Regalnurse

When interviewing, pretend for a moment that you are interviewing someone (you are the supervisor) who is hiring a recovering drug addict or alcoholic and what is your human instinct and nature asking you? Your human nature is begging the question to you, "Can I hire this person? She seems nice, but I have a large group of employees and I'm not sure if she will stay clean or sober." Afterall, your mind wonders and says to yourself, " I have a first cousin or a brother or a sister who is an addict and they have promised their sobriety numerous times, but they keep having to go to rehab." Now......this is what actually goes through the brains of most supervisors/employers when they are across the desk doing an interview and this is the barrier you have to get past. So, how do you do that? In addition to what Allnurses responded with, you need to HAMMER HOME at some point in the interview about how recovery is Your Life. Its your pasttime. Its what you do after work and its not "something you are going through," or "something you are complying with," but recovery is your life and quickly and swiftly, you HAMMER HOME how your recovery is also other human beings recovery in the form of you now helping others in recovery and bringing them into recovery and mentoring them. You see, the average person or family member that the Employer/Supervisor knows who is an addict that relapses over and over and lets their family and/or friends down likely Never was an actual recovery Leader or Teacher. They were likely a participant. Exceptions apply of course, but this is the general rule. So, at some point in the interview, triple emphasize how recovery is your life, it's what you do, you love it, and that you actually are a leader and you help bring others into recovery and mentor them. Do you see how powerful this is for the Supervisor setting on the fence about whether or not to hire you or trust you? Their decision is largely (not completely) but largely based on whether or not they think you will use or drink again and that decision can be heavily influenced by you sharing how recovery is not just your life, but how you lead, teach, and mentor others in recovery.

I commend you and hope you are successful. There is no question about the BONs not adopting re-entry and monitoring guidelines based on sound recovery data/best available data. BONs don't go by the best available evidence because........Concrete Operations. With this thinking, there is rigidity, lack of adaptation or change, borderline ignorance. That's exactly why I have told you. Basic education level for the BON should require a graduate degree and THEN......things change rapidly because you have people in formal operations type thinking that will actually apply best available evidence to monitoring programs. Medical Monitoring Programs don't have the amount of complaints relating to the legality of the Medical Monitoring Program based on a sound legal argument. Yes, there are complaints because let's face it, human nature says there will be complaints, but Medical Boards are applying sound evidence to their monitoring programs so any complaints have very little legally changing impact. Nurse Boards on the other hand operate completely from the hip and they have very shaky legality at best.

