veritas

i agree with you, except, in reality, they do select people the way i described. i was on the selection/academic board once and the discussions that went on about RNs becoming MDs were not welcoming at all. most RNs are against RNs going over to MDs and will try to create extra hurdles and obstacles for RNs trying to go to MDs. MDs don't particularly care if an RN comes over. so in reality, the problem doesn't really lie with the medical faculty but with the nursing faculty. there is a dynamic going on, and it's not a simple static thing.

i agree about the difficulty in getting residency if you did an oceania degree.... i mean any off shore degree will be difficult in getting you a residency anyway... plus oceania is dodgy... the 3 year program i mentioned is actually happening, with real people in it and has been on for some years. and they have no issues with residencies. it is on their site, but you have to know exactly what you are looking for. for obvious reasons, this program is a bit hush hush because they don't want a lot of people to suddenly abandon nursing and hop over to MD, making the nursing crisis worse than it is... are you interested in becoming an MD? i notice u post a lot about this topic everywhere... since you r a PA, how is the RN to MD program applicable to you?

:balloons: thank you kindly for the explanation. i am well aware of historical connotations, traditions, etc... but these days, it's the new century, the new era, etc etc.... i have never heard anyone call a surgeon "Mr"... and i think if i did, people would be confused and the surgeon would actually be upset. but i understand where it all comes from...

i would hardly be making up things that i post. i am aware that what i post is easily cross-checked. i personally triple check things i post before i post them. to name one of the schools offering a 3 year short cut med degree, is the school of medicine at university of missouri. u may skip year 1 if they deem u suitable.

i meant becoz in US you have some programs which shave off 1 year from the 4 year post-grad program, essentially making it 3 years post grad for a med degree. there is no such thing in uk or oz or most 1st world countries. in oz and uk, even after u do a degree, no matter what it is or how much experience you have, u end up in the bottom with the rest, without exemptions. and in some countries, even if u have a prior degree, u still have to do the 8 years. so US is already providing the shortest recognised program in the world.

that's in USA. what i said is actually happening in Oz. wow, USA has a med school admission rate of 44% to 50%? amazing. must be real easy to get into med schools in USA. in Oz, it's 20%. and in many places in the world, the program is still 8 years. in uk, it is usually 5 or 6 years.

to solve the shortage of doc problem, NPs should be given more power/autonomy. they can't just simply let in more students. plus it costs much more to train a doc than a nurse. they have started to let in more med places in recent years. many programs have expanded places by about 100 to 200 extra spots. they have to maintain the bottleneck in med. otherwise, it could become like brazil, where doctors and nurses are paid the same. who wants to slog to become a doc then if they get paid the same as nurses? and who will work as hard? where will the standard and quality go?

the med system is eliteist. and they are not starving for students. even with the mcat and interviews and high GPA required, there is still about 25 to 50 applicants per 1 med school place. so in fact, only about 20% of people who apply to med school can get in. the med program has already down sized a lot to accommodate the "shortage" of docs. it used to be 8 years, and got reduced to 6 years and now you can do it in 3 or 4 years. if it gets anymore cut down, i m not sure how people will fit in all they need to learn. a nursing degree is 3 or 4 years. if med is cut any less than nursing, how will the docs fit all they need to learn into that time? there is A LOT more to learn in med than in nursing! as it is, med students are struggling to fit in everything they need to know in the current 3 or 4 years program. and in the end, they are not as confident as they could be if the program was longer.

i wanted to donate my eggs... but people who haven't had kids are not allowed to donate their eggs....

" The Indian culture has prescribed RITUALS AND RITES OF PASSAGE at various phases of an infant's development. When the child has lived for a full lunar phase (28 days), this is celebrated by tying a protective yantra or blessed charm (tali) around the child's waist with a string which may be changed to a gold chain after six months." This is a general Hindu/Vedic/Asian Indian thing. Not necessarily anything to do with their caste/class.

anyone who wants to do MD should join the bottom of the pile and start new. seriously people, do you want to go to a doctor who did not pass mcat or interviews? do you want a doctor who took shortcuts to get into med school? i don't think so! the mcat and interviews and classes are there for extremely good reasons. those schools advertised as no mcat required, blarblarblar are not going to get you the residency required in any country, and no residency = no job = not md = back to wherever you came from or started from. think about it! :monkeydance:

in australia and USA, there are actually a lot of schools offering mental health scholarships.

