badass

doesn't that depend on how much you are willing to work? I hear 100-150 being the norm so 200K is not that far out of range if you are willing to work extra.

If you want to get into management you need an MBA or go to med school.

What are your goals exactly? As I understand it, once you become a CRNA you are just that. I think if you want to get into managerial positions, upper level management you would probably need an MBA. Another option is going to med school and becoming the physician so you can supervise as they do now. Other than that, I am not sure what else can be done. I would think CRNA is the end of the road. My take is that this job is not one for advancement or to have a career. You are basically a trained technician that makes great $$.

me thinks you are not being realistic.

I thought were gonna say you had an acceptance to harvard or yale

We won't have interesting posts here because we are, for the most part, people who are not as educated and as they. We will always lag behing in that aspect. Our knowledge is lacking and nurses are not known for being "on top of things" for the most part. Just my two cents.

I thought we were nurses since our title is CRNA.

The point of my post is to illustrate that we are fighting a tough battle and I am concerned about how this will affect our jobs. I sound pessimistic in my post because seeing things like this makes me angry and, at times, makes me wonder if made the right decision to pursue a CRNA degree. I wonder if this decision can be appealed or if it is final.

New Jersey Supreme Court Unanimously Upholds Office-Based Surgery Regulations The New Jersey Supreme Court affirmed the Appellate Division's decision and held that the office-based surgery regulations challenged by the New Jersey Association of Nurse Anesthetists were within the Board of Medical Examiners' delegated authority. The Court agreed with the Appellate Division's holding that the administration of anesthesia is the practice of medicine and that the regulations fall squarely within the Board's core jurisdiction, the licensing and qualifications of physicians, and how they perform their professional services. It also agreed that while the regulations have an indirect impact on the CRNAs' profession, the BME is not regulating the nursing profession, but rather the physicians who offer anesthesia in an office setting. Recognizing the unique nature of the office setting, the Court held that the "wealth of testimony adduced at the public hearings on the regulations supported the need for enhanced education and oversight." This decision upheld the requirement that a qualified physician must supervise a nurse anesthetist who administers and monitors general or regional anesthesia. The regulations specify how many hours of continuing medical education in anesthesia the supervising physician must have completed. Lastly, the Court recognized the value of having an anesthesiologist involved in the delivery of anesthesia care. It is "fundamentally reasonable that additional education and training would enable anesthesiologists administering or overseeing anesthesia to better protect patients and to respond when complications occur." I guess we were not as powerful as we thought we were and this shows doctors will always be above us.

The fact that she died is besides the point. The CRNA screwed up. She should have attempted to resus the patient. Where were the LD nurses, crash cart, her supervising MDA, if any?

Thank you for taking the time to explain the rules of the game.

Maybe I read too much into things but it is really not black and white. The quote you posted reads: "A physician or authorized provider is not automatically liable when working with a CRNA, nor is the physician immune from liability when working with an anesthesiologist". This is a just crafty way of twisting the words. Sounds like they were writen by a lawyer. What they are trying to say is that the surgeon is not automatically liable when a CRNA works with him but may be automatically liable when he works with an MDA? It doesn't make sense. They are trying to make it sound as if somehow we are less liable than an MDA. The reason I keep wondering about this is to know why many CRNAs choose to be employes by a MDA group and have them take part of their fees. Is it only medicare cases that forces us to share part of the fee with the supervising doc (whether surgeon or mda)?

I do have my own and it seems to me you like to toot your own horn by implying you do a better job. If you are being supervised, they will obviously go after the boss since he takes all the responsability for your actions. That alone could account for the fact that they are sued more frequently than a CRNA.

I think your point implies CRNAs are seen under the same light as an MDA by malpractice attorneys. They look for the deep pockets and to them, anyone any other than the MDA, is likely to have shallow ones. Since most of us are/will be supervised by an MDA, they will always go for the big fish first. Now, when most of us begin to perform solo and 100% ofthe outcome is our responsability, you better believe they will figure out we are targets and they will come after us. After all, they want $$ regardsless of who it comes from. So I think we must not be naive and believe the current low rates will remain the same forever. When we take over the MDAs, our necks will be on the line.

This comment came from the attending in his attempt to explain the need for expansion of anesthesia residencies and I guess to explain why in the future the MDA will be mostly out of the OR given it is not economically viable for him to be there at all times.

Does anyone ever wonder what will happen when the market becomes flooded with CRNAs? Will we see a drop in salaries? I am a SRNA and today I heard one of my program heads discuss with one of the anesthesia attendings about anesthesiology and where it will be in the future and the attending mentioned that anesthesia residency programs will, in the next year, begin their expansion into more of the perioperative arena and carve out a niche in this area. He said in the future MDAs will spend a lot of time in the SICU and will be trained to become heads of this units and CRNAs will deliver almost, if not all, anesthesia. He also said the market will not sustain paying 350K to an MDA to "push propofol". That's all fine and dandy with me and it was great to hear the future looks good for us. What surprised me, however, was to hear my program head say that more and more CRNAs, as well as PAs, will be put into the work force to the point that the market will be saturated. She said right now CRNAs make great money because of the shortage but with supply of providers increasing the market, will again, push our salaries down and more to the level of NPs. Needless to say, I was not too optimistic about that comment and wonder if that will ever be an issue I need to worry about. She also stated the market will not bear paying 120-150K to us to just push fluids. I really didn't know what to think at that point and thought this lady was full of crappola. Any comments?