I wish you all the best and hope it does work. Remember this, you can change the "system" all you wish. If you have bad people running it, it will NOT work. If you have concrete people, it will NOT work. Communism is an outstanding thought and idea. I'm not a communist by the way, but the idea is awesome on paper, everybody makes the same and has same housing and same pay........until you get bad people in charge that rob the common people and you are left with a tiny elite wealthy class and 95 percent of the rest of the people are poor. Same thing for capitalism. Great idea in theory, unless you get bad people in charge. Its extremely difficult to legislate human nature. You asked how I could help? I do NOT discourage you. I gave it to you in the first reply. In your legislative attempt, ensure the basic requirement to be a BON member is a graduate degree. That's MONUMENTAL and if you don't have a graduate degree, I don't expect you to understand, because it goes back to Concrete Operations versus Formal Operations. Understand, you don't get to simply go to the Supreme Court. You have to have a specific case that elevates to that level and there are lots of courts in between. As soon as the BON comes under attack legally, they are very quick to play the "poor Ole little women's nurse role-routine," and "we work hard and are just trying to protect patients." These are the same ones on the BON with Zero empathy, but they are brilliant at playing the heart strings of the public. That attorney or judge at the state administrative law level or that congress person running for re-election that is thinking of taking action against the state BON? He or she is immediately scrutinized for "picking on nurses at the BON," and "not caring about public safety," and this person backs off on support because they will lose re-election if they support action against the BON. Their opponent running against them has an easy target because their opponent portrays them as someone who is "taking the side of dirty or drug addict nurses verses sidingnwith the "righteous" BON. The above are multiple reasons why its alarmingly difficult to go after the BON. Again, I refer you to the Medical Boards for physicians. Notice how there aren't as many problems in their state medical monitoring programs for physicians? Its not because their "system" is better. Its because they have Doctorate Degree prepared people on their Medical State Board that are EDUCATED and that means....according to Piaget, Formal Operations (advances thinkers, thinkers that consider all sides) versus the Nurse Board with Concrete Operations according to Piaget (concrete reasoning, rigid, stiff, low empathy) and protecting their position of power at all costs. Fix the education thing at the BONs across America and you would find that there is a rapid turn around with how monitoring programs work and function, and it would turn around quickly. If you disagree with what Im saying, I again refer you to take a look at Medical Boards and their monitoring programs and how fewer complaints there are. When Nurse Boards are often asked to comment or when a Nurse BON member gives a historic comment about Medical Board (Physician) Monitoring Programs, what does the BON member do? She doubles down with that concrete thick skull of hers and that lack of education level and goes complete concrete operations level and states, "the Medical Board Monitoring Program is too soft and the physicians in their program have it to easy." I've set in on BON meetings and was a former BON member. I have heard those ignorant words echoed multiple times and you know what is scarier? 80 percent of the rest of the BON members Agree With Her! Legislation only helps this if there is a requirement that to serve on the BON, one must have a graduate degree, and nurses are so vague from LPNs to Doctorate Prepared Nurses that the chances of this happening are Zero because this post in and of itself will turn off 50 percent of nurses reading the post on this forum.

Thanks for sharing. Here is the problem nobody or few want to talk about and this will hit hard, but it's true. For starters, I am a female. I wish we had MORE men on BONs. Let's be honest, women nurses can be brutal to each other. The old saying that "nurses eat their own," was started by physicians (mostly men at the time) who observed the treatment of the senior or more experienced nurses (mostly women) and how they treated younger-newer nurses. It was so alarming to them having witnessed this on hospital wards for many years that the joke came amount. This carries over to state BONs. You have concrete thinking by mostly women that correlates with low empathy. Additionally, we are one of the few professions in the world that has an LPN (takes 12 to 18 months to attain) up to a PHD (8 years). All of those are called "nurse." The problem is, we have BONs that have LPNs on them or 2 year ADNs on them. There is nothing wrong with a 2 year ADN. But, Piagets Theory points out that the more education you have, the more likely you are to enter formal operations (advanced reasoning from all angles). And Piaget says, the less education you have, the greater chance that you are stuck in the concrete operations stage (concrete thinking.) Concrete thinking is related to less empathy and rigid thinking without viewing the emotional components of the situation. This is the problem with State BONs. Half of the BON has people stuck in concrete operations-thinking and lower empathy. Take a look at the Boards of Medicine. Everyone has a Doctorate Degree and the level of advanced thinking (formal operations) is much higher and that often equates to more empathy and less rigid thinking. Until you have a law or rule that says that everyone on the BON must have a graduate level degree, we will continue have problems. It doesn't matter how much legislating you do, concrete thinking is incredibly difficult to get around and overturn. Concrete thinking females in the nursing profession are even more difficult to deal with because you have a person who sees any challenge to their thinking or methods as "an attack on iur female profession," and so the concrete nurse here doesnt advance to formal-advanced operations and change their way of thinking, but they actually Double Doen, get angry, and dig deeper intontheir rigidty. And yes, we actually need more Men on the BONs. I've met many male nurses and some are not so good and some are very good, but most of them are very compassionate and have high levels of empathy compared to some of the concrete, blockhead and rigid thinking female nurses that have empathy levels approaching near zero, and many of these are setting on BONs. That state medical boards don't have this problem with their monitoring recovery programs. Want to know why? More education (this means less concrete thinking and more empathy) and more men (they don't eat their own like we do.) The Medical Board recovery monitoring programs aren't easy, but they are fair and its entirely different than ours. Until you make at least a Bachelor's Degree, preferably a Masters Degree the minimum requirement to set on the BON, you can forget about fixing it. It will not change. Even if legislative action is taken, they will find a way to double down and subvert. Piaget is Theory explains it best. Concrete Operations vs Formal Operations. It is exceedingly difficult to move out of concrete operations without advanced education. Its been tried and tried for decades and its near impossible to overcome without it.

