Papadoc

To the OP: If NP is really what you want, then just suck it up and finish te school. Any success is based on incovenience. I know it's easier said than done, and only you know you situation best. Education is very disorganized, and graduate education is even more so. What you have to do is to create your own system which will allow you to succeed. Also find someone who is already doing O'K in school. May be create a small study group, talk to your instructors (those who are approachable). Once you get a handle on the situation things should get better for you. Just look at so many who have already done it. The pain is temprorary ( I would hope), Best of Luck.

On SDN just scroll down to the "nontraditional" applicants forum, and read some of the stories. Don't listen to the "Nay" sayers. 30 is not even so much of nontrad anymore. Of course, with kids it does get complex, but...if you plan ahead, and have a good support system it's very doable. Also, I had my wife and dtr visiting me in the Carib, and I go back and forth a lot.There are plenty of students with families, and kids. It can be done. But make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Best of Luck

Yes, it's true that many docs are not happy campers these days. Especially the once in the primary care. But there are many specialties that allow for a great life style, and earning potential. It's a personal choice. And there is no one "right" approach. I know many women who have children, and even single moms in med school and residency. I've never heard them complain, at least not publicly, while many guys who went straight from high school to college to med school are whining. These days is what you call "true calling" that brings those who are not delusional to the medical profession. Those of us who understand what they've gotten themselves into are doing it not because, but despite what it may bring at the end. As for missery and overwork / underpay... I dare you to name one field in any walk of life where it isn't hold true. You've got to do what you like, and money will follow, IMHO.

http://www.studentdoctor.net AKA SDN if you want to apply for u.S MD/DO route. http://www.valuemd.com if you want to go IMG (Carib / European) route, which would be O'K for OB/GYN, IM, FP, psych For more competative specialties you need to stay in U.S schools Hope it helps Best of Luck

The schools which I refer to have listings of their graduates, and residency placements on their websites. Many alumni, who are now attendings, and big-time specialists, are available for questions. ROSS alone has over 5000 graduates practicing in U.S and Canada. Some are even in EU and Ausie Land. as for some ppl not making it through ....Yeah, you bet! I know some ppl who singed up at health club 15 years ago. Today they are just as fat, unhealthy and as misarable as they were back then, if not more. Should I then draw a conclusion that work outs and life style modifications don't work? It doesn't work for those who don't work it. Medical school is for sure...just not gonna work for ppl who'sgot more problems than the've got solutions, IMHO.

If you really wanted to go to a medical school then try D.O programs. They favor nontrad applicants a lot. Also don't dismiss Caribbean as an option. schools like SGU, ROSS, SABA, AUC whose graduates can practice in all 50 States will get you there. Schools that are coming along nicely, but no California approval yet (meaning you can't practice there) are MUA Nevis, St. Matthews, St.James. Check out http://www.valuemd.com for more info.

Hey FLAgal14! Congats on your decision. I have great respect and admiration for people who have this clear sence of direction in life. I'm one of those people who unfortunately don't have that quality. But in my case it's different. I've been helping ppl for the last almost 20 years (and even longer while in the nursing school). There are many students who married, and with kids in the medical school. I even know a few single moms. Wow. It takes guts to go through the madness of med school, and residency. But if nothing else will do...I'd say go for it. Many people enter mid-level careers with the thought of "practicing medicine", and having a shortcut. They often find out that their potential, for whatever reason, is not realized. and they still go on to the medical school. On the other hand, there are quite a few ppl who're done with med school and the residency, and realized that they've made a greatest mistake of thir lives. Many say I should've been NP/PA, but b/c of some major debt they have to stay "married" to the medicine. I'd say there is plenty of place under the sun for everybody, when what we do is based on cooperation vs competition with each other. Good Luck to you too.

It all really depends on your specialty. The R.O.A.D (Radiology and Rad/Onc, Ortho, Anesthesiology, and Derm) are doing quite well. $300 g is really running on thehigh side. the average med school debt is around $150K-180K including all the expences, not only tuition. There are many options for MD/DO as well with loan repayments, paid malpractce, and huge bonuses. It all depends on location. Things are drying up all across the board, and they are affecting all of us in the healthcare field. There is plenty of misery to go around for mid-levels too. Having said this...I honestly respect ppl's choices to go or not to go to the medical school, albeit if it is for the right reasons. Going to NP or the PA school is not a short cut for wanting to become a doctor. Sure you could do the same things, especially in IM and FP type of pactices. I've started med school at 34, had to stop for health problems , but am back now at 36. I'm an RN as well, and thought of FNP track long and hard. But I just couldn't ge "what if?" out of my head. With medical school there is no way to know for sure if it's right fit for you or not until you pretty much done with it and are in debt up to your ears. Thus, misery for many folks who found out that being a doctor these days is not that glamourous. After all it's just a job just like any other, but the responsibility is ennormous. Yet, if this is what you really, really want to do, not because, but rather despite everything that goes on in medicine, you will never be happy. I've met so many RNs, PAs, NPs, PTs, Chiros,, ppl from investment banking, IBM top notch programmers...you name it. It's not like they needed a job. Most of the problems are with the sculls full of mush young premeds, who go to med school steight from college. Basically they don't know what they don't know, and when they do it's too late with all the debt and years down thetube. Anyway, congrats to all of you who know what you want in life. I still don't, and it's driving me nuts.

