butterflyeffect

David, Based on your ability to so thoroughly and fully explain this topic and how beneficial it is to all of us who wish to get paid what we are worth it seems like you could really monetize this information for yourself through both paid publications (books, etc.) and a consulting business. This is very valuable information...I would certainly hire you as a consultant to assist me in negotiating my worth with a prospective employer and/or in developing a business plan for opening my own practice. Not sure what your background is other than the PA but it is apparent that you have practical business knowledge beyond the average health care provider. You don't happen to have your MBA too do you? Anyways, just a thought...you probably have enough info just in these postings to publish a book and you could do it as one of the self published books for say $0.99 to $2.99 as a download to test pilot it then tweak it for formal publication based on feedback. In the mean time I will just be grateful for your support of the nursing community! DNP student in AZ

Yes, in the program...and doing very well....I think it is odd as well that no one said anything to me about the whole oh you dont have a formal RN degree but you have an RN that might not work out for you to move to AZ that only works in CA. I was clear up front that I have several other degrees but no formal RN degree and they said they would take a letter from my school indicating that I had taken coursework that is BSN equivalent. Thanks all of you for your words of wisdom. This is just a stepping stone...I will figure out a way to make it work even if I have to take some additional classes to get the formal BSN and take a semester off from the DNP. I so love this program though...that would be a shame. I still believe a nurse should be a nurse should be a nurse no matter where you are in the country...the standards should be the same for everyone...and they should be high. I might not see it in my lifetime either but having a cohesive standard and language will strengthen us as a separate and distinct health care profession and our political clout when it comes to legislation. The AMA gets this and that is why they are so good at getting what they want. Nurses need to be good at getting what they want too. :redpinkhe

thanks elkpark. i am hoping against hope that the person who is reviewing my transcripts will see that i took all the courses associated with a bsn from an accredited program and that will be that. i was also considering contacting one of the places listed on the application that evaluates the foreign transcripts and see what they could do with my transcripts. these are listed on the az rn endorsement application for the foreign nurses (go figure they are in ca) international education research foundation p.o. box 3665 culver city, ca 90231 phone: 310-258-9451 fax: 310-342-7086 e-mail: [email protected] website: www.ierf.org educational records evaluation services 601 university avenue, suite 127 sacramento, ca 95825-6738 phone: 916-921-0791 toll-free: 866-411-eres fax: 916-921-0793 email: [email protected] website: www.eres.com when i get done with this i swear i am going to go into the political side of nursing and fight for national standardization...we all sat for the nclex (i passed it in 75 questions)...if this is not good enough for some states then the test needs to change...the only thing someone should have to do if they are current and passed the nclex is pay the state for their license in that state...this has to change it is just stupid ridiculous.

This is really convoluted and insane but here goes... I transferred out of a Direct Entry FNP program in CA into a Doctor of Nursing Practice program in AZ. I have applied for my AZ RN license only to discover that because I had not actually graduated from a nursing program I am not eligible for an AZ license!! The portion of the Direct Entry program I completed is equivalent to a BSN (in fact we took the exact same courses as the BSN students and even had some of the same teachers!) but because the program is recognized as a graduate program and the financial aid that is received for the program is considered to be toward a graduate degree, the state of CA said the school could no longer confer BSN's to the students in the direct entry program on their way to their MSN (sigh) and so I sat for the NCLEX and was awarded my RN as a non-degree RN. I was the lucky one to be a part of the first cohort in which they had to do that with...yea me! Every other cohort before me got their BSN on their way to their MSN. I was told that there is someone who will be in on Monday who has the authority to put me through after evaulating my transcripts (which they already have) maybe, possibly. I also went ahead and asked my program director from the Direct Entry program to send a letter to the AZ BON indicating the situation and that indeed the coursework I took is the same as the BSN coursework... So my questions are: 1- Is there anyone else out there that has done this and what was the outcome? 2- What are some of my options in order to get my paper that says I have a BSN? I was even considering going to the DNP program I am in now and asking that school to evaluate my transcripts and give me my BSN, lol! I would gladly take a few courses if that was what was necessary to make that happen. a very sad and scared butterfly (but not giving up...necessity is the mother of invention...or loop holes, lol!)