1. Good job on keeping low profile and regarding a missed check in, but testing on the same day, I wouldn't recommend it, but I......kind of would once. If you miss a check in and testing on the same day, it looks Overwhelmingly Favorable! There's actually More kudo points for this than there is to check in that day and not being selected because it shows you are clearly not hiding anything. Obviously, never purposely miss a check in, but if you do, TEST that day REGARDLESS of what your case manager says 2 days later "you didn't have to test." This is BS. If you are unlucky enough to be selected that day and you didn't test, you have major problems. 2. I have met probably over 50 nurses in the last 10 years that never hair tested. Of those 50, none of them had more than 2 dilutes and none had over 2 missed check ins. If you miss a check in, but you test that day, its basically treated like you never missed a check in. The odds of you having a hair test are 50/50 if you have never had one. If you get it, it will occur with 1-2 months (about 4-8 weeks left) in the program. If you make it to 3 weeks left in the program timeframe and haven't been selected for a hair test, then you won't be. They have to have plenty of time to get the results and do confirmation if necessary or do another test if the tech messes up the sample. so it won't happen with 3 weeks or less left and likely will not happen Before you have 2 months left. It would occur between having 1 month and 2 months left and I would bet 50/50.

Im not sure what the poster is talking about other than the poster is maybe insinuating that the Nurse put herself in the situation with alcohol and that was "sneaky" on her part, so if the BON is sneaky, so be it. She kind of "deserves it." Otherwise, there wouldnt have been the potential meets kettle comment. That is all I can think of as to what the poster meant. But, its flawed or Fallacy driven in 2 ways. The first Fallacy is that the BON and one individual nurse are the Same. In fact, they are not. One is a professional organization held to high standards (as is the nurse), but the BON hasn't been punished for being "sneaky" and often gets away with its abused power without consequences. So, this disproves the "pot meets kettle" comment. The nurse paid her 4 years. She paid her debt for her "sneaky" actions. The BON never does and I'm not saying BONs are always corrupt. More often, they are actually fair and just, but sometimes, they do abuse their power and they don't pay the consequences when they do. The second Fallacy is.......regardless of what the poster said and if we assume its 100 percenttrue, it doesnt change my original point about not being officially done until the BON meets and clears you, regardless of who was "sneaky" or not. So, the point is kind of irrelevant whether its true or untrue.

My friend was not sneaky. She got a DUI and was guilty of it and admitted it and never denied it and completed her time and recovered and now helps others in recovery. Not really sure what you are talking about (pot vs kettle)

Just got a call from a friend in a Midwestern State, and the Board of Nursing (BON) can be incredibly sneaky. She just graduated from her 4-year monitoring program due to alcohol. However, her consent order (like most consent orders in most states) is NOT final until the BON officially closes it at their next scheduled meeting. The Timeline Gap (The Danger Zone)March 30th: Her 4-year monitoring program ended. She was done checking in, finished with required program testing, and officially graduated from monitoring. Mid-May (5 days ago): The next official BON meeting took place, which is when they finally closed out her consent order. The Catch: 10 days before that mid-May BON meeting, the BON directly ordered a PEth Test. Important Note:This test was not ordered by her monitoring program (as she was completely done with them). It was a direct, legal order from the BON itself, giving her 72 hours to complete it. Why This is LegalMost consent orders state that you must remain completely free of substances and mind-altering drugs/alcohol for the entire duration of the consent order, not just the monitoring program. Fortunately, she is strong in her recovery, did not drink, tested negative, and the BON officially terminated her order. Key Takeaways & WarningsThe Reality: You are NOT done just because your monitoring program graduates you and you can no longer check in. You are only officially done when the BON terminates your consent order at a board meeting. The Fine Print: Most consent orders allow the BON to order its own independent test at any time while the order is active. The "Lag Time" Risk: If you live in a state with bi-monthly BON meetings (once every two months) and you graduate monitoring 30 to 45 days before the next meeting, this lag time increasingly triggers the BON to order a final test a week or two before they meet. The Bottom LineIf you graduate monitoring within 30 days of the next meeting, a surprise test is extremely rare. But if your gap is 30 days or more, it is becoming much more common. If you choose to drink before that final board meeting, you are playing with fire. Do not assume that because your monitoring program did its final hair or PEth tests that you are completely safe. Wait until you have the official termination paperwork in hand before you consider your life back to normal.

Only you can decide on quitting that job or getting another one or not working at all for 9 months. Your call, BUT I can tell you this, the BON and your monitoring program don't care if you have had 4 jobs in monitoring, but they usually do care that you work somewhere. The BON and monitoring programs are not stupid. They know that nurses in monitoring programs and with restrictions and/or probation and chrck in requirements and testing requirements often have to settle and get stuck with shi%%y jobs while in monitoring programs and rotate jobs a bit. Be sure your monitoring program doesn't require a minimum amount of years required to work while in monitoring. Many states require 3 years of working as a nurse during that 5 years of monitoring. Be dang sure you have met that requirement if it exists. Also, be sure you don't have a rule in your monitoring program that states you have to be employed at the time of discharge/graduation. Some monitoring programs require that you are employed at the time of your graduation. If you are financially able and you don't have the work requirements in your monitoring program as listed above, then simply quitting and chilling out for 9 months might be an option IF financially doable. Otherwise, if you decide that job isn't doable for another 9 months, but you need to work or have to work based on monitoring requirements or finances, then find another job Before you quit your current one. Also, be 100 percent SURE you actually have that other job before you quit. That means.....don't let HR pull a fast one over on you and you are being told for 4 weeks by nursing that you have the job only to be told 3 days before you are supposed to start that human resources has rejected you, and now you are without any job.

Nursing schools wouldnt care. The nursing school wants to be sure you can do clinicals at the school without restriction. For example, if part of yoir clinical is at a nursing home, you better have no restrictions onnnursing home practice.

How many times you have diverted is irrelevant. Its all about how many times a criminal case has been opened/AG involvement, and since its never in your case, that helps. What can improve your chances of getting into a PreTrial Intervention Program? Rehab. Pre trial intervention programs are ran and operated by the AG. The AG is also known as the prosecutor or District Attorney. Same person and called 3 different things depending on your state. That AG has to Agree with/allow your defense attorney to allow you into the program. What is common as part of that agreement? A 6 week PHP program. Its automatic. If you haven't gone to a PHP since your most recent diversion, trust me, you are going if you want in a PreTrial Intervention program. They don't care if you went 3 or 5 years ago. They will want a PHP program since your most recent diversion incident. With my PreTrial Intervention program, in addition to th requirements listed in my previous post, the obvious one was a PHP program and full compliance with my states BON monitoring program. I couldn't get admitted to the PreTrial Intervention program without having gone into a 6 week PHP program and also enrolled in a 6 week IOP program that immediately followed the PHP program. The criminal side/AG does not care about the nursing side regarding your ability to use your BON monitoring program drug test results and daily check in to fulfill requirements for the PreTrial Intervention Program Drug test requirements. You will be doing 2 programs and test when selected for the PreTrial Intervention program and for the BON monitoring program. You will be required to work or be in college. The AG doesnt care if your nurse license is suspended. They will yell you to work at a gas station or family dollar store, but you will work or you have to enter college. If I were you. If you haven't already, go to rehab now. If you aren't working or cant work, enter an online college and pursue a simple degree in something that interests you and enroll. Remember, you can withdraw from the college after you complete the program.