i think this patient must be very ignorant or just choosing to see what he wants to see. i don't think nurses as a population are predisposed to or generally fat! it's got nothing to do with nursing. there's more fat people who are not nurses than there are nurses who are fat! :monkeydance:

i totally agree! we all choose our own decisions in life and we lead our own lives. not someone else's idea of what ideal is. as long as we are doing our jobs in the standards required and as long as we are safe and not hurting anyone, we should all be allowed to make our own choices, and not be guilted, bullied or manipulated by others into their perception of ideal. no one is perfect and looks are always deceiving. we all have our own battles, fat or thin, and it's not right for one to judge the other as being better or worse. we are all different people and our diversity should be celebrated. people come in different shapes and sizes and have little reflection on their character or abilities. surely nurses are not expected to become clones of each other, in one skinny size? people place too much emphasis on looks and appearances. by accepting that, we are perpetuating it. do what is good and right. not what is superficial and biased. :monkeydance:

in lay man terms, all doctors are called doctors! its confusing with the mr and doc differentiation. a surgeon has to be a doc before he becomes a sugeon anyway. so all surgeons and physicians get the MBBS first, which is equivalent to the MD in USA. MBBS is a british thing which british-colonised countries adopted. it's weird calling a surgeon mr.... sounds like he is not a doctor?

maybe it's the faculty's idea of "tough love", but people shouldn't presume to manipulate others' futures or lives believing it is for their own good! it is very hurtful and traumatising to be thrown out of a tertiary institution like that. very embarrassing to go to court and be in the papers as well...

technology moves with unimaginable speed these days. plus they can always be made cheaply in 3rd world countries... people seem to be fascinated with using robots to replace nurses!

i haven't heard of any more such incidents other than from my institution. my institution is really bad. the faculty are very judgmental and constantly abuse their power. the girl had no issues walking or moving or anything. but with obese people, naturally they will have issues with speed of walking and bending over issues... i think they tried to use that against her, saying she can't bend and reach the floor, etc... she's a really nice person and this incident really damaged her confidence. i think faculty have too much power these days and they like to abuse it. they do not consider the consequences of their decisions on others' lives. so much for being "nurses". aren't nurses supposed to be compassionate, kind, etc? the staff in our institution have been out of clinical practice for almost 20 years on average... all they do is hang around universities pushing papers and flaunting their power... really sad... just becoz they have a "Dr" in front of their names now. amazingly those without "Dr" in front of their names seem to be less abusive. maybe the whole uni thing for nurses really is a bad idea... australia wants it reverted back to the apprenticeship system and skip the uni... :monkeydance:

