Jasano

But not at all for the reasons implied. Men make more only when these other factors are taken into consideration. These articles are misleading in a number of ways. 1. They point to nursing as a high growth and high employability career, and yet so many nurses (even male nurses like myself) go unemployed. 2. These articles declare that men make more in nursing than women, but do so while implying that men have some sort of unfair advantage. The only advantage men have is due to the choices that they make versus their female colleagues. Should we pay men less because they don't leave work to raise children quite so often, or because they tend towards higher paid specialties (probably the only way to secure employment)? 3. They play into the myth that 'men are more hireable' than women in the nursing profession. Well that is not the case as I noted above - I am now going on for 6 months unemployed and I am a 'much sought after male nurse'. There are many areas of nursing which are more or less still closed to men: pediatrics was a very difficult field for men to enter - it has opened up somewhat in recent years. Maternity and obstetrics are still largely closed, and male nurses in homecare will find the hours lacking versus their female counterparts to a large degree. There are no quotas whatsoever to increase the number of male nurses that I am aware of, either in Canada or the United States. So, the bottom line is, these articles are being dishonest with men regarding the opportunities which exist in nursing. That's not to say that there aren't any - they're just not nearly as lucrative, or plentiful, as the media would have you to believe.

Here are a couple of articles from US sources telling men what lucrative profession nursing is and that male nurses will make more money than their female counterparts - ya right, discrimination lawsuits galore would be filed if that were true: Male Nurses Becoming More Commonplace â€" and Higher Paid | The Exchange - Yahoo Finance Male Nurses Make More Money - Real Time Economics - WSJ Here's one from CBS telling us how nurses are in high demand and how lucrative it is for men: Number of male U.S. nurses triple since 1970 - CBS News

Well, I'm not a new grad, I have over a decade of experience working the nursing field, but I have to say, I would not recommend men getting into this field - not at all. What irks me about all this though, is that the lies continue, and the media seems to be on a campaign blitz to encourage more men into a field already, as you say, 'saturated'. They seem to be trying to tell young men that a member in nursing equals a job - the opposite is a truer statement, but neither would be correct.

This is an ad I ran in Kijijii. I have been an unemployed nurse here in the province of Ontario now for going on 6 months. Prior to that I was employed at two seperate part-time, temporary jobs. I left one temporary job for another that promised I could stay on past the contract, but in the end, when the nurse on pregnancy leave came back, I was let go. I have sent out hundreds of resumes and have heard nothing. Meanwhile, we hear all about how male nurses have some sort of advantage. This is clearly a joke. The job I was laid off from was in mental health nursing (an area you might expect would be giving preference to men - wrong). I was the only candidate in my hiring group who in fact was male, and, moreover, was the only candidate hired on a 'temporary' basis. All of the female nurses in the room were hired on a 'permanent' basis. So much for this supposed preference. Now, I have applied for hundreds of jobs, in all areas, (minus some areas of nursing like labor and delivery, where men aren't hired anyway) and nada. A couple of months ago, I stopped applying for jobs just in nursing, but, unfortunately, everyone sees nurse and thinks why would this guy want to work at a gas station? Well, I'll tell you why: that job ad has been the only source of interviews in the 6 month period (2 total) with neither one leading to a job. For all the resumes I have sent out, I've heard nothing. I am sure that there is discrimination against men in nursing, because I've been told up front by employers in the past that I couldn't be granted the same number of hours in homecare for example, as my female counterparts - not even half as many hours in fact. However, I think there is a bigger problem here in the province of Ontario - the new grad guarantee. The government has stepped in and basically made it more difficult for older nurses like myself to find work, by agreeing to finance 6 months of full time work for all new grad nurses. What this means is, there is an absolute dearth of employment opportunities left over. I upgraded last year with a coronary care course to find those temporary part-time jobs, and this year, plan to upgrade with a critical care certificate in order to improve my chances, but I am really getting desperate as I burn through the last of my savings. Don't believe the hype guys. I talked to other male nurses (who will only talk about these things to male nurses) and guess what? They talked about massive discrimination and harassment - all of which they keep quiet to hold onto their jobs. I know the media is putting on a big drive to move men from the single digits in nursing to closer to the levels that women have achieved in medical programs (60%), but I think a lot of you will just end up like me, or like a lot of other men, who had to leave the profession to become truck drivers and construction workers for example.

