mvanz9999

Oh....a word of advice to those just starting the program....my comments only pertain to the graduate portion of the program. With the exception of the whole "BSN" issue, the first 15 months does a fantastic job of preparing you to be a nurse. No matter how much you think you're not ready, when you pass the NCLEX, you will be ready. Much more so than most new graduates. Use your instructors. Ask them a million questions. Most of them have been nurses way longer than the rest of us have been alive. Listen to them and learn as much as you can. Graduate program is a totally different story.

I realize I am late to the party, but you are correct...I am disgruntled. 1. Almost NO hospital will offer you retroactive tuition reimbursement (well, the VA will), none will offer 100% reimbursement. And there certainly are strings attached when your employer does offer you tuition reimbursement. Loyola does offer tuition reimbursement as long as you attend LOYOLA SCHOOL OF NURSING. If you are at...say...UIC, you get $395/yr. True fact. 2. I have transferred to another hospital which does offer tuition reimbursement. The maximum is $8,000/year which leaves me short by about....$16,000. In addition, accepting that tuition reimbursement requires me to agree to remain at that hospital for 3 years after graduation. With the job market the way it is, it is a horrible idea to tie yourself to one hospital. If they do not hire NPs or do not have any NP openings, the education you worked so hard to complete will go to waste. 3. Good luck getting a job without a BSN (or an ADN). Many hospitals (especially those that are renewing Magnet status) require 100% of their new hires to have a BSN. Current staff nurses are required complete their BSN within 5 years. They will not hire a nurse without a BSN. No exceptions. I have been there. On the bright side, community hospitals will be more than willing to hire you. That's all I have to say about that. When you have completed the program and gone job hunting, feel free to make comments. If you peruse the board, you will see I am not the only person taking issue with the poor design of these programs. One final comment: college ranking and education provided are not related. Yeah, UIC is ranked #11. So what? I know plenty of nurses who graduated from city colleges that could nurse circles around top school graduates. Remember, UIC is very, very picky about who they admit. If they only admit top students, of course they are going to graduate top nurses, regardless of the education.

Wow. The first person that states what I think! It makes no difference, in general, what order you connect your drips. People are fond of stating that the fastest fluid in the back of your other connections will make them flow faster and at a more consistent rate. However, it really makes no difference. The higher flow rate fluid in the back isn't pushing anything. Think of your maintenance fluid like a river. It's flowing at a fast rate, regardless of where you add something (front or back). It gets watered down and carried along with the river regardless of where you add it.

I haven't quite finished my MS, but I went to UIC's GEP program (graduate in May). I can't speak about hiring problems because I know pretty much ANY NP has a difficult time finding work (average from license to job in Illinois is about 1 year). I went part time and I'm now working in the CCU at Loyola. I cannot imagine even passing clinicals without having bedside experience. Simply being in the environment and getting used to reading notes and lab reports will help you astronomically. If you choose to go the NP route without having minimum experience as an RN, you are going to cheat yourself out of learning in those very, very, very expensive clinicals. I certainly wouldn't want to care for patients without having a nursing background to build on. I don't know about other people's circumstances, but I personally need things like....a paycheck and health insurance. It takes roughly 3 months just to become licensed after graduating along with another 9-12 months to find a job.....I certainly wouldn't want the weight of health insurance, a mortgage, and school loans to weigh on me with everything else....

I, too, have heard this from UIC faculty. The DNP is no longer projected to be minimum education by 2015. My suggestion is that you go for M.S. (and I've been putting in my threads that you WILL be awarded an M.S. degree NOT an M.S.N.). You can always apply to the DNP during your MS program, should you find UIC to your liking. If not, why continue?

I don't know if AnneP is still checking this thread, but here's your answer. I graduate with my M.S. from UIC in May. Be warned, you are NOT getting M.S.N. You are legally getting a M.S. degree with a focus on nursing (can't explain why, them's the rules). It takes roughly 3 years to finish the program after 15 months. While there is nothing legally preventing you from going "full time" you will find that the class offerings prevent you from moving any faster than 3 years. In addition, anyone that tries to become an NP without working as a nurse is shooting themselves in the foot. I've been through the program, and you'll find yourself completely lost without some nursing experience to build on (which is why I wouldn't recommend even trying to move faster than 3 years). The bad news is, despite what you've been told, the additional 3 years will cost slightly more than the first 15 months. I paid for my summer semesters (all 4 of them) at roughly $4,000 a semester (which isn't easy with a wife, a mortgage, and car payments, and several hundred dollars worth of books every 4 months), and I will still end up with roughly $100K in debt. Shocking considering the salary range of NPs in Illinois. Had I know this was going to cost more than 1/2 my home, I would have thought twice. Finally, be prepared...NO ONE at UIC will give you a straight answer. On Monday you'll be told A and on Tuesday it will be B. In fact, pretty much everything I've written should be taken with a grain of salt because by tomorrow the information will be outdated and/or changed.

