forane2001

die thread die

Yeah, ER docs push the drugs and miss the airway or tear the cuff and call anesthesia to clean up the mess

I am glad this topic was introduced. My facility is saturated with this type of mentality, so much that I have considered leaving. CRNA's are often "dumbed-down by other OR staff" Comments like" well you are just a nurse" are made at times. I have personally be told that I didn't count" I dont really understand why we should tolerate that type of attitude. Just because someone has seen anesthesia performed for 30 years doesnt mean they know anything about it. I had a bit longer and more complex thread written but the forum didnt take it, so sorry for the abbreviated version. I can say for sure that I knew very little about anesthesia before I went through school and I had researched being a CRNA for several years.. I just dont understand how people can be so arrogant and overbearing when they dont have the education or skills to back it up. I believe that everyone on the team should have respect. I can figure out how a PCT or scrub or LPN can "dumb down" a highly educated person like a CRNA and get by with it. By dumbing down I mean telling them they dont count/only the ologist counts/your not a doctor/you dont count/your just a nurse too. You get the point. All CRNA's have walked in the RN's shoes, but only a few RN's have walked in the CRNA's shoes. thanks

NO this is funny RN=$50000 per year CRNA=$200000+ per year Thats where the emphasis comes in :chuckle

Thanks piper for your understanding post. I am an advanced practice nurse. I hold a degree in anesthesiology and that is what I practice, not bedside nursing. Sorry, but that is how I feel. CRNA's have paid their dues. If you had gone thru the rigor of CRNA education not to mention the expense to obtain an advanced degree you would understand. Obviously you dont understand my positon on this post. SO FORGET IT. JUST MORE OF THE SAME. NURSES ALWAYS EAT THEIR YOUNG. THATS WHY THE NURSING PROFESSION GETS SCREWED EVERY WAY IT TURNS. INSTEAD OF UPLIFTING ONE ANOTHER, YOU TEAR EVERYBODY DOWN. CASE CLOSED

Your right it is a CRNA forum. Would the anesthesiologist been handed the cloth to clean the patient? I think not! That doesnt happen in the real world. I felt like this situation was an attempt to belittle me in front of the whole OR. I am not above helping a patient as I have done for many years. If he had asked the surgical PA to wipe the patient, he would have been knocked out of the room. Remember all CRNA's have walked in the RN's shoes, but not all RN's have walked in a CRNA's shoes. I am sorry but CRNA's and RN's have entirely different roles. :)

Crna's out there: How would you feel and respond to the phrase" you are just a nurse too". My place of employment is shall I say "less than respectful" to CRNA's. All too often the aforementioned statement is directed in my path. I know of nothing that I do to provoke such a statement. How would "you are just an orderly or you are just a circulator go over?" We are totally overshadowed by the MDA's. It is unbelievable how the nurses and scrub tecks ( i misspelled on purpose) lol) suck up to the mds. I can ignore that and am thankful that I don't need to suck up to anyone. The one of many situations in which I was reminded that I was just a nurse was during placement of a spinal (which I was doing) We turned the patient to the left lateral position and she had a wound that had silvadene cream on it. This left a terrible mess right up the spine where I needed to prep. I had already started opening my spinal tray and gloves when we found this. One of the nurses went out to get a washcloth. When he came back in he handed it to me and I just looked at him kinda funny I guess. Thats when he said "well you are just a nurse too" I found that to be offensive. Not that I am above cleaning a patient but I have done my share of that. The way I feel, is I earned my degree and paid for it in more ways than one. I have never seen another crna, pa , md clean a patient so why am I expected by this guy to do it?? I feel the need almost daily to have to defend what crnas do in this OR. Do you experience the same things? How do you rebel this type of behavior. thanks

It takes the right caliber person to be a CRNA. The requirements may say min of 1 year but most have several years experience. Admissions is tough. No cakewalk and it may take more that one application. Its a whole different world. NO comparsion to staff nursing, I dont care what the law or anyone else says, it is totally different- For instance practicing the full scope of anesthesia by yourself!!! You are it. Manage all the complications-Being responsible for every drug you give and its ramifications. Securing the airway before they desaturate or aspirate! If you cant- they are probably dead and you are going to court!! Sorry but CRNA's are not just nurses!!! How about being the only CRNA in a forward military MASH unit? No backup. During the first part of Iraqi freedom there were about 360 CRNA's deployed compared to 77 MDA's. Not to be arrogant or belittling. I am respectful of all those around me and I appreciate everyones job I just want people to respect and appreciate the CRNA especially since they have no clue as to what we do. Sorry, but please dont ever refer to me as "just a nurse" And yes I went through nursing "JUST TO BE A CRNA!!!!!!!! I planned it before I even graduated high school. I had 3 yrs of EMS before I finished high school and continue that until I finished my nursing and had to go off to CRNA school. I was a cardiac technician with ACLS by age 17. So I think being a CRNA takes a special, dedicated person. just my .02c

What about CRNA's that are told they are "just a nurse". How would that make you feel. One day I had my wallet out looking for a note that I had written and one of the scrubs in the room said "There is nothing in there, your just a nurse!" I promptly told her that I was so glad she was an expert on my financial situation and that I would take my check over hers anyday. So the just a nurse statement goes both ways. CRNA's are not just nurses. Thats a fact. All CRNA's are registered nurses, but not all registered nurses are CRNA's. You will never understand the profession of nurse anesthesia until you have walked the walk.