I would tell anyone thinking of getting into nursing, to pursue something else. I've been a nurse for over a decade and after 9 months of searching, all I was able to come up with was a part-time casual job in pharmacy - I'm not even working as a nurse! I have the BscN with honors, years of experience, and nada. It's impossible finding work in nursing. I would like to retrain for another field where there are actually jobs available - nursing was a bad choice for me. (RN, Ontario, Canada)

I likely won't get any response, but you're right, at this point, I've exhausted all other options - maybe I should try it.

I have applied to every area of nursing, from homecare, to retirement homes, to nursing homes, to telehealth, to mental health, to hospitals - acute and chronic. I have been extremely flexible - it is just impossible for me to find a job in nursing. I have no restrictions on my license, have a decade + of experience and a Bachelor of Science Degree in Nursing (with honors) from Ryerson University. I applied for hundreds of jobs and I'm lucky to get a no thank you, or a form letter - I almost never rate an interview. What I would like is retraining for another field.

Just as an update: Well, it is now February, 2013 and I have been unable to find work in my profession. I am now working outside of nursing, in a pharmacy related job, for casual-part-time hours. I have a degree in nursing, and over a decade of experience and nada. I'm lucky if I can get an interview. My advice: don't go into nursing - the hype about shortages is just that - hype. All of the jobs are being snapped up by new grads under the Ontario government's new grad initiative, or by RPNs taking over what were once RN jobs. I'm looking for retraining to get out of this 'much sought after' profession.

I'm a male nurse who's actively been seeking employment for several months in my home province of Ontario, Canada. It's been extremely difficult and discouraging. I would not recommend the nursing field to other men, as I have always had a more difficult time than my female counterparts, in finding work. With the economy in the state that it is, career change would be ill-advised; even if your job entails watching paint dry - keep it.

I'm thinking of running this as an ad in my local newspaper as I've been out of work for 2 months with only one phone call in all of that time. I have approximately 10-15 years of experience in various areas of nursing, but there is absolutely nothing for me in Durham Region (Ontario). I do see positions posted now and again, but I never hear a word when I apply for them. Maybe it's a male nurse thing, but I find it extremely difficult to find work in this field. Any suggestions on an alternative career path - one where I might find a job?

Well, I disagree with you completely. There is no justification for discrimination against men or against women. You seem to be quite willing to overlook some rather blatant discrimination against men, because of some hardship that women have had to endure. Wrong is wrong in my view, irregardless of genitalia. ;in this, at least, women have the government, the media, all the king's horses and their little men on their side. I think it's funny that when men are discriminated against in fields like nursing, that no one bats and eye, but when some woman somewhere feels someone 'might' have treated her unfairly, the entire press gallery shows up with government officials in tow to right the 'perceived' wrong. Let me tell you boys, there are quotas for medicine, paramedics, policing and dozens if not hundreds of other professions, but there is not one quota, not one initiative, not one comittee, examining issues related to men in nursing.

