TheNextCRNA

Not a valid argument. You're comparing a narrow, limited field in medicine to the scope of the entire education system which is broad in curriculum. For that reason, I won't waste my time arguing

What, in any of my comments, made you suggest that?

And to further support my argument, there is a threshold to the amount of knowledge one can attain from anesthesia, after that you're just wasting your time. Do you think a resident who studied 16 years of anesthesia knows more than one who only studied 8? Probably not.

lol, real funny.. you're the only one who answered the question though,lol

If you say so.

Every one is entitled to their own opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if you had some good friends or close affiliations with MDAs. Since you argue CRNAs are safe, why are they even supervised? The health care system can't afford to have more MDAs, they are too much of a strain on the system.

Knowledge can be obtained faster and more accurately than before thanks to the internet. In addition, I highly doubt MDAs retained the information from 8 years prior when they first were admitted into med school. No amount of knowledge can justify a twofold increase in salary.

Thanks for the information. What state are you in? And so how long have you been in ICU and are you applying to crna programs soon? Why did you only apply to 2 hospitals? How long were your classmates techs before getting the ICU position? And what kind of tech are we talking here? How long will it take to get my ACLS, PALS, and BART? I'm willing to relocate anywhere, as long as I can get into the ICU with little to no experience. They train you on the job, right? I only want to spend a year in the ICU so that I can apply to NA programs. How much does the ICU spend on its nurses for orientation etc?

But we have no person to compare the CEO to, he is at the top all by himself, rightfully so. CRNAs and MDAs perform the same function, more or less. Not sure why you are defending MDAs so strongly.

I know some choose to practice independently without the ACT but why do others need to be supervised in the first place?

Skip, my point is not whether MDAs deserve high compensation. Of course they do. But if i'm supervising you to mow several thousand lawns, shouldn't we be getting paid equally? If the national annual income averages for the two professions was off by $50,000, I wouldn't be having this conversion, but it's not, it's off by $150,000. Compensation should correlate with contribution. The majority of MDAs aren't working twice as hard, it's just the doctor title that entitles them to more, supposedly.

You're right, lazy wasn't the best word to use. Rather I feel some are unworthy of such high compensations relative to their counterparts, that's all.

In what clinical setting, do you see MDAs administering the anesthesia, sitting alongside the patient monitoring him or her during the case? I've shadowed in 6 hospitals and 1 surgery center and not once have I seen an MDA doing the case in the OR, always the CRNA. Is Florida just wacky like that? Where must I go to see the MDA doing the case? Thanks

Can you explain to me how the residency works? So now you have to commit yourself to 4 years in surgical before going to ICU?

"If MDAs and CRNAs both made the same, what would be the incentive to hire CRNAs?" The MDA did two years of general book work, 2 years of really general and vague hospital rotations (1-2 months each) to see where he or she would fit (4 years wasted). At this point the ICU nurse has worked their butt off, providing care to the sickest patients, and getting real world experience. Why wouldn't there be an incentive to hire more crnas? They should be equally compensated for their equal contributions. The adage goes "use it or lose it". I rather have a crna put me to sleep than an MDA who hasn't touched a case in years. What's that in your avatar picture, a big shark chasing a boat? Yes, I've read studies that CRNAs provide the same quality of care as MDAs and I think most people agree on that. But the real question is how long will it be for something to be implemented; for action to be taken? How long will it be before the MDA party is put to a halt (your best prediction-5 years,10 years, 50 years from now)?

wtbcrna, if you had to do it all over again, would you? how many hours do you typically put in a week? Your level of job satisfaction on scale 1-10? What's the hardest part of your job? Favorite part of your job and least favorite part? If not in medicine, what would you likely be doing now?

Thanks wtbcrna, if you don't mind me asking, how many years did you spend in the ICU? Was it more or less stressful than being a CRNA? How did you transition from RN to RN-ICU? I'll admit it, I want the fastest path so I can practice anesthesia (I'm already 32 years old right now). Would you say it's next to impossible that after getting my BSN, I go straight into ICU, spend just 12 months in there, then get accepted into an NA program (the absolute bare minimum reqs)? Is it true that most NA schools want at least 3 years in the ICU? And is it true that ICUs dont hire new grads because it's too costly, and too many people just did their year and left. I just want to know what the current situation is before I invest a lot of time and money into pursuing this career. thanks

Jamisaurus, what position did you get and how did you do it? thanks

Hi Ozzy84, CCRN is just a certificate and it's not required for entrance into CRNA schools. Just wondering why you brought that up? thanks

Elkpark, not a contest but rather competition. Both put in the same amount of discipline and hard work (and I would argue the 3 years of ICU experience combined with 3 years of CRNA school is a lot tougher than just 4 years training for the MDA) You probably don't realize the tension between the two providers but I've witnessed it first hand. I saw a fresh new MDA telling an experienced CRNA what to do. "You better watch his blood pressure, MDA said. After she left, the crna told me it was her first year on the job and she was already bossing him around. The crna told me if she knew anything about his urine output, there would be no concern over his bp (or something to that effect). The point i'm making is would you like someone who works half as hard as you, to make twice as much as you? Who cares about the debt either one has (that's old news), what matters is their contribution in the NOW, the work output they do to help others NOW.

Hi calivianya, So you applied as a fresh new RN and got in directly as an ICU nurse? Or did you find a new grad ICU residency program in another area? thanks

Comprehensive comparison of lengths of education and training CRNA: 4 years for a BSN followed by 1-2+ years as a tele/medsurg followed by 2+ years in the ICU followed by 2.5+ years in the crna program. In Total: 12 years + Anesthesiologist: 4 years for BS degree, 4 years med school, 4 years residency. Total 12 years In-conclusion, it takes the same length of time if not longer for nurse anesthetists and yet "most" anesthesiologists earn twice as much (comparing avg salaries 150K vs 300K), are higher on the totem pole when making authoritative decisions (they supervise crnas and have more say in the hospital cases), and IRONICALLY the crna's are the workhorses while the MDAs are slacking. What gives?

Hi Lev, can you provide any websites or info on the new grad residency programs you speak of? Also, all of the RN-ICU positions I've looked at here in FL require 1-2 years of related experience and don't hire new grads. They are totally against it.

how old are you if you don't mind me asking? To clarify, I should have a good shot at an ICU tech position or an ICU nurse position as a new grad/new RN?

I've got some bad news, ICUman. All of the RN-ICU positions I see in Florida require a minimum 2 years experience. And was that friend of yours hired as an ICU tech? MINIMUM EXPERIENCE ü 2 years experience in Critical Care OR nurses with no Critical Care experience must have 2 years of acute care experience and successfully complete the ECCO Critical Care course Those with less than one year of specialty area experience in a hospital / acute care setting or New Grads will NOT be considered.