Management Dynamics

Be careful about recording . Many states require 2 party agreement. 

Emergent said:

How did that go?

Waiting to hear back. It hasn't been 48 hours yet, so I'm trying to be patient LOL. 

kjjones said:

Take your phone in your pocket and have the voice memo on before you walk in. 

It's actually illegal to record anything without everyone's knowledge. Recording without consent unfortunately would probably get me fired.

colleen69 said:

Be careful about recording . Many states require 2 party agreement. 

Correct, and PA is one of those states. 

Brewingbiker said:

And please, by all means, TAKE NOTES. I had a manger who did things like this at my last hospital, made our lives a nightmare. Unfortunately the HR at that facility was not very useful. Take notes. It works to keep your thoughts and memories straight, and helps keep (them) a bit more honest when they know you keep records. 

Yes!! I'm sorry you also experienced this. It adds so much unnecessary stress to an already stressful environment. All of the research I did regarding HR policies and  legal guidance instructed taking notes. There's no other way you can keep everything straight, and documentation is key.

Emergent said:

How did that go?

Still waiting to hear. 

I continue to be baffled by the irony of a meeting so shrouded in secrecy and attended by an EM doc, while I continue to precept new nurses and work my shifts. No mention otherwise of issues with my practice, performance, etc. Meanwhile, I logged on for said meeting virtually and neither my manager nor the doctor showed. When I reached out after waiting for over 20 minutes, my manager said that they'd canceled the meeting early that morning. Never bothered to tell me or cancel the meeting in Teams smh. 

They stood you up? These people sound so inconsiderate and unprofessional!

Summer1976 said:

I continue to be baffled by the irony of a meeting so shrouded in secrecy and attended by an EM doc, while I continue to precept new nurses and work my shifts. No mention otherwise of issues with my practice, performance, etc. Meanwhile, I logged on for said meeting virtually and neither my manager nor the doctor showed. When I reached out after waiting for over 20 minutes, my manager said that they'd canceled the meeting early that morning. Never bothered to tell me or cancel the meeting in Teams smh. 

I wonder if it was canceled BECAUSE you contacted HR. When I was working at that one dysfunctional hospital in New Hampshire, where I got in trouble for calling out sick while being a PRN nurse and covering someone's FMLA (which I had agreed to cover several weeks of at the last minute), my director originally arranged a meeting with herself, an HR rep, and some other manager to be held in a conference room. At the advice of a social worker I was friendly with, I contacted HR. Magically, the morning the meeting was to take place, the meeting turned into a one-on-one between me and the director in her office. 

I guess the morons you work with neglected to follow some HR procedure or other, so HR kiboshed the meeting. But they're morons, so they didn't bother to tell you. 

Emergent said:

They stood you up? These people sound so inconsiderate and unprofessional!

They did. If I hadn't reached out to my manager, neither of them would've said a word.

sideshowstarlet said:

I wonder if it was canceled BECAUSE you contacted HR. When I was working at that one dysfunctional hospital in New Hampshire, where I got in trouble for calling out sick while being a PRN nurse and covering someone's FMLA (which I had agreed to cover several weeks of at the last minute), my director originally arranged a meeting with herself, an HR rep, and some other manager to be held in a conference room. At the advice of a social worker I was friendly with, I contacted HR. Magically, the morning the meeting was to take place, the meeting turned into a one-on-one between me and the director in her office. 

I guess the morons you work with neglected to follow some HR procedure or other, so HR kiboshed the meeting. But they're morons, so they didn't bother to tell you. 

HA!
No, I didn't reach out to HR until AFTER they no-showed for the meeting. As if everything wasn't red-flaggy and unprofessional already. There was no apology. My manager texted later to reschedule the meeting for next week - again not acknowledging my request for context/topic so that I can prepare. I was so damn stressed that I got shingles (my manager was aware) but I still showed up for the meeting they didn't even have the courtesy to tell me they cancelled. 