the NHS is a mess! yet they keep advertising in Oz for nurses to go over to UK! promising the world to the aussie nurses if they go over to UK... while UK nurses r fleeing UK! strange world have you tried ireland? seems like there's a need there... a lot of advertisements asking for nurses to go to ireland... it'll be easier for u to go to ireland than come to oz i think.. esp if u have no experience. you can try applying to "transition" or "graduate" programs in oz. but in oz, graduate places are limited as they have to be paid for by the government, and are usually given to 1)local students from the particular state, 2) then interstate students, 3) then international people. internationals will always get picked last coz the domestic people have to be covered first. also visa application takes ages, requires sponsorship and costs money and a lot of paperwork. transition and graduate programs are free as the costs are covered by government in the public hospitals and investors in the private hospitals. be prepared to wait for a long time for the approval to come through. you have to apply to the state nursing board for approval before you can apply for any program or job in the country. this can take many many months. and if you change states, you will need to apply to the new state you change to. it is true. i know people who after 8 months are still waiting on approval. each state has a different nursing board. and different ways to apply for the programs. and different number of places available. you won't be guaranteed a place. i think there's on average at least 2 to 6 on-shore people applying for each available graduate position. consider this: if u apply for the graduate or transition program, the place employing you has to shell out more money coz training, etc involves costs. but if you go straight into a position without being in any program, you are paid the salary and benefits and that's the end of it. to train a transition or graduate costs about $80,000 or more for each person. so there is a limit of positions available. the normal salary without training costs the hospital only about $50,000 a person. expensive thing training. you can still apply for jobs without experience. as long as your degree is accredited and approved by the relevant nursing boards. the problem is this takes ages. so betweeen approval and getting the job, you'll probably have months to spare. what will you do then? you would not be able to work in Oz without approval. but i guess you might be able to work as auxiliary or domiciliary nurse. that's what most people do while waiting for approval. problem is how will you apply for immigration visa? if you apply to the particular hospital you want to work for and they are willing to sponsor you for the visa, then they'll probably let you apply to work there as auxiliary nurse while your accredition is being approved. usually if you do a program in one place, they want you to stay there for a few years after. coz they invested in you. if you leave they have to train someone else. esp in private hospitals. it's a waste of money to them if you leave with the skills they gave you. but in public systems, you might be able to change between facilities as they are under the same umbrella, so to speak. i wouldn't necessarily say private or public is better. the standard is pretty much the same. the thing is private hospitals are usually not as large as public hospitals, so you don't get as much general exposure to differnt types of trauma or diseases. plus large hospitals are usually teaching hospitals so there's more diversity in cases and programs. private hospitals are more personal. everyone knows everyone. public hospitals being such huge places and staff being more or less "civil servants" are not as "intimate" as private hospital staff. i wouldn't necessarily say public has more support either. i find private hospitals to be just as supportive. preferably you'll join the nursing union to cover your ass whether you're in public or private. there are some really exceptional private hospitals around. and some good public ones too. each facility is different. and there's different personalities and cultures as well. as a new grad without experience, if you get approved and accepted to work in oz, you'll most likely be on the med-surg general floor or mental or rehab wards. no ER, OR or ICU places. coz all the ICU, OR and ER places are even more expensive to train due to being specialties, and these places are usually given to domestic people... hope this all helps! :monkeydance:

if you want to work in oz, get nursing board approval and visa approval first above anything else! this takes months. if you're approved as a registered nurse, with your description, you'll probably be able to work as a psych nurse immediately. depending on which state/facility you go to. but you definitely do not need extra post grad certificate to work as psych nurse.

the NHS is a mess! yet they keep advertising in Oz for nurses to go over to UK! promising the world to the aussie nurses if they go over to UK... while UK nurses r fleeing UK! strange world have you tried ireland? seems like there's a need there... a lot of advertisements asking for nurses to go to ireland... it'll be easier for u to go to ireland than come to oz i think.. esp if u have no experience. you can try applying to "transition" or "graduate" programs in oz. but in oz, graduate places are limited as they have to be paid for by the government, and are usually given to 1)local students from the particular state, 2) then interstate students, 3) then international people. internationals will always get picked last coz the domestic people have to be covered first. also visa application takes ages, requires sponsorship and costs money and a lot of paperwork. transition and graduate programs are free as the costs are covered by government in the public hospitals and investors in the private hospitals. be prepared to wait for a long time for the approval to come through. you have to apply to the state nursing board for approval before you can apply for any program or job in the country. this can take many many months. and if you change states, you will need to apply to the new state you change to. it is true. i know people who after 8 months are still waiting on approval. each state has a different nursing board. and different ways to apply for the programs. and different number of places available. you won't be guaranteed a place. i think there's on average at least 2 to 6 on-shore people applying for each available graduate position. consider this: if u apply for the graduate or transition program, the place employing you has to shell out more money coz training, etc involves costs. but if you go straight into a position without being in any program, you are paid the salary and benefits and that's the end of it. to train a transition or graduate costs about $80,000 or more for each person. so there is a limit of positions available. the normal salary without training costs the hospital only about $50,000 a person. expensive thing training. you can still apply for jobs without experience. as long as your degree is accredited and approved by the relevant nursing boards. the problem is this takes ages. so betweeen approval and getting the job, you'll probably have months to spare. what will you do then? you would not be able to work in Oz without approval. but i guess you might be able to work as auxiliary or domiciliary nurse. that's what most people do while waiting for approval. problem is how will you apply for immigration visa? if you apply to the particular hospital you want to work for and they are willing to sponsor you for the visa, then they'll probably let you apply to work there as auxiliary nurse while your accredition is being approved. usually if you do a program in one place, they want you to stay there for a few years after. coz they invested in you. if you leave they have to train someone else. esp in private hospitals. it's a waste of money to them if you leave with the skills they gave you. but in public systems, you might be able to change between facilities as they are under the same umbrella, so to speak. i wouldn't necessarily say private or public is better. the standard is pretty much the same. the thing is private hospitals are usually not as large as public hospitals, so you don't get as much general exposure to differnt types of trauma or diseases. plus large hospitals are usually teaching hospitals so there's more diversity in cases and programs. private hospitals are more personal. everyone knows everyone. public hospitals being such huge places and staff being more or less "civil servants" are not as "intimate" as private hospital staff. i wouldn't necessarily say public has more support either. i find private hospitals to be just as supportive. preferably you'll join the nursing union to cover your ass whether you're in public or private. there are some really exceptional private hospitals around. and some good public ones too. each facility is different. and there's different personalities and cultures as well. as a new grad without experience, if you get approved and accepted to work in oz, you'll most likely be on the med-surg general floor or mental or rehab wards. no ER, OR or ICU places. coz all the ICU, OR and ER places are even more expensive to train due to being specialties, and these places are usually given to domestic people... hope this all helps! :monkeydance:

