Ummmmmm

Y'all can't have it both ways. Either your "extra training" makes you better than AAs, but you have to concede therefore, that MDs extra training makes them more capable than you. And thus, you must concede your right to practice independently is merely a political power grab by the AANA, not due to equivalency. OR, your nursing degree don't mean that much and AAs and CRNAs learn what they need to know about anesthesia IN ANESTHESIA (not nursing) school, and then you can talk about equivalency with MDs. But you can't have it both ways. .....and you'd still be wrong about equivalence with MDs, cause their training FAR exceeds yours. (here's where you count years in nursing school as equivalent with medical school...LOL), We've all met crappy anesthesiologists that you can talk about anecdotally, but the mean MD is miles ahead of most CRNAs. And I've met some CRNAs who couldn't find their way out of a paper bag, but anecdotes are just that, anecdotal. Yeah, if someone is at the pinnacle of nursing, doing ICU work for 20 years before anesthesia school, yeah, that's worth something. But be honest with yourself, that ain't the majority of CRNAs, not by a long shot.

So the MAJORITY of CRNAs practice independently and not in the care team huh? That's interesting, considering CRNAs are only able to practice independently in 1/3 of the states in the US. Hmmmmmmm..... Its just shocking that y'all claim such superiority above AAs and yet claim equivalence to MDs/DOs, when whatever gap in training you think there is between CRNAs and AAs is so minute compared to the gap between CRNAs and MDs. Yet you so emphasize the small gap, and trivialize the giant one.

It's the same thing as PAs and NPs... If a huge political lobby acquires some practice rights for you, that doesn't change any reality in your intelligence or abilities. You honestly think a bachelors in nursing somehow enables this ability to independent practice down the road?......HONESTLY? 'Cause that's the only difference in training. And I LOVE the RNs I work with, but nothing about their training promotes independent medical decision making. Sorry.

Yawn. The VAST majority of stuff learned in nursing school ain't got a whole lot to do with anesthesia. Just sayin'... Why do the majority of y'all hold the same role that we do across the country, for the same pay, same benefits, schedules, responsibilities, liabilities, etc??? Must be demeaning for you to be treated the same as us sub-par providers.

Oh lighten up. The bedpan thing was just a jab, sheesh. Kind of akin to talking about AAs as "down the food chain" from CRNAs. I'm very confident in my role and abilities. As is my chair of anesthesia who, for some silly reason, pays me the same as my CRNA colleagues, despite me being down the food chain from them. Did you read my very detailed and fact filled comment to the person who hadn't ever heard of AAs? Or my statement about how I like and appreciate MOST of the CRNAs I've ever met?

Also, even though arguments online tend to get kind of feisty, I have no problem with most CRNAs. I work with a bunch of em, as our group is about 50/50 AA/CRNA. Most of them are very friendly and well trained, and would say the same about AAs. Its just the militant murses turned CRNAs who wanna pretend that they're doctors, and try and deceive the public into believing that AAs merely hand the docs drugs or something that chaps my hide. Here's lookin' at you Mike ?

So....if you're truly wanting facts on these two professions, you're not in the right place. Unless you want to be indoctrinated by the CRNAs here into believing that AAs are mere assistants and that CRNAs are somehow anesthesiologists in disguise. The brass tacks are this. Undergrad AA - 4 years undergrad which are very heavy in science, most ARE in fact pre-med students that decide not to take that route. CRNAs - 4 year BSN, less heavy in true science and more heavy in in nursing theory, etc. Look anywhere you want to verify, but nursing classes are not as rigorous as pre-med science courses. That's just a fact. Applying to school AA - You can go right into AA school after undergrad, but many work as EMTs, RTs, NURSES (shocking, I know), or other various healthcare fields prior to their masters. Fun fact - One of my good friends is an RN turned AA. AAs are required to take the MCAT or GRE, depending on the program. CRNA - You are required to do one year of critical care nursing for CRNA school, and many nurses apply to school prior to completion of that year. GRE for application, no MCAT *The fact that CRNAs all do work for at least a year as an RN gives them a head start on drug names, basic mechanisms of action, and just how to function in the hospital. That's undeniable. But after a short adjustment period for AAs (read ~6 months into clinicals), that's really not a big deal in practicality. AA/CRNA Degrees AAs have always required a master's degree since the inception of the field in the 60s. CRNAs were originally a certificate degree, then just a bachelors. In 1998 they started requiring a MS degree, so there are many CRNAs today that have much less formal training than current AAs. And come 2025 CRNAs are inflating their degree requirement to a doctorate degree to try and give themselves more clout against the MDs in the public eye. In my opinion it a joke of a "doctorate" as its minimal more schooling and not any additional clinical training. Most of it can be done online! LOL This is from http://www.all-crna-schools.com/why-you-should-get-your-dnp-now/ "Most Master degree programs are 28 to 30 months in length; in reality, you will only spend 6-8 more months in college to achieve the DNP" and... "Many DNP programs offer the first year online and allow full-time employment as a nurse during this year. Schools recognize that 36 months of full-time study is a long commitment, and are trying to make the first year a transition that will allow students to continue working so they can have more savings and an easier time the last two years. This means that while you may have to balance work and school for a while, you will only be out of work two years as opposed to three." So yeah, don't believe the false equivalence when they start spouting, "Well CRNAs and Anesthesiologists are both doctors and AAs only have a masters degree!" Practice As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are areas of the country where the AANA has lobbied for independent practice, mostly in rural areas, but that's not the norm. The majority of CRNAs practice in the care team model, just like AAs do. In the same practice, AAs and CRNAs usually have the exact same responsibility, the same pay, the same everything. That's just reality. To summarize, if you have a nursing background, go CRNA for sure. You can practice in all 50 states, while AAs are only in 30ish states. That will eventually become all 50, but why limit yourself if you dont have to. If you already have bachelors degree with all the required science classes, go AA. It'd be a waste of time to go get a 2 year bachelors and work for a year in the ICU just to apply to CRNA school. Both schools turn out quality providers. However, I will say that there is much more consistency with the quality of AAs that are put out due to the limited number of schools. I think its less than 15 programs, whereas there are 100+ CRNA schools. Big difference between an army trained CRNA and some pop up CRNA school degree mill. Just saying. Hope that's helpful.

I think y'all must be trained on this phrase during CRNA school. Do you recite it like the pledge each day in class? I've heard a bunch of you say it, and have never heard a shred of evidence as to what you actually think it means in practicality. AAs have a heavier science background than CRNAs in undergrad.....check for the AAs. We both get master's degrees in anesthesia....check for both AAs and CRNAs. However, AAs, have higher requirements as far as case numbers and clinical hours during our masters degrees, so maybe another check for AAs. Sooooooo, where exactly are you learning independence vs AAs subordinance??? Must be during that one year as an RN adjusting pumps and changing bedpans...

Ummm, you DO realize that there are CRNAs with only an associates degree in nursing and no master's of anesthesia right? That for the first 40 something years of CRNAs existence you didn't even need a master's degree right? Thats anyone before 1998 for those unaware.... And that AAs have ALWAYS required a pre-med undergrad degree AND a master's degree? That a pre-med undergrad degree is WAY more heavy in basic sciences and physiology than a nursing degree, right? And just because your massive political lobby has snatched you up some additional practice rights in select areas, that it doesn't make your training any more substantial than it really is right? Even though you think you're 'higher up the food chain'.....You do know all this, yeah? Just wondering....