I believe there are laws on the books in every State defining the use of a term "doctor" in aclinical settings. Doctor = Physician in a clinical sence. However, Doctor (Latin) = Teacher. So this is where your doctorate truly shines...in Acedemia. Intruducing yourself to a pt as "Dr. Nurse" is confusing at best, but may also land you in some pretty deep trouble. I wonder what these programs are teaching you guys. Is you "Dr." title regulated by any laws? I think most ppl are not as sophisticated as you may think, especially when they are really sick.You're likely to be asked something like "so which one are you a doctor or a nurse?", and rightfully so. Anyway, just my humble opinion. I'm sure you know these things better than I do

So are you going to advise your patients that you are a non-physician provider, or you just would tell them I'm Dr. so and so? This will really be misleading for a pt, and that's the reason for this bill (one out of many to follow, I believe).

I propose for those who want to practice medicine, or somehow to be identified as a "medical vs nursing practitioner" should go to the medical school, and not re-invent the wheel, and confuse the general public.

DCs and ODs mostly exist outside of INPATIENT clinical settings. Both, as far as I know, are not considered primary care. Tere was a crapload of both with me at ROSS University SOM back in 2004. Sorry, but MD/DO is where it is for being called a physician in the clinical setting. I understand the "cut coner" theory. And you guys, who have not gone to med school may have workd

I'm not sure if "Uh,,what?" was directed to me. But I made this comment on "soliant12" l"ocation/Country" under the screenname. If it is truely Turkmenistan, neighboring country to Afghanistan, and also known as Turkmenia (one of the 15 Republics in the former USSR), then s/he would understand. But to clarify: Suparmurat Niyazov is a president of this (now rogue) State, who appointed himself to be a life-long president of this country by "re-writing" the constitution. Anyway, this would be an inside thing for those who are familiar with it. Hope it helps.

Hey ERNP! I hope you don't view my comments as a negative. I'm actually looking for this positive reassurance that yes...it can be done. I've been struggling with the career choice of NP vs MD for a long, long time. I'm an RN x 16 yrs, so I'm certainly no RN/NP basher. But I was a medical student also,albeit for 2 short semesters. While in med school I've met NPs,PAs, even CRNAs and many other allied health folks, who were just like me ...simply not happy with their professional role, and yes, their status.But may be not to continue a very long, and very,very expansive medical education was a blessing for me too. I'm also a licensed Acupuncturist who wanted to have an integrative medicine practice, with the right to diagnose and to prescribe an Rx , if necessary. It would be a lot more difficult for an NP in NYC to have that level of the independence (esp financial) than a small town NP. But I'm glad that many NPs out there have found their niche.

Ah, Tukmenistan eh? How is Turkmen Bashi Niyazov is doing?I'm sure people in Ashabad are very happy

Hi SharonH, RN! I'm sure there are NPs out there in private practice, but mostly in the rural area. I'm from NY and certainly know about Capna. Most of the NPs there are doctorate prepared faculty members from the Columbia. I'm sure it serves political needs as well. But there are not too many other NPs in NY who are in their solo practice. I don't think it's possible from the business perspective. General public is not quite ready to see something other than MD/DO for their medical provider. Anyway, just an observation for this regional area.

Great post! Amen to that. I too am wondering about the hang up many NPs have about working independently, where in the same sentence they are saying "I'm not a substitute for MD/DO". But that's axactly how it's comming across for many of the docs out there. I'm also puzzled about the whole "independent practice" economic aspect. Couls some of you, independently working NPs, enlighten me on how patients choose to see you over the physician (if there is one around). Of course I'm talking about solo NP practice. I really want to know. I understand that you could work with a physician group, but then there would not be any difference between NP/PA in such a set up. And the issue of colaboration vs suprvision becomes irrelavent,IMHO.

Sure it could sound like right wing bs, especially if you're to the left of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin:trout: .But I gave my opinion, based on being a member of both, albeit at the different times. I also participated on the City-Wide negotiating commitee with 1199 back in 1994. And participated in the March on Washington,D.C. in 1995, where lots of good things were accomplished ( talk about Right Wing:uhoh3: )So I'm talking from the personal experience. What have you accomplished? How is being self-employed a "Right Wing?" I thought you liberals like the diversity, or is it only when it's a preversity?

Happy times for the MDs and DOs have been over for some time, except for some super competative specielties. But even those are nowhere close to what the've been. Things are drying up all across the board, and no discipline is immuned to their "sacred" turf anmore, IMHO

Hey np20020! Thanks for your very informative response. I've posted my questions on the occupational health forum over 2 months ago. I've got a coupple of vague responses.But the forum seems to be quite dead. Thanks again.

Even though 1199 seemed like an outright communist organization to me at a time (1990s), they sure did a lot more to represnt RNs than NYSNA in many of the institutions I've worked at. I don't know how they are now,though. I'm self-employed Thank G-d.

Thanks np20020! It's good to know that some NPs out there are happy. I was looking for some answers along the same lines. Are you an FNP or any other track grad? Also, are you in primary care or specializing? Thanks

"Oooouuu double vision" the hit from the "Foreigner" comes to mind:chuckle . Congratulations on the dual role. I guess the practice will advertise "open for business" 48/14 :roll Best of Luck

Hi mingus_lost! I've been struggling with the same problem (you can check some of my posts way back). I think it is a real mistake to somehow compare the two. It's also a very old "mantra" of nursing schools that only RNs and NPs treat holisticly. That's just rubbish. There are many, many nutritionaly-oriented physicians, who are also trained in alternative/complimentary medicine. But that's another topic. Here is the link to the forum where you may get broader view, and answers from ppl who have same/similar background. If doctor is what you want to be then you should go to the medical or an osteopathic school. Do not sattle for, or look for a shortcut. Tere are many, many ppl who went NP or PA route thinking it would give them the satisfaction. There are some great things you could do as a mid-level, but you will never be a doctor. But only you can decide what's good for you. Good Luck http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=110

It looks like GA takes the cake of the worst State for NPs for now. I'm sorry to hear that