These are actually falsehoods that you're spouting. Dollar for dollar, women and men make the SAME amount of money. Hour for Hour women CHOOSE to work more part-time and therefore lose out on some of the career advancement. In fact, studies have shown that men and women MAKE PRECISELY THE SAME AMOUNT of $, when allowances are made for women who've chosen to stay at home with their families. Women who've chosen career over families, make the same dollar for dollar amounts. Morever, women are earning considerably more university degrees than men, living considerably longer, and enjoying government quotas for jobs, education and promotion in a variety of fields. Even young boys are not immune to the discrimination and are doing much more poorly in language and reading skills than ever before, (in fact in terms of achievement in general) and are far more likely to flunk out at both the elementary and high school levels - these conditions the direct result of feminist changes to educational curriculum favouring young girls. (oh and these statements are true north and south of the border strangely enough) Now a few items which make this a personal issue for me (aside from the fact that I'm a male nurse). #1. Before I knew what I wanted to do for a living, I thought about being a police officer and foolishly invested thousands of my own dollars in a Law and Security program. I thought at the time, well yes, there are quotas, but even if I can't get into policing, there are other avenues. WELL, one day, a representative from a major bank came into class to speak ONLY to the females of the class regarding a $50, 000. credit card investigation job. Males taking law and security would not be eligible for the position because they were males. Bee in my bonet # 1. #2. I later thought I would try my hand at automechanics (turns out I like cars, but not getting dirty), but anyway, my brother and I each paid over a $1000.00 tuition for the program. When we completed the program, we found that no one was taking apprentices - there were no girls in our program. Now before you get excited and go off on a feminist tirade, that's because there was a separate FEMALE ONLY program being run alongside ours wherein the women paid $0.00 for tuition, and recieved job placement assistance upon completion. #3. I was in a government office, looking for jobs in nursing - I was working with several agencies, but because I was a man, was not being offered very many hours. In fact, applying to one agency I was told that I could not be given 30 hours a week, even though they had just finished telling me that their entire staff was overworked - doing upwards of 60 hours a week in many cases. The problem? They couldn't offer as many hours to a "man". But I digress, so I was in the government office, looking for additional part-time and casual jobs to supplement my income when I came across a document entitled - "doctoral programs for women". Thinking I might like to advance my education at the university level (I was only an LPN at the time), I noted that the government was willing to pay all expenses for university attendance - the catch>? It was a program only open to WOMEN. Oh that's two bees in that bonet. So yes, I think feminism has progressed well past any concept of fairness, into what I would term, "the preferential me first, give me.. give me.. mode".

IMHO you're one hundred percent right - we have become a gender fixated society, and we owe much of our plight, from broken families, to broken marriages, and yes even gender-fixation in areas like nursing to our rampant and (quite rabid), feminist underpinnings. That said, I wouldn't blame the ANA in particular - believe me, the same biases exist here in Canada i.e. here in Ontario under the CNO - "College of Nurses of Ontario" and probably every westernized nation. I love reading through sexist nursing literature written, not 10 years ago, but last MONTH, stating things like a nurse shall provide professional care and "SHE" will adhere to... blah blah blah. But I digress to say this... We might as well just forget about it guys, because no one is listening to men in nursing, (or men in general for that matter). There aren't any commissions studying the special difficulties that men face in female-dominated professions and there never will be! In many respects, I see that the gender balance has totally flipped. Speaking of flipped, with quotas out the wazoo for every supposedly male-dominated profession under the sun and no consideration whatsoever for men in fields like nursing, I would say that we can safely declare this society "done".

Ha! An excellent post! I too suffered discrimination while undergoing my nursing training and can empathize with you - I rarely suffer such discrimination from members of the public or from my female colleagues, but nursing school was hell - you could tell us guys weren't wanted and that the course was not designed with men in mind AT ALL. My license also says registered nurse strangely enough and I go out of my way to preserve the modesty of all my patients, both male and female. I think that discrimination against men is now much more prevalent in society and that it is made worse in that we men, nurses in particular, can't get the slightest ounce of either media or government attention for our plight. Better to be discriminated against and have hundreds if not thousands of government agencies on your side and an open line to the media! Great post once again, Jason RN

This is NOT a problem with male nurses most likely, but rather a problem with public perception of males in nursing. I doubt very much that it is the case that your male colleagues are 'trying' to offload their work onto you, as much as it is likely that the female patients specifically requested a female nurse. It's discrimination that men face, that women do not and could not ever hope to understand. A male nurse walks in to care for a patient, and the patient is quite okay with him looking after her, until of course, lo and behold, she discovers that he's NOT a doctor! (shudder). When this occurs, suddenly the male nurse is no longer fit to render care. Yet, when a female nurse, or doctor renders care, she rarely finds the same opposition. Again, it is discrimination, and our society is rife with it. Women receive the benefit of quotas to enter fields ranging from policing to engineering to medicine and yet no such quotas exist to get more men into female dominated professions like banking and nursing. Even when, as in the case of medicine, there are a disproportionate number of females being enrolled in medical school, (as is the case across the country here in Canada and in Britain - where it's 60%+ female enrolment) there is no effort to rescind the quotas or to create quotas in the reverse. In short, it sucks to be a man in today's society! Admittedly, most female patients I have encountered, do not have a problem with me administering their care, but a small number do. I try to assist in other ways when this occurs, and like many male nurses, do a lot of the heavy lifting to compensate. If your male colleagues are asking you to look after a patient's personal care, ask if this was the patient's request - 9 times out of 10 it was. If that is the case, have your colleague give out some of your meds, or assist patients with ambulation etc. while you're busy; I'm sure they'll be only too happy to help. Jason RN