Hello all: I've been mostly missing from the board during the past year due to being in nursing school and up to my eyeballs in work. I still have to make it until May, but I'm wondering what other peoples' plans are for working after graduation. As I understand it, Illinois no longer hires new grads "license pending", which means one must have a license in order to be hired at all. As I see it, it takes roughly 30 days (or so) for the administration to notify PearsonVue of my eligibility to take the NCLEX and then another 4 weeks or so to take the exam and receive the license. So really, at the completion of my program, I have 2 months or so to "not work". How are new grads handling this issue? I cannot be without income for those two months. That's absurd. Yet it appears that I cannot actually work without a license. Does this mean Illinois grads get jobs at Starbucks? This is just an issue I'd like to deal with now since I'll have enough other stress in the Spring semester.

Joe: I'm currently in the midst of a direct-entry program at "the other school". The current program ends with a MSN. We have been offered the option to switch directly into the DNP program and at this time...no one has done it. I can see both "sides" of the issue (and so can the entire class). I would eventually like to get a DNP and since I'm a bit older, I'd prefer to just get it done without going through the trauma and PITA of re-applying (and possibly not being accepted) to the school I just left. The other side is just what pinoyNP stated. There is a whirlwind of opposition to the DNP from the AMA and that doesn't bode well for the degree (particularly in Illinois). I've heard arguments before and against pursing a DNP from many current NPs and I don't have enough information to really make a decision at this point. Which means I'm staying with the MSN unless a revelation changes my mind. It also will depend a great deal on where I work as an RN while I finish the current program. If I don't get 100% tuition reimbursement, no way I'm going to pony up money for the DNP.

It's already been said, but I'm going to say it again anyway. By the time you get through nursing school, you'll have TONS of experience with poop and I suspect it won't bother you in the least. Or at least not as much as it does now.

Oops! Sorry for the confusion.

Ah! A nicely written post. And I see the confusion. I would then go with the idea that it is important for nurses of any level to be trained to "think like a nurse". I perhaps incorrectly associate those bedside nursing skills with training to think like a nurse. Which I guess might or might not be the case, I have neither the experience nor the research to answer that question. While basic skills may not be necessary or even helpful in training one to "think like a nurse", I find doing these immensely helpful to me. It is not the performance of skills per se, but it is interacting with patients in often intimate ways. I have always felt that my training focuses less on skill performance and more on patient interaction. The focus of my clinicals has been on assessment and patient interaction while performing other routine tasks. The tasks have not really been the end goal. As I have pointed out in previous posts, I cannot speak about any Direct Entry programs other than my own. In MY DE program, we spend 3-4 years working as an RN WHILE completing the NP portion of training. At the end I will have 3-4 years of experience working as an RN (not a student) and that should provide a great deal of perspective from an RN point of view. I also don't know whether this is necessary or not, but this is the path that I have chosen.

............

I am aware of direct-entry programs because I am in one. I'm not sure who all these "people" are that professing nursing is not about bedside care. I have not met a respectable nurse or nurse-educator that states this. Bedside care is the foundation of nursing and it is from this that all other opportunities have grown. It is from this common foundation that you can grow into other opportunities. This is a base that all nurses should have in common, so that regardless of what a working nurse actually does, there is this training that all nurses have in common. Nurses are far too fragmented and segmented as it is. I would think removing the common training of bedside care would only serve to further fragment nurses as professionals, and drastically slow growth. I still don't see how this is different from any other profession. A lawyer whose goal is to have a practice focusing on personal injury cases must still sit through lengthy classes on tax code, real estate and corporate law. They have a common training base and specialize over time. Is the ability to argue a case in a courtroom a necessary component of the attorney profession? Absolutely not, yet they all learn to do it. How is this any different from nursing? I am of the opinion that bedside care is fundamental to being a nurse of any level or specialty. If you are a NP that does pre-op assessments in a neurosurgery center, I expect that you know bedside care. Is bedside care a necessary component of the nursing profession? Absolutely not. Is is a necessary component of nurse TRAINING? Absolutely YES.