I am currently residing in Arizona and am one of those who received the RN as a non graduate, however the program I attended the RN portion was part of a direct entry FNP program of which i transferred out of into a DNP program here in AZ...the course work I took was identicle to the BSN coursework right down to the professors who taught it however I was not conferred a degree as according to CA if I am receiving financial aid under a graduate program then i cannot be conferred an undergraduate degree (BSN) on my way to my MSN...I was the first cohort they did this with...all other graduates of this entry level program were conferred their BSN on their way to their MSN...so I am currently moving my request for licensure up the AZ BON ladder to see if I can have my transcripts evaluated for equivalency (won't know until Monday if this will even happen). Personally, if a foreign educated nurse can come to AZ and submit their transcripts for equivalency...why couldn't I?

I was told the same thing too mainly because I was told that it would make me more marketable and help me hold onto my "nursing skills" which I would promptly lose once I went into psych nursing (supposedly). I already knew that I would never want to be any kind of nurse but a psych nurse so it did not matter to me if I ever had a med surg job or any other kind of nursing job. If for some reason I was forced to take some other kind of nursing job and it had been some time since I used those particular skills I would just take a refresher nursing skills course and go from there but it would be the absolute last resort. Sometimes you just know. I just knew. Psych nursing is something of a different animal but I have still had to draw bood, take various samples of body fluids, tube feed, catheterize, deliver injections, give meds along with several other crucial nursing skills that I would supposedly not use in psych nursing. I love psych nursing so much that I just transfered out of my Family Nurse Practitioner program into a Doctor of Nursing Practice program in child and family psychiatry...everyone said do the FNP then get your psych cert...but when you know what you want, you just know what you want. Follow your heart that way you can enjoy the journey just as much as the destination :) butterfly :redpinkhe

Thank you so much for your reply! What is your background if I may ask? I am in a Direct Entry FNP program and my BA is in psychology...

Thanks Zenman, I am pretty much sold on the psych DNP, just want to make sure the program is a reputable program. Do you actually know someone who has graduated from the psych DNP program, or just the school in general? I appreciate your response! :loveya: butterfly

Hi All, I am currently enrolled in a direct entry Family Nurse Practitioner program in CA. I recently have been looking at the DNP program at Arizona State University in Psychiatry as this is my area of interest and the area in which I am now completing my preceptorship. I was considering transferring out of the FNP program into their DNP psych program to pursue my interest in psych. A few questions: 1- Are there any ASU DNP graduates out there that can attest to the program's quality and where they are now in terms of career options (what are you doing with your degree?) 2- Is anyone aware of the application to admittance ratio for this program (I cannot find anything on this)? 3- Any thoughts on the advantages vs. disadvantages of continuing on the FNP track and just getting a post masters certificate in psych instead of transferring into the DNP program? I know the program I am in now is an excellent program and I enjoy both the faculty and my classmates but really want the psych emphasis...just dont want to pursue this avenue only to find I left an excellent program for a mediocre program even if it is in my area of interest...I can always get the post master's cert if this program is not going to get me where I want to be. Thanks! butterfly

Them's fight'n words! Sorry...I just can't help it...it just seems that this whole debate has gotten so completely and utterly ridiculous...can I get an amen sistas?! Or just a Thank You would be cool :chuckle

Oooh so ominous! This guy thinks so too!

Hi crisbiss! I have a place in mind, just waiting for the right time. I will be working through August but I only work 3 days a week doing 12 hour shifts...so I still have a good amount of time to get things together. I sent in all the info I have and did the security thing, the student loan thing and the medical stuff...I needed to do some things through their clinic but when I called they just told me to send in what I had and then they would contact me to set up an appointment for the rest? I think I will check in on that as that was several weeks ago and I have not heard anything yet about the other medical stuff I need to do through them. The family must be in Portland? See you soon CB!

Because I have no prior experience as a nurse and in order to attend school I will need to attend a direct entry nursing program at the masters level as I am unable to borrow money for a lower level degree ( I already have two BA's). I could do an AA then work as an RN but in CA almost all schools are on the lottery system (so no guarantee when I would get in) and almost every school has different pre-req's for applying...usually a pre-req that must be taken at that particular school...if I wanted to apply to enough AA programs to have a reasonable chance of getting in based on a lottery system I would be taking pre-req's forever...not to mention the longer I am taking pre-req's for these programs then I will have to start retaking my pre-req's as the older pre-req's will have expired...most schools will not take the pre-req's after a certain time has passed (who wants to take chemistry, physics, and organic all over again and 8 semester hours of each no less?) So, I opted for this program as it accepted me (big selling point :nuke:), provided me with the financial aid I need to complete the program and have enough money to live(no small matter in the Bay Area), and has an excellent reputation and believe it or not a 100% pass rate. Also, I am not certain if I want to do the CRNA route yet. I only just recently began researching it and that was after two years of trying to get into ANY program. I am still uncertain as to whether it would be a good fit but I am interested in learning more...I was mainly interested in knowing if being an FNP would hinder me if I did decide somewhere down the line that I was interested enough to pursue it or if there are others out there who have started out in one direction and they were able to change course after a few years as an FNP. I know I will enjoy being an FNP so I am happy with my choice and being accepted. I just want to know how flexible my path is should experience be the better teacher.

I was wondering if there were any CRNA's out there that started as an FNP? When did you know you wanted to be a CRNA and what path did you take to get there? Thanks for any and all responses/advice.

What kind of reality? Last I checked advanced education was a voluntary pursuit. If the DNP is not good enough for you then do not obtain the DNP. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if your gripe is that the DNP is not what is should be or that it is being touted as something it is not then perhaps you should become involved in the process governing certification guidelines. Complaining about how something works does nothing to "fix" it if indeed it needs to be fixed. While the DNP has been around for some time it is only within the past few years that it has truly gained momentum. As with any theory, idea, etc that is put into practice there is a process of development that occurs over time as practice often reveals areas of improvement. Again, if you strongly feel that you have the hindsight to reveal such flaws and to offer constructive criticism...you know the kind of criticism that not only tells someone how "stupid" something is but that has a suggestion on how to make it not so "stupid"...then please present your ideas and concerns to a governing body that can do something about it. Write letters with your research and findings (or publish your research and findings in a peer reviewed journal), join organizations that support your cause or start one yourself, or even join the organization that has power over the decision making process and run for office so that your two cents is worth a little more than everyone else's two cents. Otherwise all your yapping is just pointless blabber and white noise to all who hear it. And, do not think for one minute that one person cannot illicit change...that is complete bunk. Own your beliefs by putting them into practice...make your ideas and opinions count by finding a solution to what you perceive as a problem and then give your solution to someone who can make a difference. Or, become that person who makes a difference yourself. "It's easy to make a buck. It's a lot tougher to make a difference." Tom Brokaw

Hi. I was just curious who will be starting the ELMSN-FNP program at Samuel Merritt this coming Fall? Last I heard people were still waiting to hear back from the school but I would imagine at this point everyone knows. I would just like to meet a few of my fellow classmates before classes start...even if it is just a virtual meeting. Also, tell a little about yourself...that is if you are comfortable about that. I live in San Francisco but I am planning on moving to the East Bay within the next few months. I have 3 cats (yes, I know, if I were not married I would probably be that crazy cat lady) and a parrot. The cats are Nina (aka: Princess Pudding Head), Simone (aka: Lumpus), and Noelle (aka: Popeye) and the bird is named Kenzo (aka: Boopie or Bat Bird). Certainly not as difficult as raising children but I do consider them my babies none the less. I have been married for five years to a fabulous man who not only rubs my feet almost EVERY night but who does the dishes, the laundry, and vacuums...among other great domestic goddess chores (don't worry I do not abuse him and his kindness as I also do these chores as well...we share and I give a killer back rub). I am really excited about starting this Fall and I am looking forward to meeting you all as well as discovering the many opportunities that this path will open up not only for me but for all of us. Cheers, butterfly

n_g (aka no good), I hope I have the opportunity to work with you...you love to stir the pot don't you? I wonder how many buttons you have that I can push? What fun you must be. :chuckle You are so tired...yawn...

No...I am female. LOL

Who are you referring to?

I remember working as an organ procurement technician with the eye bank. I was on call and would perform the sterile surgical procedure to remove corneas for transplant and whole eyes for research. I did not even have my bachelors yet. I cannot tell you the number of times someone would tap me on the shoulder and start talking to me as if I were a physician...all the while I am thinking...you got it all wrong I am just here for the dead guys eyes...my name tag even designated me as an organ procurement technician. Anyone wearing a lab coat is a physician for most people...this is why patient education and standardization of medical titles are so important. In my case I did not even have to introduce myself...so the misconception isn't really with introductions so much as ignorance.

