the crne. my apologies for the rant... but this sec thing has got me all worked up. while i am still optimistic about working in bc, and while i do see and understand the reason behind sec, i do feel that consideration for iens who are not yet in canada has not been given. there is absolutely no assurance of anything, not even a time frame of how long the new process takes. so while the sec is a serious business, imposing sec on just anybody without consideration of how they will accomplish it in the first place, is just plain insane. okay, i'm much calmer now. comments?

Please note that not all credit/debit cards, even those with VISA/MC logos, will be accepted. I'm no banker so I don't know how this works, but I have a BDO debit card with the MC logo... and I got delayed 2 whole frikkin' months since I kept on re-sending my card number, eventually even took a picture of it and sent it, no go. Tried a BDO credit card, still no go. The CRNBC employee said the cards were being rejected... which was curious since the debit card has funds in it and the credit card was up-to-date and was being used for groceries and could afford the fee easily. What worked was a VISA Citibank credit card. Grumble, shucks, and other comments.

Hello to everyone. I am a Registered Nurse in the Philippines with one year experience in the Operating Room and 3 months experience in the General Medical/Surgical ward (prior to being assigned in the OR). I have filed my application with CRNBC and I have done my IELTS already. Last week, I received a letter from CRNBC stating that for CRNBC to continue assessing my application, I must take a SEC assessment test (nursinginbc.ca). My original plan was to apply for a Work Permit/BC PNP after I get my job offer after CRNBC states that I am eligible to write the CRNE. However, since CRNBC will not be able to assess me until I take the SEC, my plan is now all messed up. I know what the SEC is about, what worries me is how to go about this. Obviously, I will have to go to Canada sometime this year (my deadline is Dec. 10, 2009) and take my SEC, probably on a Tourist Visa. What to do AFTER the SEC assessment is what bothers me. Kwantlen U. said it will take them 3-8 weeks to release my results, and CRNBC sait it will take them 1-2 months to assess the results. If I fail, I would have to take some coursework and retake the SEC, if I pass I would then be eligible to write the CRNE. The timeframe between CRNBC assessing my results and, assuming I pass, declare that I am qualified to write the CRNE is vague. So why is this troublesome? Obviously, I will have to STAY in BC while I wait out how all these events work out. Going back home to the Philippines would not be financially sound; I cannot imagine going back and forth to Canada without putting my family into serious debt. So I am stuck in Canada WITHOUT work for AT LEAST 3 months. To IENs who have to take the SEC, what are your plans? What do you plan to do as you wait out the results of this process? To CRNBC and other regulating bodies, I know why you have to do this, but would it not be better if SEC were offered OUTSIDE Canada as well? Or maybe somewhere else along the application process, maybe after getting 350+ hours of supervised work? Do you know you are asking IENs to travel to Canada to take the SEC without secure employment or even permission to work? Please know that the fare alone to Canada is no small change for those of us in developing countries, at least assuring us that this can be a ONE TIME expense with work at the end of the line for us to pay off unavoidable debts would be a step in the right direction. To immigration and visa experts, what do I have to do to be able to find and do work in Canada for these months? Can I apply for a Work Permit when I have an employer? Obviously I cannot work in the hospital, but any work for proper pay is fine, so long as the work (and my stay) is legal and the pay is proper. If I need to do coursework, will I have to appy for a Student Visa as well? Thank you very much for your time.