New to TPAPN

Listen carefully. I am not going to tell you what to say or do. I am going to tell you what I......ME.......would do in your situation.

Let's look at facts. 

1. You are in TPAPN. You are enrolled. TPAPN has you in voluntary self enrollment status right now. You are going to have to complete their program, but there's a catch. It could get harder if the Texas BON puts you under consent order, and it could get easier and you be out of TPAPN earlier depending on what you have already said or admitted.

2. Me.....I.........Me.....would not admit to any diversion or substances pulled from Pyxis. (YOU do you). I am not even asking you if you did or did not do it. I am telling you what I would do. Why? They have zero proof. Zero. You didn't admit anything to work and you didn't fell a drug test. The BON has no evidence.

3. Important point here!! When you entered TPAPN, whether you remembered or not, you signed a form giving them the ability to see your medical records. That means......if you have disclosed to a therapist or counselor that you did illegal pulls/diverted from the Pyxis, they got you. The proof just became all they needed and yes, the form you signed with TPAPN allows the BON to see medical records if investigations are opened. 

4. The BON will investigate the Pyxis pulls and do interviews with your supervisor to see if any complaints were made by other nurses to where you seemed impaired. The BON investigator will ask if you admitted to anything. The BON will send you for a substance abuse eval IF....the TPAPN has not automatically already required it (if you have not already completed it.) If they have not required it of you yet, the BON will mandate it.

5. Yes, I would get an attorney...maybe. Me personally, I would. You do you. I would get an attorney if....IF......IF....I have not admitted to anyone (work, counselor, therapist, doctor, TPAPN) that I pulled narcs illegally/diverted. If I have admitted to one of the above that I diverted, then I would not get an attorney, and I would go through the process because they have all the evidence they need and a lawyer will not get me out of it. 

5. Why does all of the above matter? You are meeting TPAPN requirements now which isn't that tough. You check in daily, you do your drug test if selected, you do the recovery meetings if mandated and turn that in monthly. Not that big of a deal. Now......if the BON finds that you have an SUD, you become BON mandated to TPAPN. That means, you do the things you are doing now, but you also face BON requirements such as a possible 3 month license suspension, possible mandated rehab for 6 weeks, public discipline, likely narcotics restrictions for 6 months, mandated quarterly reports by your employer for the next 5 years. See how this spirals quickly? Hard to get a job. A complete life changer.

6. If you have no failed drug tests. If you haven't admitted to diversion to anyone, the BON has no proof. Narc pulls from the Pyxis is Not enough alone for the BON to have you on the hook. They need admission or positive drug test or multiple people saying you were impaired at work. This is where the lawyer matters. The BON will request you do an SUD eval. Your lawyer will agree to it. At the eval, if its Me...(you do you) if its me.......I don't admit to anything EVER. I don't drink alcohol....ever.  I admit to never being intoxicated in my life. I admit to 4 drinks of alcohol in my entire lifetime. I admit to never ever using an illegal substance or diversion. I admit to Delta 8 because I already admitted to it. Be careful with alcohol. Nurses don't know the threshold for diagnosing alcohol use disorder. It's alarmingly low. 3 drinks per week will qualify. Being drunk 1 time in your life qualifies. Its that low. I admit to 4 drinks of alcohol in my lifetime and never intoxicated and that I have never used Weed one time in my life. Not once. Again, you do you.

7. After the SUD eval shows negative, your lawyer gets the results and the BON let's you off the hook for mandated consent order and BON involved TPAPN. The BON might reprimand you or give you a warning letter for Pyxis pulls, but that's it. The lawyer could play great dividends here. 

Remember this.......Major major difference in all of the above if you have admitted diversion to Any Human Being in TPAPN, a therapist, a counselor, a coworker, your employer, etc. That will be found out because its on paper and BONs can get it during the investigation. Regardless of what you think you know about HIPPA, HIPPA is out the window when it comes to legal investigations that relate to public safety. If you have not admitted diversion to anyone during this process and you have no failed drug tests and you remember the alcohol questions when you do the SUD eval, and you get a lawyer, you will win.

Finally, the SUD eval that shows negative and having a lawyer and no failed drug tests might get you out of TPAPN, or may get you out of TPAPN earlier. The wildcard with all of this that you did not share is...............you did not share whether you admitted Diversion to anyone in TPAPN or a therapist or counselor or what you wrote on your TPAPN intake forms regarding your admission to how much alcohol, weed in the past, how much in the past, weed in the past, etc. Those things matter and the SUD evaluator will be able to see it. Your lawyer will also want to see it. You would be amazed how many nurses get off the hook for diversion of narcs, but end up 5 years on the hook for alcohol use disorders or THC simply due to what they wrote on their intake forms for TPAPN or any other monitoring program in America.

Again, I would get a lawyer. But, if I admitted diversion to anyone mentioned above, I (me personally) would NOT get a lawyer. I would go through the process and not fight it because they got you. If no admission yet and no failed drug tests, you will win with a lawyer. One question an SUD evaluator loves to ask?  "If you don't use illegal substances or have an SUD, then why did you voluntarily enter TPAPN?" My answer would be..."Because of Fear, I was scared."  I would say, " I have nurse friends who have told me horror stories about the BON and that I should enter TPAPN even though I don't use alcohol or drugs." Your attorney might also ask you the same question.

Best wishes. I am telling you what I would do and say. I am NOT telling you what to say. You do You. One final thing. That counselor you have? The one you like and seems to be your buddy and who "truly understands you." The one who mentioned "all of this is confidential." Well, it's confidential until you signed a form with TPAPN that gives them permission to attain these records and if TPAPN has those records, the BON investigator can get them also, because a legal investigation that the BON claims is for "public safety" trumps HIPPA. And...whether you remember it or not, you have overwhelmingly likely signed a form giving TPAPN access to your medical records when you entered TPAPN. So, think long and hard about what you have disclosed to your counselor before you answer the questions to the BON investigator and SUD evaluator.

Get an attorney. If you haven't admitted diversion, get an attorney and let your attorney respond to the BON investigator.

Regalnurse said:

Listen carefully. I am not going to tell you what to say or do. I am going to tell you what I......ME.......would do in your situation.

Let's look at facts. 

1. You are in TPAPN. You are enrolled. TPAPN has you in voluntary self enrollment status right now. You are going to have to complete their program, but there's a catch. It could get harder if the Texas BON puts you under consent order, and it could get easier and you be out of TPAPN earlier depending on what you have already said or admitted.

2. Me.....I.........Me.....would not admit to any diversion or substances pulled from Pyxis. (YOU do you). I am not even asking you if you did or did not do it. I am telling you what I would do. Why? They have zero proof. Zero. You didn't admit anything to work and you didn't fell a drug test. The BON has no evidence.

3. Important point here!! When you entered TPAPN, whether you remembered or not, you signed a form giving them the ability to see your medical records. That means......if you have disclosed to a therapist or counselor that you did illegal pulls/diverted from the Pyxis, they got you. The proof just became all they needed and yes, the form you signed with TPAPN allows the BON to see medical records if investigations are opened. 

4. The BON will investigate the Pyxis pulls and do interviews with your supervisor to see if any complaints were made by other nurses to where you seemed impaired. The BON investigator will ask if you admitted to anything. The BON will send you for a substance abuse eval IF....the TPAPN has not automatically already required it (if you have not already completed it.) If they have not required it of you yet, the BON will mandate it.

5. Yes, I would get an attorney...maybe. Me personally, I would. You do you. I would get an attorney if....IF......IF....I have not admitted to anyone (work, counselor, therapist, doctor, TPAPN) that I pulled narcs illegally/diverted. If I have admitted to one of the above that I diverted, then I would not get an attorney, and I would go through the process because they have all the evidence they need and a lawyer will not get me out of it. 

5. Why does all of the above matter? You are meeting TPAPN requirements now which isn't that tough. You check in daily, you do your drug test if selected, you do the recovery meetings if mandated and turn that in monthly. Not that big of a deal. Now......if the BON finds that you have an SUD, you become BON mandated to TPAPN. That means, you do the things you are doing now, but you also face BON requirements such as a possible 3 month license suspension, possible mandated rehab for 6 weeks, public discipline, likely narcotics restrictions for 6 months, mandated quarterly reports by your employer for the next 5 years. See how this spirals quickly? Hard to get a job. A complete life changer.