I actually think I don't understand your point. You are suggesting that there should be a mid-level provider of some name that is not "nurse practitioner" and that does not contain nurse training that is not needed, such as bed-making and changing IV bags. So really you are talking about something that is not a nurse practitioner, and something that would not really be in place on a nursing forum such as this. I still think this would be a horrible idea. Getting the "nursing" part of training requires ALL aspects of RN training. That's what I'm saying. That includes bedmaking, changing IV's and so on. That's what makes good nurse-practitioners well rounded and differentiated from other providers. Theoretically, where would anyone draw the line? Who would say training in IV insertion is necessary, but not emptying Foley bags. Or that dressing changes are required, but not range-of-motion exercises. Not only would that be impractical, it would be silly. Why not then re-structure all of medical training. After all, a neurosurgeon probably doesn't need to know how to deliver babies, and it would certainly shorten the length of medical training. A gerontologist shouldn't probably bother with a pediatric rotation. Part of an RN training (and medical training) is simply to expose you to different areas so that you can find what most intrigues you, without having to accept and quickly resign from a dozen jobs. The same is true of physician training. I actually WANT to rotate through surgery, pediatrics, OB/GYN, women's health, community health, psych, and so on. In my opinion, the methodology of the nurse in Nurse Practitioner is gained through training as an RN. Even the most basic tasks need to be considered in a holistic approach. What you are proposing is entirely different from current Direct-Entry programs. Therefore, all the evidence that says traditional and DE nurse practitioners are the same after one year is not relevant. You would first have to research whether traditional NP's and Mid-Level providers are equivalent. What you would base this on, I don't know. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you are attempting to cut out. Or maybe we have different viewpoints and will have to agree to disagree.

Becoming a Nurse Practitioner without formal training as a nurse (and that means all of the skill sets) would be quite pointless. You are then not a "nurse" practitioner. You are a mid-level provider of some sort, but missing everything that makes a nurse practitioner different from similar professionals (mainly in that NPs have nursing theory and skills). A RN education program would never be approved without teaching a given set of clinical competencies. A school wouldn't even have the option of teaching "IV insertion" and not "Bed-making" (at least not a school with a shred of academic integrity). Nor would there be a point. Regardless of how you get from A to B, you'll eventually have to take the NCLEX and experience is worth 100 textbooks. You learn for more from doing than from reading something in a book. That includes bedmaking, measuring input-output, changing dressings, getting ice-water, feeding patients, and scores of other "non-NP tasks" Regardless of where I end up in life, I wouldn't trade these experiences for anything. The thing I will always remember from this time in my life is sitting next to a confused elderly patient and feeding her. Nothing would be worth NOT having that experience (and all the others). This is where you learn how to interact with patients in scores of situations. It's where you learn the skills that make you different than MD's and PA's and everyone else in the hospital. If a person is not interested in bedside nursing, then pursing an NP is the wrong route. We've had a couple of those in class, and they wisely dropped out and pursued other careers. I've never once had the thought that making a bed was stupid, pointless, a waste of time, or was preventing me from doing "my real studying". Bed-making IS part of my education (and I do make a fine bed, at that!). I enjoy every second I am in the hospital, regardless of what I am doing. Cutting out RN training and experience would only weaken a profession that is just beginning to grow and expand. And, if you remove RN training, then you ARE a physician's assistant. So if that's how someone feels, I recommend going that route. You might become an NP but you are still a nurse and will always be a nurse.

OK then. I guess we'll see you in January! Congratulations!

Yay! Something I'm good at! No they are not. Opiates refer to drugs that are derived from compounds present in opium (morphine, codiene, etc). Narcotic is an imprecise term related to analgesics, CNS depressants, or any drug capable of causing physical dependence, or legally, drugs like LSD or marijuana. The key being that the term "narcotic" is imprecise. For question two, I would say 'yes'. Benzodiazepines are not barbituates, so they would have to go into the non-barbituate category. Although that is a really dumb way of dividing it up (that being directed at the publisher, not you). These are not dumb questions. What would be dumb is guessing. Cheers!

I use the term holistic in the same manner that you do. I'm not sure where this is going from the original question.... Sounds to me like what you are looking for is a PhD. I know a lot of people that do research as nurses, and they hold PhD's. They do exactly what you are talking about....research in pain, asthma, oncology and on and on and on. They generally focus on both treatments and holistic practices (in the way you use the term). While it is true that all of these people are also university faculty, many of them teach very part time (around 25%). Perhaps that would suit you.

Hi dinah77. I went through this also (last year). It is horrible, horrible, horrible. I also know nothing I say can stop the anxiety. But, just know that others have suffered as well. Best of luck to you!

Why not go the ACNP route, then? Just curious....

Do APNs use nursing diagnosis, or do they simply use the standard (and more meaningful) medical diagnosis? Thanks!

I don't understand what is wrong with what you just wrote. If you write "I want to help people", your application will likely go in the reject pile. But that isn't what you just wrote in your post. Why can't you just write what you posted? The focus is how you came to this decision, which you explained quite nicely. Leave out the stuff about how you think speech therapy is dumb or wasn't intended as a career. Just focus on how you discovered the importance of basic health care needs and go from there.

How about SAS shoes? You would need to find an SAS retail outlet and try them on. I thought they were horrible, but I have high arches. I figure they might be good for flat feet? People seem to love them, but they are not for me. http://walking.about.com/od/prshoe/fr/sasshoes.htm

I don't think that's too far of a stretch either. There aren't really THAT many CRNA programs and I have no doubt the ratio could be that high. You have to remember it's NOT all about GPA (or at least most places). It's the whole package.

I picked New Balance, because you're right. If they don't like the bits of grey, I've got white nail polish....