with agency, you can keep changing agencies if you don't like any particular one. some agencies offer more benefits then others and some have excellent rewards program. some are pretty bad. if you would like recommendations, please PM me as i dont want to offend any agencies that might see this post. agencies also pay more than hospitals. its the nature of agency work. as a casual in a hospital or as an agency personnel, you might not be able to access any benefits such as paid leave and health cover. casuals get paid more than permanent staff becoz permanent staff have benefits but casuals do not. in the long run, i think a permanent position pays better than agency. unless you are able to manage your agency jobs really well. i know of people who work for more than one agency and gross much more than hospital staff. agency work also usually requires you to travel to different places to work. sometimes you can do a contract with one hospital. from what i hear from my colleagues who come from UK, they hated working in UK becoz the workload in UK is about double compared to Oz. Oz is more relaxed. most UK nurses do very well in Oz. they seem to have good experience and adapt pretty well. how much the agency offers you per week really is a ball park thing. what you get paid is how much hours you put in. agencies like to brag about how much they can pay! its a recruitment tactic. some people don't like agency work becoz they dont like travelling, and they can't adapt to different places. you have to be very flexible to be agency nurse. every hospital and setting is different. also, some permanent staff in hospitals dont take kindly to agency staff. for some reason they think agency staff are invading their space or are not as qualified! it's a work culture thing i guess... humans... have a fear of invasion. also, permanent staff have a rapport with other permanent staff... new staff can be seen as intruding... in time they'll accept you .... in time but generally oz is a great place to work. people are pretty friendly. bullying is not as common as in other countries i believe. :monkeydance:

hello! did anyone see the thing on tv about someone inventing a robotic nurse which replaces the OR nurse? it's going to be on the market in a few years! this robotic device does everything the first assistant does! except it makes no mistakes coz every instrument is computer recorded and none will go missing or be left in patient. it even picks up and delivers and replaces the instrument for the surgeon! basically it really does everything a first assistant does! it can even record via camera where the instrument went so you can find it if it goes "missing"! is this bad news for OR nurses? :monkeydance:

we did a research on nurses and found that actually the nursing profession has the highest number of anorexics compared to other professions (barring modelling of course). but it is true that nurses get spoiled by patients sometimes. with all the candy and chocolates and cakes nurses receive from patients and families... nurses love their food! everytime theres an inservice or event at the hospital, if there's free food, all the nurses will come. if theres not food, no nurse will come! :monkeydance:

go for your priorities first above other things! do what's more important to you. in my class, we had about 7 girls falling pregnant. they come to class with their pregnant bellies and everyone rubs their tummies but none of them were able to make it through clinicals. during the weeks of clinicals, they would become really tired and sick. becoz you'll be on your feet all the time. not so good for pregnant women. what they do is, for those classes with clinicals, they would defer it till after the baby comes. usually it is only a semester or a year of deferring. then they jump back on and do it part time so that they can care for their baby. one of the girls came back to class a week after giving birth! you'll need a lot of energy and organisation skills i think. with children you'll be up all night, and you'll have to manage the lives of 2 people - baby and yours... there's only 24 hours and so much energy in one day... but they are happy. and none of them dropped out permanently. i think if you really want to make it work, it will work out. but probably do uni and work part time... anything's possible :monkeydance: