PhillyRN82

Well that should be the case. Even if they have masteral units, but the fact that they are fresh from school, without having hospital experience, Is nothing but dangerous both for them and for the students. Yes I agree, they may have the nursing skills. But the fact that they are newly grads, their skills are considered as that of the beginners as well. And a beginner must not teach, but instead, must have some frequent hands-on experience first to master the skills, and eventually be able to share it to learners with all their expertise. In such a way, they will be able to teach well with all their confidence. I believe that some school remains to be a placer in the nursing board. But it bears little. If you come to think of it, in a general perspective, foreign employers and the international community will tend to look more on the National Passing Rate, rather than the rank of a specific school. So having a deteriorating national passing rate reflects how bad the entire nursing education system in the Philippines is becoming. Partly because of hiring Educators that are not well rounded or shall I say, Inexperienced ones.... I THINK ITS ABOUT TIME FOR THE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT, PHILIPPINE NURSE ASSOCITION, CHED AND ANY OTHER BODIES RELATED TO PHILIPPINE NURSING EDUCATION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. THE ISSUE IS BECOMING VERY ALARMING AND IT ACTUALLY POSES A THREAT THAT SOMEDAY, FOREIGN EMPLOYERS WILL LOSS THEIR TRUST OVER OUR NURSING EDUCATION SYSTEM, AND WILL TEND TO LOOK FOR NURSES OTHER THAN THE FILIPINO NURSES.

Simple and let us not make this complicated. To be a n efficient Clinical Instructor: 1.) One must inherit the passion for teaching. 2.) Meet the requirements/qualifications to be a nurse educator. a.) Has the licensed to practice nursing in your country. b.) Must have MAN/MSN (If you are in the Philippines) b.) Musr HAVE the needed experience. Experience is the best teacher, once you have it, you will be more competent to share the nursing KSA to your students. Remember that Nursing is both, a science and an art. To stick with Science, you must be knowledgeable about the course, and to stick with ART, you must be skillful. Skills can greatfully acquired through years of experience. Therefore, quite obvious as it is, a NURSE must have the experience as well before ever thinking of becoming a nurse educator. Well personally, If I am to be a nursing student again, I wont allow any new graduate nurse to be my mentor. I am paying the right amount of tuition fees, so I deserve to be taught and trained by high caliber Clinical Instructors. My bad, But I guess it is not rightful for newly grads to immedietly venture in Nursing education right after passing the board exam. It is against the Philippine nursing act. ( Not a MAN/MSN holder or even masteral units for that matter) . Be aware that the Philippine Nursing Licensure passing rate is slowly deteriorating each year, partly the nursing school is to be blamed as some of their C.I's doesn't have what it takes to be. Big NO NO....well just my opinion.

Hello Armidevs. I understand your point so much like I understand the point of Alexk49. I am a product of a Philippine Nursing school, and so I understand that what filipino nurses are practicing in the actual area may not as always be the ideal nursing skills that is being scripted in nursing books. Filipinos practices nursing in a flexible and resourceful way brought about by the limited resources. That is why I agree when a C.I will say that what is being practice in the actual setting, maybe very different with what is ideal. In NCLEX, questions must be answered based on what is ideal, on what is proper, and on what is written in the book and is considered as a universal practice in our profession. Thus, Nursing theory is also important. Plenty of new graduates passed the NCLEX on first try simply because their knowledge gained in nursing school is still fresh. As what I have observed, newly graduate nurses has high probability of passing the NCLEX at first take, as compared to nurses who had been out of school for long time and is actively working as a staff already. Learning and memory retention sometimes follows the law of recency. Though I'm not holding facts to hold my claim. Just my opinion. Alexk is also right, knowledge without the skill is quite unsafe and is deleterious. Thus, A clinical Instructor who only posseses the Knowledge, without the skills, is so much dangerous. The nurses in USA almost as always follows the ideal nursing SKILLS. Nursing practice is Rigid and strict simply because we are dealing with patient's lives. Once you get to work in accordance to what is ideal, then your experience will be exemplary. That is why Alexk49 is making a good point because this is what nursing is all about in USA. As we go along with our practice, we render nursing care with the ideal nursing skills, the one that is written in the books. So be it in USA or in the Philippines, It is highly recommendable that CIs must have both, the experience, and the knowledge. So He/She could be so much beneficial to his/her students.

Please consider this for goodness sake.

Being a member of this site, I am raising my motion to suspend this thread until further review from the admin/moderators. This thread has caused plenty of us be deeply emotional and infuriated. Begging the Admins and moderators in the house to do something about this. The integrity of this forum will so much be at stake if left like this. This has been the talk of the town lately by most of the forums out there and I assume you know well about this.

I have to agree with you this time. At the end of the day, we must realize that all the messages posted here are highly opinionated (though it has some facts as well) and does not in any way mean, you have to believe and carry out OUR advices,opinions or whatever. If you think we are not making any sense, then be it. Since this is an open forum, I assume freedom to state what we think is rightful should not be questioned for as long as we are not violating the TOS of this site. I still stand with the fact that the moderators and some members of this site (Including ME) are still maintaining our impartiality. Being objective as I can, I couldn't find any posts that are racially discriminating. I am putting myself OFF from this site, till everthing will COOL off. I am so much aware that a lot of my countrymen FILIPINOs, had feel bad for what I've been constantly posting. I feel sorry and is asking for an apology if I ever offended anyone with my posts. Again, Merry Christmas, and till then.

Much of the statements you've made bears good points actually. I agree and you are just doing fine. I being a filipino, does also understand your sentiments. However, through the years that I've been somewhere outside PHILIPPINES and had live USA for almost 15 years already, I have learned to also see things in various ways and learned to appreciate and dealt well with what other nationalities, americans at that, perceives about foreign nurses. YOU can't please everybody and that you must understand your honor. Much of the americans still believes that foreign nurses, FILIPINO nurses are still good. But when Other Americans says much that the new nurses are inefficient, due to lack of proper training, poor quality nursing education, etc etc ,that we must also understand without being too emotional. You must learn to see these issues in two different ways, and BELIEVE me, we are making sense. Remember that you dream to come and work here in USA. If there is someone, or anybody who will be affected with the quality of nursing care you'll render, it will be the Americans. So we have all the right to criticize what is happening lately with the craze of thousands of new graduates who seek to apply USA without the posession of the OUTSTANDING skills that USA needs. In my short stay here in ALLNURSES, I didn't see any comments/messages that are biased and culturally insensitive. Members and moderators are doing well and are just being truthful with eveything. Try to broaden your thinking and view things in all aspects and take all the comments as a way of reminding you that in this world, what you may think an believe is right, may not be true to others. That you must understand. Happy x-mas

To Maui: I am not saying that I went through a criteria that I am suggesting, the "skills assessment". I have never said that I've gone through any other way. Criterias/qualifications for a nurse to come over here remains the same through the years. That is a fact. But talking about facts, nurses graduated recently is much behind in skills as compared to nurses of yester years. And for that, I suggest US Govt to review/modify the qualification of these NEW nurses who are inefficient but has the courage to dream big. It's about time for re-modification of foreign nurses qualifications. America will be in great danger to consider this people working here. I am sorry but just because I was once a filipino, that doesn't mean I have to agree with what you people are saying. I am just being truthful. I hate pretentions and false beliefs, it will not make us any better. Keep away from this old filipino attitude. To Pinkroyalty: I am not boasting that I graduated from UST, or that I am Cum Laude and a topnotch during my times. When I said so, I just want to proof to everyone that I am not making generalisations, I still believe that few others remains exceptional though they are graduates of recent years. But only FEW in its very literal sense. I am not understimating newly graduate nurses,nor am I preventing them from dreaming. My only concern is, when you dream for something, then dream for something that is for sure will happen in time. I am not playing GOD to say so, but one doesn't need to be GOD to open her eyest to see what the real world has to offer. It's Christmas time again. I'm sorry if I am harsh. Happy Holidays though!

This americans/amerisians who frequently visits the Phil forum are just showing/expressing their concerns with the alarming number of new Filipino nurses whose skills are really not that good and is still insisting to come over USA and be a part of our health care industry. Americans as we are, we have a strong love for our contrymen, we wouldn't want them to be taken care of by these inefficient nurses coming from a third world country whose nursing education is far from exemplary. It's risky, and we are dealing with people's lives afterall. I am not generalising, some filipino nurses are best. BUT not all especially nurses of today's generation. I believe that these nurses coming over have the qualifications, such as having the nclex, english proficiency exams etc etc...but this are not sufficient to really determine the real nursing passion of a nurse. I believe our US Government must look upon this matter closely. Modify the set of criteria for a foreign nurse to come here and work. By merely passing the cgfns,nclex,english exams is not enough. Nursing Skills must also be included in the criteria. If skills assessment is included, im quite sure alot of foreign nurses will fail on this part as most of them are inexperienced. You guys knows your skills well. If you think you don't deserve to work in USA, then don't go for it. It's a matter of professional conscience versus professional growth. Which ever way, professional conscience must over rule professional growth. Merry Christmas. Let us not dream for something that is just not possible this time. OR just let me say, let us dream in accordance to our capabilities. Don't dream for something that you're not, or for something that you can't just be.

Nursing Education in the Philippines is no longer like it was during my time. We have to accept this fact kababayans. Even those exemplary schools that you are talking about are also having some lapses now. UST, UP, St. louis, Siliman etc etc was once upon a time consistent in having a perfect or close to perfect rating in NLE, not until recently that they no longer remain consistent in their ranks. Of course they remain to be the top nursing schools, but that doesn't conclusively mean they still remain exemplary all the way. I disagree. Nursing Faculties during my time are really good. No doubt to that. And also, nursing students years back takes nursing as a course precisely because it's their passion to serve humanity and not for something else. Apparently nowadays, majority of these students are just being force to take this course by their parents or relatives thinking that this will be the easiest way for them to get out of financial burden. students are taking nursing now not because they love it, but because they ought to take it. This is not a good idea. very bad. And I guess this is the reason why NLE passin rate is dropping greatly. Their minds speaks about being a nurse, but not their hearts. Somehow, I am still thankful that I am a filipino, more thankful that I am a graduate of olden days.

I'm sorry but I cannot see any inconsistencies in statements made in here. And if you think there are as what you've like to believe, then I wonder why you keep on visiting this forum afterall. There are plenty of other forums out there where you can mingle with people with same thoughts as you have. Again, you are talking about the vast numbers of nurses recruited in the PAST. Past is Past...never have to dwell on it, things had changed considerably. If employers were bringing in foreign nurses in the past, it is because their hospital's income is quite sufficient to do so. But with economic crisis, this has already been out of employer's idea. To add up, when crisis hitted america, thousands of nurses out of the profession opted to practice nursing again. Not to mention that american now is producing handfuls of new nurses. Of course they will be on top priority to get the vacancy since they are citizens, other than recruiting nurses overseas.

Again, I am just cautioning everyone not to be so eager in coming over to USA. It's hard to be happy, then all of a sudden happiness turned to sadness due to job offer cancellation. And job offers to cancel is not merely prediction. It's actually taking place now. Any nurses that are presently in USA, both americans ang foreigners can vouch for it. With the financial crisis hovering USA, cost-effective measures for a hospital to do is for them to maximise their present manpower resources just like my facility is doing. To recruit nurses abroad or locally is completely out of the picture. and YES. I am a full blown Filipino, in my system runs same blood as those of our katipuneros, facing realities without fear. Brave to talk what reality has to offer. This must be the attitude of true pinoys. I am not in any way trying to dash anyones dream. I too, got plenty of dreams before, but dreams that are ought to come true. I am a Filipino, and till now, I still have my flat nose on my face, and I'm proud of it. Godbless you sir!

Now you talk about apples and pears out of nowhere. As what I have said, and would like to say it again, Having a good experience in nursing practice is of course an advantage especially in recent years as quality of nursing education is somewhat deteriorating, thus employers will be searching for more experienced ones rather than newbie nurses. But again, graduates during my time doesn't necessarily have that experience you are talking about, though it counts. Before, nurses, once graduated from nursing school and had obtained a passing mark on NLE, and foreign exams, then by no means they wouldn't be hired by foreign employers. This speaks how exemplary the nursing training WAS in the Philippines years and years ago. But things had changed gradually and you know what I mean. Nurses nowadays, RN as he/she is, passed the foreign exams, but just as simple as I.M medicine administration, shivers and fails. Terribly bad and a big NO NO. This is because of lack of training and bad nursing education. I am not generalizing, but this is what weve seen recently and a big shame. Apples and pears...Both are fruits...both are perishable.....and both are seasoned. Apology for getting off-topic.

When I posted that message, My intention was to let my brothers and sisters in the Philippines be aware of the present condition of the USA. That it is no longer the America as it was 14 years ago when I first stepped the american soil. It's not a point of discouraging people from applying or coming over here. It's their choice afterall. I know that my posts are so discouraging. But the truth that lies in every word written must be taken as non-offensive, but rather a good eye opener for everybody. I am really concern with my filipino brothers and sisters. I don't want them to hope or dream for something that would just not happen over time. I also do admit that when I came here. I was fresh from school and is bringing little experience. I do not in any way deny that. But hey, that doesn't mean I am skillsless or less knowledgeable at that time. I graduated from school so famous for quality nursing education. I had a good clinical exposure during my RLE. I obtained good scholastic records, graduated as cum laude of my batch. Had my nursing board exam and took pride to be dubbed as one of the topnotchers at that time. These achievements prompted the employer to hire me despite of my short post-graduate experience. Yes experience is important and I was just lucky that experience is at no big deal in my case just as the employer's attention was diverted to my other significant achievements. My dear, I advise you not to be very happy at this point in time. You have a job offer. No doubt. But with crisis going on, no matter how many years your experience is, how deep is your nursing knowledge is,and how skillful you are bears nothing. again, Nothing. Job offers are getting cancelled. I've seen many already. So be careful of what you've been happily dreaming of. The road to USA is slippery at the moment. You might stumble and fall along the way. Goodluck.