I agree with the posters who say: practice, practice, practice, BUT, that is not to say that the classroom has nothing to offer. Putting in IV's is a complicated process, where plenty can go wrong. It is best to get the basic mechanics and idea down in a classroom, before you go hunting for veins. Here's another tip that might help in starting ivs. Have you ever noticed that when you apply pressure to that juicy vein, that you lose all sight of it? Try marking the vein with the needle tip, by just knicking the surface of the skin before you pull it taut. (Do not draw blood here - i'm talking about a surface knick only - this should drag up a little bit of skin marking your position). Then, when you do apply pressure, you'll see the tiny mark you made and know where the vein is. I like what you said about it not being a race - this is where a number of beginners go wrong - they see the flash back, get all excited, and forget to advance, advance at too sharp an angle, or too far. Since i've only fairly recently caught on to the whole iv thing, I can tell you newbies out there that this tip is gold. A higher power might help too, though you'd have to have established lines of communication. :)

What you say is incredibly true. It is so true that it is the absolute, unadulterated truth. Now women may say that they want the kind, sensitive type, but what I see them dating are men with tatoos up both arms and a gangsta rapper look that would put Eminem to shame. Of course who's to say these men aren't sensitive as they nudge everone, oh so delicately, out of their paths and onto the pavement, but I do have some doubts. Telling a girl that you're a nurse is basically like telling them, "goodbye, have a nice life", you know, that sort of thing. Nevermind the fact that nurses, yes even male ones, make upwards of $25.00/hr and that the men that these women have been dating are stuck somewhere between minimum wage and skid row. If they have an attitude, then they've got themselves a girl. Now you, as a nurse, would probably treat your woman like gold, be sympathetic to her needs, and responsive to her concerns. The guy with the tatoos, chains and baggy pants - he'll probably beat on her, cheat on her, and rob her blind. The important thing to note though, is that women do this to themselves all the time. So, don't feel bad. I have married women, and women in their sixties come up to me all the time and tell me how good-looking I am, EVEN WHILE WEARING MY NURSING SCRUBS! So, I figure that when I'm older, these women who by that time will have divorced, had three kids, and lost most of their lower teeth, (not necessarily in that order),will be looking for a man just like me! You see mature women know a good thing when they see it, and wouldn't snub their nose at you for being a nurse. Now, I don't know about you, but I've got to practice up on my shuffle board and lawn bowling, so that I'll be ready when the rush hits. :lol_hitti