Why don't we just ask the Walmart greeter come up and do lines, epidurals, and IV's. At my hospital I think they get new hires by standing on the corner and passing out applications. I appreciate our anesthesia techs where I am but sometimes they over-value their role. Once our senior tech(she came with the building) sorry) asked me if Dr. So and So like a tri-jet on the IV for drips. Hello, I am doing the case and managing the drips-What about my preference. I told her to find out for herself since my opinion didn't matter. Another case in point in which 2 anesthesia techs were talking about "doing a swan. I have not put in a swan in awhile, can I do this one?. Yes all they do is set up the lines and hold for the MDA to put in" but they are doing the SWAN. Its amazing how folks with little or no formal education are so smart and know your job as a CRNA. They do the MDA's the same way at times. The scrub tecks at my facility are the most arrogant people I have seen. I wont go there now.

To the contrary: Red Man's Syndrome IS MENTIONED IN THE PDR

Thanks Big Dave, I think for now I will just document the incident in my own file and have it ready in case something else pops up. It would not be appropriate to bring this topic up in front of the other pacu staff-probably will have more of them on my case if I write her up anyway. It is my hope that other facilities are not this way-very depressing if it is. Like I said, we CRNA's seem to be invisible at this hospital but the cardiology PA's and other disciplines are in the "click" if you know what I mean. For instance-the other day-and I may have mentioned it before-sorry if I did, I came into PACU with Vancomycin hanging (not running). It was a case where the BP was a little low no matter what I did so I told the surgeon the Vanco had to go until the vol anesthetic was off-so we could figure out what the source of hypotension was. He was cool with that. So in PACU I explained why the Vanco was off-well that was not good enough. The RN started it right back trying to get it in. I told her to leave it off due to the BP situation. I had to physically take the dial-a-flow away from her and turn off the Vanco before she killed him. Then she said" well I never heard of Vanco causing low BP. I had to explain to her about the histamine release yada yada. Why didnt she do as I told her to start. Who does she thinks controls these meds in the OR anyway?? I guess enough of this topic guys. thanks for the responses. I hope I didnt make people mad but you will never understand being a CRNA until you walk in our shoes.

Have any jobs open stevie ??? lol

I dont mind to help out but it really annoys me especially in the OR actions such as tieing everybody up and hanging irrigation and raising the bed or moving this or that. (Hello people, I have a job too. The BP is 60/49 but lets stop and tie up the scrub tech.) I am sorry but guys CRNA's are not just nurses no matter how hard you want us to be. We are not in the same job. Just a hard fact. Most RNs can fathom the level of responsibility. Thats the way the boards of medicine, nursing and the courts see it. Wait till your sued the first time. See where the buck stops. Ask that PACU RN to come up and answer the deposition!! Someone made the comment that we are not MD's (true but we deserve no less respect as anyone else.) I have never kissed up to an MD and never will. That is the problem with nursing and it always will be. If the ANA would stick together and not rip everyone Nurses in the US could write their own ticket. Sorry for rambling.

Just wondering how many CRNA's feel put down in their job-especially by ancillary staff (scrub tecks,(lol) circulators, and PACU RNS I love being a CRNA and like all of you I worked extremely hard under difficult cirumstances to achieve this goal. I have been in practice 3 yrs now and I really hate where I work because of the above. I really dont know what to do about it. Most of the ologists that I work for are tolerable. I have more harsh feelings toward the staff that anything and I really cant pinpoint what I ever did to any of them. All they see is the authority of the ologist. An example of the BS I put up with: The other day I rolled into PACU with a 15 yr pt s/p ingunial hernia repair. The kid was completely stable, just sleepy and the nurse that was taking the him motioned for me to come to her light. I locked the stretcher and gave a verbal report like always and stepped to the end of the stretcher to finish my chart. She began applying the monitors and grumbled at me that I should have helped her hook him up. Now, if she had been busy or the pt unstable, I would have as I always do. She walked around me to hook up the BP cuff and then came up to me and sarcastically patted me on the back and said we really appreciate all of your hard work. you are so appreciated!!. Now wait a minute! Where did that come from. This woman has attitude anyway but I have never done or said anything out of the way to her and she gives me crap. Other CRNA's have problems with her. It is such a negative environment to work in. We get crap from scrub techs, and circulators to. Those circulators really think they run the OR and anesthesia. I guess I am just tired of the disrespect and I dont understand where it comes from. Why does she think she can talk to me that way or anyone for that matter. I dont command respect but when I am respectful I believe it should be given in a professional manner whether you like the person or not. I know that if an MD was at the foot of the bed she would kiss their butt. So I dont think I should have to tolerate this but I am not sure how to approach it. I have the paperwork to write her up (not that it will do any good, but at least someone will know that CRNA's are tired of their crap.) Any helpful hints would be apprecitated. thanks bill