I fully agree with you. Ombudsman are paid for his job. But sad to say, His views are often ignored. As defined in Encarta Dictionary, An Ombudsman is someone responsible for investigating and resolving complaints. Someone investigating complaints raised against the Government or public authority. Ombudsman are also human beings, and as always they take side. They are one-sided fellows.Especially if they are being extra paid to declare something that is untrue.

I am presently living in Sacramento California. I've been in 3 states already since I came over to USA and work as a nurse years and years ago. I decided to settle here since my relatives and my parents are also living here and the weather is quite fair, closer to that of Philippines. Not to mention the big filipino community, makes me feel so much at home. Well, this is my home now since I'm already a lawful citizen of this nation.:wink2: New Graduates in this locale are also having difficulties in getting hired. Employers tend to hire those with more experience only if there's a need. And with financial crisis heavily being felt, much of the hospitals in this place stopped hiring and is just making ways to maximize their current manpower. Moving on, my relatives back in the Philippines are currently employed with Government Hospitals. They are graduates of year 2005 and earlier and is waiting for their PDs to be current. I am not sure if everything will be fine for them now since cancellation of job offers is becoming so rampant as economic crisis is worsening each day. But I never missed reminding them not to expect too much from Uncle Sam. The truth hurts as always. But we have to accept and learn to deal with realities of life.

Yes I fervently agree with you Silverdragon. People waiting in line must at least be thankful because cut-off dates did not retrogress. This is something to be celebrated with. A whispering voice is telling me that I, or we should be thankful still with NVC for not advancing the cut-off dates for now. I personally don't want you guys to come here and experience the crisis as well as a start. Not good for a new beginning. I too got a lot of relatives still in the Philippines with PDs near to being current. But I constantly remind them that today, or even tomorrow is not the best time to come over here. Green is not as greener as it may seem now. When everything in this part of the world will be fine, Count me in. I'll be the first one to be very happy for you guys, and I'll be very accomodating to welcome and assist you in ways I could. But again, retrogression is set, Economic crisis is worsening. Adding all these things will just equals to Lesser chances of coming here.

Have you guys saw the January 2009 Visa Bulletin? It's not as wonderful as everyone out there is expecting. I'm sure a lot of you are so disappointed by now. This is what we are telling, with the bad economy, everything will in some way or another be affected.

The Visa Bulletin has much nothing to say even if it will be current. Hospitals are finding it hard to look for ways paying their employees due to a drop in income brought about by less number of patients coming in. When Hospitals census are low and continue to drop....then expect that petitioners will sooner or later cancel the job offers. This is something for sure will happen. How can hospitals finance foreign nurses in coming over where in fact right at this time,a lot of them are already experiencing hardship in getting their employees paid. The logic is simple,When Job offer gets cancelled, then everything is gone, and the Visa Bulletin, no matter how far it will jump forward, will just be a plain mirror without reflection of beauty but a beast. The best way to deal with this problem is to look for other options.

Your honors: I really appreciate the way you rebut all those comments raised by me, moderators and some members of this house. But I still see things the way they are. And for someone who is here in US already, for someone who is really observant to what is taking place,and for someone who can sense and feel the impact of this economic crisis, PLAYING blind is considered a sin. We are not degrading foreign trained professionals in here. As a matter of fact, we support them in ways we could. If one can come over here to work and achieve his/her dreams, then we are happy all the way. But whenever crisis like this happens, we also have to be true with our words. It would be very hard for someone to dream BIG, when chances are slim. So much more like killing oneself sticking with a belief that is almost unbelievable. We speak, we let our voices be heard precisely because we know something. And that something is precisely the TRUTH of the matter being discussed. We dont want to put ones dream to an end. But this serious phenomenon we do experience now, is like telling us to stop dreaming for something that is way to hard to be achieved. Multi-factorial problems like this will make everyone's dream close to a nightmare. So beware of what you wish/dream for. You might stumble...and never learn to stand up straight again.