You're absolutely right of course and I'm getting better at starting IVs now. HOWEVER, (and notice that 'however' is capitalized), I feel the CNO and other nursing bodies, which do not INSIST on the inclusion of this skill teaching at colleges and universities, are GROSSLY negligent in their duties as nursing bodies. Medicine teaches IV starts and so does paramedicine - why nursing is so afraid of things medical when it is right in the thick of it all is beyond me. Well, that off my chest, I believe I promised to give some tips if and when I got a clue, so here goes. First, and this is absolutely important, you must be firmly planted and comfortable before you start. You may not think this is such an important step, but I cannot emphasize enough the importance - how do you think you'll hit a vein through stacks of tissue with a tiny needle, when you're jumping around as much as the patient is? The standard tips are good of course - dangle the arm and apply heat - this will help you to visualize. I recommend the kind of lighting that hospitals don't provide - open a window curtain, turn on the overbed lights, hell even bring your own light. (Rocket Science has nothing on the subtleties of IV starts). Relax yourself and your patient as much as possible with some banter; I always like to point out that three strikes and I'm out and I'll get someone better - this often calms patients who have heard horror stories of 6 or more pricks. I also point out the similarity to needles and most patients are able to cope with the thought of those at least. First get all your supplies ready - tear off tape and apply it to the overbed table, open up your tegaderm or opsite or other brand name item, and leave it face up on the bed. Place the IV line as close to the patient's arm as possible. To keep it from moving, place a piece of tape over the line. Uncap the end of the line and stick it in something sterile - like the dressing package you just opened - now it's ready to go when you get the IV. Always free the needle of the canula to be sure that it will advance into the vein when you need it to - rotate the canula back and forth a few times and use this moment to calm your nerves as well. If you rotate the cannula rythmically, you may be able to employ self hypnosis to some effect. :) Apply the tourniquet - apply it less tightly if the veins were popping out at you to start with, more tightly if you think you may need ultrasound to find them - check circulation though, you don't want to make it too tight! Approach as you would an airplane to a runway - keep your bevel up and come down at a low pitch - not a giant arc. (15 to 30 degrees is recommended, but I recommend you start at an even lower angle of approach - you can always dive as you work your way up the vein, but if you dive first, pulling up won't be an option). Anchor that vein! I mean hold the vein with one hand and try to flick it with the finger of the oposite hand. If the vein rolls back and forth, either anchor it more or keep looking. In fact, intentionally feeling veins and attempting to roll them before you get started, will give you a much better idea of where to start. Tapping the veins helps, but you could just rub them vigorously with an alcohol pad. Now, make your approach. If you don't get blood return, try angling slightly upward as you move your way up the vein. If you're at a high angle and aren't getting any blood, consider you may have missed or the vein rolled. Not a problem - often times you can leave the needle sit there under the skin and try to see whether or not you're in line. If you're off, readjust - if it's still under the skin, and there's no blood, and you haven't pulled it out, you're still on your first attempt! When you see blood flash back, advance the needle almost flush with the skin, just a touch and then move the cannula in as you move the needle back - remove tourniquet. Connect your IV tubing to the site and release the clamp that you ingeniously placed at the connecting end of the tubing close by. Dripping confirms insertion, so when you see it, take the clear dressing and place it over the insertion site to secure it. Phew! I hate doing IVs and probably always will. The thing is though, I'm getting much better at it and so will you. If our nursing education had not become so anti-medical, then perhaps we would feel less stress about these procedures now, but what can you do? I wrote letters to the CNO and was completely ignored.. ditto for the educational institutions. Anyway, I recommend people take a course if that is still an option for them, in IV starts. You'll just feel a lot better about it than I did starting out. Don't be afraid to try - if you fail a couple of times, call it quits, but don't be afraid to try. I hope if you're a newbie reading this, that you might gain some insight into the subtle art of starting IVs from this long diatribe. I certainly know how frustrating it can be for both nurse and patient. Remember - you are an airplane coming in for a landing (just don't get carried away with the propeller noises like I sometimes do.)

Wow, you really are sick :) Are you single perchance? LOL. Anyway, I will maybe give that red meat idea a try, although explaining what I need to the butcher may cause some hard looks. I sometimes just feel that more practice isn't really going to help me unless I have someone explaining what I'm doing wrong while I'm screwing it up. Since I'm never successful at getting an IV, I really don't feel that I'm learning anything, and of course it's extremely frustrating, for both my patient and myself. More often when someone needs an IV, I try to hide in a corner somewhere, which is admittedly quite difficult when you're a male nurse of 6'2 in height. I'm hoping to find a course in IV therapy initiation here in Ontario, but finding one has not been easy - such courses/workshops seem to be on a province-wide "discontinue" list. This of course just adds to the frustration, because I was never taught IV therapy as part of my Nursing Degree. I'm pretty sure that I'm not an idiot and that if I did have a coach at my side while doing IVs, that I would pick it up much more quickly.

Hmm... well I'm desperate enough to go stateside if necessary - maybe turn it into a mini holiday. Could you tell me when the courses run, how long they are, and whether or not you get any hands on training with victims, err ah patients. :)

I transferred my LPN to RPN from Alberta to Ontario years ago. Basically what they wanted was a record of hours worked in the capacity of LPN (RPN in your case) in your home province. They may need to verify these hours with past employers. If you meet the minimum, they'll likely issue you the license here. You may be asked to do upgrading or refresher courses if your hour count is low. For me, it was a HUGE hassle, as I had to contact previous employers and get the hours worked info verified. It literally took months to accomplish this, but the problem may be less for you, depending on how many hours you were working, and how many employers were involved.