You are very fortunate. Back in the day, it was more common to move and get away with it. I was in Kansas and given 3 years and Texas was 5. Kansas was my home state. After the 3 years of Kansas check ins and them closing out my consent order, Texas wouldn't relent and they made me check in and test while living and working in Kansas for two more years to meet Texas requirements. I was living in Kansas and got in trouble in Kansas, but was also licensed in Texas and tried to set everything up with my lawyer at the beginning for Texas to go by the Kansas consent order and requirements. Texas refused. After the first 3 years, my license in Kansas was off probation and consent order finalized and unencumbered and no issues, Except Texas wouldn't relent. I found myself for 2 years living and working in Kansas and meeting restrictions, reports, and daily check ins and drug testing for Texas requirements and on probationn still with Texas and all of that to meet Texas requirements. I had 2 friends who were roommates move from Oregon to Michigan. Oregon gave them 5 years and Michigan was a 3 uear program. After 3 years, Michigan closed everything out and all was well except Oregon didn't relent. Made them do the Oregon remaining 2 years of requirements while living in Michigan. If you are going to move, you need to be 100 percent sure before you do. The odds nowadays are that the answer will be no, but anything is possible.

Charged with Illegal Substitution/Distribution of a narcotic which is the fancy legal way of charging for Diversion. Charged with 3 counts/felonies and each count carrying up to 5 years for a possible max sentence of 15 years. I was admitted into a pre-trial intervention program which meant I had to drug test weekly for 16 weeks, do 40 hours of community service, pay 400 dollars, and do 100 hours of meetings/recovery and either work a minimum of 20 hours per week or be in college fultime and have a minimum of a B average. The program was about 16 weeks (4 months) and after completion, all Charges dropped and the arrest record was expunged. What I went through is normal for nurses who divert their first time and get charged. Most nurses don't get charged, but some do, and if you get charged, what I described above is the common outcome for nurses of which this is their first offense. Different states have different name for this program. Their are small variances in requirements for each state and county within that state, but roughly the same. The names vary and are called things like PreTrial Intervention, PreTrial Diversion, Alternative to Sentencing, Deferred Prosecution, etc. They last from 4 months to about 1 year, and if you are compliant, criminal charges are dropped and record expunged, and if non compliant, you will serve time in prison with a felony conviction. Most nurses fall into the program described above. Some nurses cant get into a program like the one described above because their county/jurisdiction doesnt have a program like one described above, but they get into Drug Court. Drug Court is usually a little longer such as 12 to 18 months and upon completion, the nurse sometimes has the charges dropped and if charges are not dropped, the charges are reduced to simply a misdemeanor of which you technically will have a criminal record, but its not a felony. A misdemeanor isn't a career ender. A felony kind of is a career ender. A PTI program like the one I described first is the one you want, but if not available, Drug Court is option 2 because Drug Court is still better than ending up with a Felony.

Some people get no extra labs if they were perfect which means no missed check ins and no dilutes and no issues in the program. For most people, the blood test is for Peth (alcohol check that can look back 28 days) and urine which checks for recent 1-4 substance use and the 20 panel hair test with the US Drug Testing Lab as the place it goes to for hair testing. That panel includes the obvious stuff, but also checks for antihistamines like Benadryl, and also stuff that nobody thinks is tested for like Neurontin, Kratom, all opiates and benzos and weed and even SSRIs and Propofol. Its an all inclusive panel and what two or three drugs often get people nailed? Neurontin, Benadryl, and Kratom.

I was charged and prosecuted years ago. I am not a lawyer and can't give you legal advice, but I can give what is common knowledge that most people in America are well aware. That is....do not speak to the AGs office without an attorney present. Myattorney made that very clear to me. The Ole "your side of the story trick" is an attempt to build a case against you. Good Luck and yes, if you have been contacted by the AGs office, they are attempting to build a case and if they build a case, they will prosecute or attempt to prosecute. Talk to your lawyer.