6. If you have no failed drug tests. If you haven't admitted to diversion to anyone, the BON has no proof. Narc pulls from the Pyxis is Not enough alone for the BON to have you on the hook. They need admission or positive drug test or multiple people saying you were impaired at work. This is where the lawyer matters. The BON will request you do an SUD eval. Your lawyer will agree to it. At the eval, if its Me...(you do you) if its me.......I don't admit to anything EVER. I don't drink alcohol....ever.  I admit to never being intoxicated in my life. I admit to 4 drinks of alcohol in my entire lifetime. I admit to never ever using an illegal substance or diversion. I admit to Delta 8 because I already admitted to it. Be careful with alcohol. Nurses don't know the threshold for diagnosing alcohol use disorder. It's alarmingly low. 3 drinks per week will qualify. Being drunk 1 time in your life qualifies. Its that low. I admit to 4 drinks of alcohol in my lifetime and never intoxicated and that I have never used Weed one time in my life. Not once. Again, you do you.

7. After the SUD eval shows negative, your lawyer gets the results and the BON let's you off the hook for mandated consent order and BON involved TPAPN. The BON might reprimand you or give you a warning letter for Pyxis pulls, but that's it. The lawyer could play great dividends here. 

Remember this.......Major major difference in all of the above if you have admitted diversion to Any Human Being in TPAPN, a therapist, a counselor, a coworker, your employer, etc. That will be found out because its on paper and BONs can get it during the investigation. Regardless of what you think you know about HIPPA, HIPPA is out the window when it comes to legal investigations that relate to public safety. If you have not admitted diversion to anyone during this process and you have no failed drug tests and you remember the alcohol questions when you do the SUD eval, and you get a lawyer, you will win.

Finally, the SUD eval that shows negative and having a lawyer and no failed drug tests might get you out of TPAPN, or may get you out of TPAPN earlier. The wildcard with all of this that you did not share is...............you did not share whether you admitted Diversion to anyone in TPAPN or a therapist or counselor or what you wrote on your TPAPN intake forms regarding your admission to how much alcohol, weed in the past, how much in the past, weed in the past, etc. Those things matter and the SUD evaluator will be able to see it. Your lawyer will also want to see it. You would be amazed how many nurses get off the hook for diversion of narcs, but end up 5 years on the hook for alcohol use disorders or THC simply due to what they wrote on their intake forms for TPAPN or any other monitoring program in America.

Again, I would get a lawyer. But, if I admitted diversion to anyone mentioned above, I (me personally) would NOT get a lawyer. I would go through the process and not fight it because they got you. If no admission yet and no failed drug tests, you will win with a lawyer. One question an SUD evaluator loves to ask?  "If you don't use illegal substances or have an SUD, then why did you voluntarily enter TPAPN?" My answer would be..."Because of Fear, I was scared."  I would say, " I have nurse friends who have told me horror stories about the BON and that I should enter TPAPN even though I don't use alcohol or drugs." Your attorney might also ask you the same question.

Best wishes. I am telling you what I would do and say. I am NOT telling you what to say. You do You.

First off, thank you for so much information and thank you for spending the time to reply as much as you did. I really really appreciate that. I did not divert, so I denied that in my evaluation. I've never had a drinking problem, but I can't remember exactly the amount of drinks I had said in that evaluation. The end result was that I was ordered to monthly therapy sessions, no narc pass for six months, mandatory drug tests, able to continue working, and then all the other rules for TPAPN. Experimented with drugs when I was a teenager, but that was it. I had kids and quit. And I know my coworkers would attest to me never being impaired.

It's scary because I never thought in 1 million years that something like this would happen to me. All of this happened 2.5 months ago and I just got the BON notice today. Also makes me wonder if the place I worked would press criminal charges. I would imagine if they were going to. It would've been done by now and I also imagine that they would need to have proof to present for that to happen. 
 

Thank you again for your comment. All of this is new and I've read as much as I can, but it's nice to be able to get some viewpoints on it. It's all just terrifying.

Get an attorney. You didn't divert. Fight it. What evaluation are you talking about? Also, I would withdrawal from TPAPN if you didn't divert and Im assuming you the stipulations placed on you were by TPAPN and not the board? If you didn't divert, why on earth did you enter TPAPN? WHO put you on 6 minth narc restriction? Of the BON just started the investigation, then WHO put you on 6 month narc restriction? You have no business being in TPAPN if you didn't divert. Get a lawyer. 