I like that! We should all adopt the title "Master"....my husband and I were arguing about this and he said that "Dr." belongs to physicians and has for over a 100 years and that DNP's need to come up with something else...I said really? And what would that be and he said' "Fabulous"....well I think we are all fabulous but it really says nothing about your level of education...the struggle continues...

I will be starting a Family Nurse Practitioner program in the Fall of this year. My school I will be attending offers a post professional certificate to become a CRNA. My question is based on your personal experience or personal knowledge how should I go about proceeding to become a CRNA after I get done with my FNP? Should I do the post certificate, should I try to go onto a DNP with a specialty in anesthesia, should I work part time in an ICU while finishing up my FNP (the school allows you to finish up your masters on a part time basis after the first year when you get your RN...it is a direct entry program that is three years long...RN first then the master's portion) and then apply to a CRNA program? I definitely want the FNP so I do not want to drop that to go for the CRNA...I have just been doing a lot of research on the CRNA and find it to be very interesting...I am not set on the CRNA yet but just wanted to find out what paths would be available to me after getting my FNP should I want to pursue the CRNA. Thanks!

Doctors of Nurse Practice ARE primary care PROVIDERS and in 23 of the fifty states their scope of practice allows them to practice under their own license without being overseen by a Medical Doctor...they are also given full hospital privileges and allowed to directly bill insurance. Sorry, but like it or not...Dr. does not belong to MD's...even in the clinical setting as DNP's are providing primary care autonomously in half the country and at some point they will probably be doing so within the entire country. While it may be true that within the clinical setting at this point in time that patients equate "Dr." to mean a physician it is only through owning your title and proper education that the differentiation and distinction will be made. "Dr." is a terminal degree...it is a level of education it is not owned by anyone or any specialty. Patients being diagnosed and treated by DNP's have a right to know the level of education their provider has achieved and how that differentiates them from other providers. It is what it is and change is inevitable...instead of trying to fight it maybe we could look at how it will benefit everyone...especially the patient. No one is trying to mascarade as something that they are not by owning and using the title they rightfully earned and are entitled to use. MD's who think that DNP's are using "Dr." because they want to be perceived as "MD's" are missing the point...everything is not about you... if a DNP wished to be perceived as an MD they would have went to medical school. That's just my .

Who have you been emailing and calling? When I had questions I looked up their directory and directly called the person in charge of what I needed the answer on. If you have already done this then I have no idea what to try...

I too worked in the military in the medical field but not as a nurse. I think as a nurse you will have more autonomy and freedom than I did but ultimately I would truly weigh and consider your decision. If you do not agree with your superiors or think something does not make sense or is not fair or safe you will have no choice but to follow orders. There is no arguing your point. If you work as an OB/GYN nurse it is still possible that you will be sent to Iraq and told to work in another specialty...a nurse is a nurse to the Army. The military allows a lot more latitude in scope of practice....things that would normally be illegal in the civilian world are not only legal but considered part of your job description. My personal experience in my field was that I was given to another unit in a time of war and separated from everyone I knew for several years to go be with another unit where I knew no one...I was then told it did not matter what my MOS was because today I would now be a combat medic...I was given a week to learn what others in that MOS learned over the course of several months...now my military record reads that I should be given credit for that MOS in the civilian world because it was something I learned in the field. I cannot say what your experience will be like and different branches have different flavors and a different feel to them depending on your chain of command. My personal experience was awful and I hated having other people (people who by the way I felt were not qualified to be giving me direction) tell me what to do. I also hated being given responsibility over an area of expertise that I truly did not feel I was ready to be responsible for. I also hated having to participate in a war effort that not only meant nothing to me but that I was completely against. You have to remember that you are property when you join the military. You are used and treated in any way that the military sees fit to use and treat you. I was not an Army nurse but I worked closely with one and I can tell you that I would not put myself in that position. But, again, that is my experience...I am sure others as stated above had very different and valuable experiences. I did learn a lot more than I ever would have learned in the civilian world but that was mainly because I was doing things that in the civilian world would be considered out of my scope of practice. Please, please, please think about what you are committing to...once it is done it is done and then you will have to do whatever they tell you to do and go wherever they tell you to go and in some cases for years at a time and for several tours over and over again all away from your family...and your orders will say one thing when you leave and once you are there they may change...suddenly you have to stay for 6 more months and then when that time arrives suddenly you have to stay for 3 more months...your life is not your own and you have NO choice in the matter.