What is a reasonable wait time to hear back from HR before you reach out a second time to follow up?

Summer1976 said:

HA!
No, I didn't reach out to HR until AFTER they no-showed for the meeting. As if everything wasn't red-flaggy and unprofessional already. There was no apology. My manager texted later to reschedule the meeting for next week - again not acknowledging my request for context/topic so that I can prepare. I was so damn stressed that I got shingles (my manager was aware) but I still showed up for the meeting they didn't even have the courtesy to tell me they cancelled. 

What is a reasonable wait time to hear back from HR before you reach out a second time to follow up?

I think a few days. Honestly, if you don't hear anything by Friday, maybe it's worth stopping by the HR office in person. It would at least give you some peace of mind going into the weekend. 

Geez. So the meeting is still happening.

I have a certain way of dealing with things, but this may not be feasible for everyone. I'll write what I'd do anyway, and maybe it will be somewhat helpful.

I'd be tempted to write an email to this manager, cc'ing the manager's boss and HR, noting the last-minute cancellation after scheduling a meeting for "clinical issues" without further explanation. Also make sure to work in that you were not notified of this cancellation and ended up waiting for twenty minutes logged onto Teams waiting for this meeting to start and were only told of the cancellation after you took the initiative to reach out. Be as petty and passive aggressive as your heart desires and frame this as ensuring that a similar miscommunication is avoided next week. For bonus points, you can add that you have continued to work and precept new nurses without anyone giving you any negative feedback on your clinical skills (if you have past positive performance reviews you can reference, so much the better). Try to sound concerned and mildly disappointed that the meeting was cancelled, as you would have welcomed the opportunity to learn about and correct any clinical issues, especially as you continue to work and precept new nurses. 

And I would also express in the email that you are concerned about attending a meeting run by two people who had to be reported for inappropriate behavior. State clearly that, unfortunately, given your experiences with this company, you are concerned about retaliation. It is important to cc the manager's higher-up (if there are any) and HR and that you specifically use the word retaliation. I don't see a point in tiptoeing around this issue. I mean, the manager already knows you were the one to make the previous complaints about him and the doctor to HR. 

Your manager, unfortunately, does not seem like the kind of person who cares about whether or not you got shingles. It is unclear what brought your manager into healthcare or into management and why he has remained in management, despite apparently needing HR to reprimand him for inappropriate behavior exhibited as a manager. Is your manager related to any higher-ups there? Or dating one? Or maybe related to the problematic doctor?  This may seem like fanfiction, but from what I see, any of these theories seem more likely than your manager actually  being good at their job. 

@sideshowstarlet THIS!!

Honestly, I wish I'd known someone like you back when I worked under my last manager at my old facility. It may have cut out a number of years of bullying (and that really is what this is) from an upper manager. 

I did not realize how over-stressed I was due to that person until I (finally) left. The sad part is, prior to that individual, I loved working there, and enjoyed working with my co-workers. I had some great experiences and learned a lot. But like the frog that is happily sitting in the pot of water, I never realized the temp started rising slowly until it was starting to boil.

I hate to see this happening to others, and hope the OP manages to get this under control -the damage to your health due to unwarranted stress is, well, not worth it.

Brewingbiker said:

@sideshowstarlet THIS!!

Honestly, I wish I'd known someone like you back when I worked under my last manager at my old facility. It may have cut out a number of years of bullying (and that really is what this is) from an upper manager. 

I wasn't born like this. I used to be nice when I started nursing. I'm in a second career now that I like way better and a job I love, but my previous experiences have pretty much made me the Patron Saint of Getting In Trouble at Work.  There is literally no healthcare-related workplace dysfunction that I have not experienced.

Nowadays, ChatGPT can help craft passive-aggressive emails if you find the act of writing about this nonsense making you angry all over again. 

No job is worth your health, especially not a job that would hire this clown show to manage things.