Regalnurse said:

Get an attorney. You didn't divert. Fight it. What evaluation are you talking about? Also, I would withdrawal from TPAPN if you didn't divert and Im assuming you the stipulations placed on you were by TPAPN and not the board? If you didn't divert, why on earth did you enter TPAPN? WHO put you on 6 minth narc restriction? Of the BON just started the investigation, then WHO put you on 6 month narc restriction? You have no business being in TPAPN if you didn't divert. Get a lawyer. 

Thank you for your response. The evaluation was for the TPAPN entry. I was told by HR to self report to TPAPN or they would report me to the board since I walked out and didn't do a UA. The narc restriction is based off the accusations of diverting. I admitted to Delta 8 for sleeping and knew it would pop positive.

DFW RN 11 said:

Thank you for your response. The evaluation was for the TPAPN entry. I was told by HR to self report to TPAPN or they would report me to the board since I walked out and didn't do a UA. The narc restriction is based off the accusations of diverting. I admitted to Delta 8 for sleeping and knew it would pop positive.

I would get a lawyer

Thank you. I have called a couple nurse lawyers.

You should have never got a narc restriction. You should have never received any restrictions from TPAPN other than the required check ins and meetings and peeing when selected. Fair warning.....if you signed a contract with TPAPN, you are overwhelmingly likely to be on the hook for the length of time you signed the contract, even if you voluntarily entered. A lawyer isn't going to get you out of that. If your TPAPN has some kind of clause that is open ended or something stating that when you are recovered, the process ends, then a lawyer can help once you get a negative (SUD eval shows no problems). Most monitoring contracts people sign are for a set amount of time and if you signed, they got you. It's legally binding.

Where the lawyer can help? The lawyer can keep the BON from making your situation public and not stay on your record for others to see when this is over. A negative SUD eval and no admission of diversion and no positive drug tests will allow the lawyer to seal the deal with the BON that your status in TPAPN remains a self or voluntarily enrollment and not BON referred. That means....your license will not be suspended and you will not receive public discipline. But, you are likely still on the hook for the amount of time you signed with TPAPN regardless of a negative SUD eval, a lawyer, no admission of guilt, no positive drug tests. 

A lawyer will take the BON side out of the equation and out of the picture. But, the TPAPN part of the equation is one you will have to complete (IF....IF.....you signed for a set amount of time and odds are....you did. Nearly everyone does). So, even though the TPAPN portion is rough, you have incredible Light At The End of the Tunnel because you will be able to rest assured that when TPAPN is over, there is nothing remaining with the BON on a public or future employers search that will haunt you or be found 5 or 10 or 15 years later. You will be 100 percent in the clear, but you will need the attorney for that.

Beat wishes and P.S. you got screwed. Another example of monitoring programs and corruption all related to Delta 8 and THC components of which THC should have been made legal 50 years ago in all states by the Federal Government. 

Thank you. Yeah at the time it felt like my only option. The only good thing to it is I have a great case manager. And that's pretty much what I was thinking, get a lawyer to respond to the board of nursing, but I would still be in TPAPN. I did sign a two year contract. It's all so frustrating and it happens so fast. I'm honestly pretty discouraged and thinking of leaving nursing all together. I'm trying to let me emotions settle before making any decisions.

A 2 year contract is a GIFT! Get the lawyer fast because the BON will require you to overwhelmingly likely do a substance abuse eval and they love to be tricky with those evals and if there is anything negative, the BON quickly changes your status with TPAPN to 5 years and Board Referred/Involuntary status. Remember the things I told you about alcohol questions during the substance abuse eval and remember, one slip with those answers could be the difference in 2 years versus 5 years. You did Delta 8. You do You. If I'm answering, I answer to using Delta 8 2 tims in my life and having 4 total drinks of alcohol in my life and never being intoxicated and never having more than 1 drink for each time I did drink. 

Thank you, I answered those questions already. My delta 8 was nightly for around 3 months. Never to get buzzed, only to sleep and that's the truth. So that's already been answered. I can't remember the alcohol answers. I do have a consult with an attorney at 2:30 today. 

Stick with the Delta 8 answers then. With alcohol? I would answer LOW. The sad part is that they get so many nurses who absolutely do not have an alcohol problem and are not alcoholics stuck with a SUD disorder because rhe threshold is laughable.

Thank you for that. I definitely don't have a problem with alcohol. Now that I am on TPAPN I can't even drink it. What a mess.