It's the same thing here in Ontario (Canada) and I would expect increasingly so around the world. Nursing is turning away from skill focused abilities and medical knowledge as a whole. It is extremely unfortunate that nursing appears to be moving in such a disasterous direction, but there you have it. I received no IV training whatsoever in my BScN program, and having graduated, am expected to do them at my place of employment - the trouble is, I've never had to do anything more difficult in my life! I just don't get it at all, and I really wish I had had some training as part of my degree program. Looking around now, I am unable to find ANY programs in my area that still teach IV therapy - these programs are all being discontinued province wide. I wish you luck in finding a program, and highly reccommend you take one prior to being "thrown to the wolves" - if you can find one. I may have to take a week off and go stateside in order to pick up such training.

I've been having a great deal of difficulty with IV starts, but to make matters worse, every college and university, across Ontario, seems to be shutting down its IV therapy programs! If this keeps up, doctors and paramedics will be the only ones still receiving IV training! Egads! If anyone out there knows of any IV therapy courses for RNs which are still running here in Ontario, please let me know. As yet, I have found only one in the entire province - Fanshawe College in London, which isn't offering their course until sometime in May. Any help would be appreciated.

ok i will get a talking to about this but, if your single, there are so many horny girls you will be working with. a good thing i think.:) will not say anymore about this but could say a whole lot more. lots and lots more;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I agreed with you on everything up to this point. No, if you're single, I would strongly suggest you avoid nursing like the plague. I found going through 4 years of a BSN program as a single male to be sheer torment - you'll hear about the boyfriends, the fiances, and the husbands and kids. If you didn't feel bad enough about being single, I assure you, it can get worse. Working in the field as a single male is also problematic. First of all, how many attractive nurses do you know who are actually single? None, or a number reasonably close to none? Exactly. So being single in the field may just help drive home that lonely feeling. Worse, you'll hear how terrible their boyfriend, husband, fiance is on a daily basis, along with the usual "all men are scum" routine. Since you're single, male and a nurse, you will of course be assumed to be gay. This is especially annoying if you're single and looking - having a hard time finding someone in this crazy world of ours, and you're told - you're gay on a daily basis. As bad as being single is, the bottom line message is - it can be a lot worse for you if you're a male in nursing. Nuff said. Oh, and don't go into nursing thinking you're going to find your dream girl and your nurse fetish both. I went on 2 dates during the 4 years and neither was with a girl from the nursing program. They all started right out of highschool (were painfully young) and were all engaged before they graduated. So please, if you're single, give it some serious thought. It might be more painful, and less pleasurable than you imagine. Your feelings of loneliness may only be intensified by the experience. If you're single, and you're quite okay with that then that's fine. Just don't go in thinking, like this last poster seems to be suggesting, that you're entering some kind of candy store. The reality is the candy is all overpriced and locked up behind glass. Get into it because you want to help people, and only do so if you're a strong person. As a single heterosexual male in nursing, it can be a rough ride indeed let me tell you. Much better to have someone in your life before you go in.

Thanks! You've all been very supportive... almost nurse-like :). I still don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I just have to keep at it I guess. The deep breath thing is a good idea. I think I probably subconsciously hold my breath while making the attempt. I really don't get the sense that it's a straightforward skill though, if it was, you wouldn't find 10 people each with their own style of doing it and, you could follow a step by step process that either always worked or worked at least most of the time - so no, I don't see IVs as being straightforward. Nonetheless, I just have to keep trying. Sometimes I get flashback and screw it up - too far? Other times I must miss completely - no flashback. I do find it distressing though, and it's difficult to remain confident after 3 or 4 failures in a row and just keep going. I feel bad for the patient and I feel like an idiot who should have studied harder - when in fact, if I studied the process any more, I'd need bifocal lenses. So it's not a good feeling. It should really be a part of the basic nursing program in my view. Anyway, when I do figure it out, I'll post all the specifics I can for the other poor sods out there who were thrown to the wolves with IVs and try to identify as much as possible, what I was doing wrong, so that someone else can have a better time of it than I've had.:roll