Hello Chavelle. I am sorry but I am helpless with you. In the first place we dont have any idea of what you are talking about, to which board you are contacting with and for what reasons you're contacting them. I guess it is just rightful that before seeking for any help, to just beforehand state a brief background of the matter. In such a way we could help you up-close in ways we could. Your thread title is also vague and leaves us with a big question mark. Next time please be specific. Thanks. Hoping I could be of help soon.

"Thankyou for agreeing with me. **I'M** not comparing myself with that - several posters on this thread have chosen to lump all "foreign" nurses in one basket as undereducated, inexperienced morons. No, you may not have used those words, but the implications were clear." Well, I have to say that we have our own way of thinking. If you think the message implies the way you perceive it. Then be it. The truth hurts. Posts that are published here may sometimes seem to be harsh, but these are realities. Yes, to draw generalization is quite dangerous and might attract critical comments from several members. But the truth lies in every words spoken is better yet appreciated than denying the real happenings taking place. I suggest each and every Neophyt nurse out there, especially to my fellow filipinos, to set forth and gain good nursing experience in our country first before ever thinking of coming to USA, or any other place. Experience is a good source of confidence. I wonder how courageous young filipino nurses nowadays planning to come over here and practice nursing without having sufficient nursing experience. You are prone to unsafe nursing practice and might put americans in danger. You might as well be in danger when you'll commit mistakes due to lack of experience. But again, there are also nurses with good nursing knowledge and skills and had pratice nursing for years already. These nurses are welcome. But again, with economic crisis going on, with news of job offers getting cancelled, with retrogression set. Things wouldn't be as easy as years and years ago. Filipino members of this site may hate me for this. But I stand with what I perceived is right. And since this is a forum where opinion is highly being respected, might as well share my thoughts. God Bless America.

Just came across a funny note from a newly grad nurse: "Received patient on bed, comatose, GCS 3/15 but patient is ambulatory with assistance. " hahhhahaaha

Hey guys. Don't get too much emotional. Things would just end up to a boiling point when everyone stands to what they beleive and does not consider anyones opinion. Let us just stick to what is real and with what is happening at present. No one forces you to stop applying for AMERICA. You always could. But the thing is, you must learn to accept the fact that anything might happen along the way. Job offers at any time may get cancelled when our economy is way too bad. And also, the waiting game is another issue. When one is planning to apply in USA and will just start now, then you are looking at a 7 or more years of waiting. This is what posters and moderators is emphasizing. This is for your own good. Why invest your money and time for something that is not certain while you can certainly apply for any other countries without having the fear of job offer getting cancelled and processing of visa is fast. Right? Filipinos are smart people. YES I AGREE because I too is a filipino by blood, in fairness to me.hehehe But the quality of nursing education is now a big question to me. The board exam passing rate is dropping over the years. The national passing rate of 43% is quite alarming. Philippine board of nursing must see this problem closely. This is a big shame. More and more students are taking up nursing and hospitals are very limited where they could have their practicum. So how in the world could these student nurses acquire good nursing skills??? come to think of it. And also, Nursing schools in the Philipines is like a mushroom scattering all over, having 60-70 students per lecture room definitely is a bad practice, surely not conducive for learning. And the Big question is, are the nursing educators/faculties qualified for the position? I think for a nurse to be a Clinical INstructor, one must be a MAN holder and I am in serious doubt if these Clinical Instructors posesses such. We are not concern about the quantity of nurses Philippines may produce annually, what is most important is the Quality of education these nurses acquired during their studying years. That makes a difference. A drop in passing rate to 43% clearly implies that something is wrong and CHANGE must take place. Godbless

"When the financal troubles improve, the hospitals downscaling and hire freezing will be looking for nurses again." ---> Yes you are obviously right. But the question is when? And if that moment will come, then definitely employers may need to hire americans over foreign trained nurses in the first place. Americans would be their priority in hiring as they are readily available to be of service, no need for immigration processing whatsoever. ----> Everyone is entilted to his/her opinion, but opinions that are real are more acceptable as we are living in real world, not in a dreamworld. ----> Sir/Madam. I know you are near to be current. Again, you may be one among the exceptionals, but hey, triple your prayers. And pray on bended knees. No one is exempted to the crisis US is facing. Everyone is affected. I hope things would WORK out well for you. ALL THE BEST THINGS IN LIFe, IS ALL THAT I'VE BEEN HOPING FOR ALL OF YOU GUYS. BUT PLEASE BE REALISTIC WITH YOUR LIFE'S ASPIRATIONS.