pamchris

Hey Flaviammc, Congrats on the ICU offer. Have you looked into the public CRNA schools in your state? I know my wife's tuition was fairly reasonable, but as you probably know we had to go out of pocket for tuition as Chiro school maxes out your student loans. CRNA school is no joke as far as the intensity and schedule. It's different than chiropractic school, but I'm pretty sure she thinks its at least as intense and probably more time demanding. Hope that helps... let me know if you have any more questions! - Chris

Really a tough question... I often get younger kids and high school students asking me about the profession as they want to get into chiropractic after they see the good results from treatment. Instead of fully endorsing that choice, I often warn them. Not that it is a bad profession, but it can be a risky one in that you basically have one real option - to start your own business. And the chiro schools don't teach this side of the profession very well (at least when I went). That's why I tell younger students to look into physical therapy or nursing or PA, etc as you have more OPTIONS. It's tough to spend $200K+ on an education and come out basically not guaranteed anything. You can't work for a hospital or some big healthcare center. You either open up on your own and do your best to make things work OR you can try to get a job as an associate doc, but they pay VERY low considering the education. I think as an associate doc you make $40-50K starting which you can probably make without 8 years of college :) That all being said, I love what I do and it's worked out very well for us. Took a while to get started, but now after 8 years in Practice I am working Mon-Thursday and need to probably bring in a 2nd doc to keep up with demand. As MIZ-DC mentioned, the chiropractic field is a little divided. There are a lot of docs that focus on all sorts of natural remedies/supplements and can be rather anti-medical on many things. I am pretty much the complete opposite. I focus on musculoskeletal issues (mostly like a sports injury doctor) using muscle techniques (Graston) with adjustments. I don't get into vaccines or getting patients off their meds or any of that stuff as I think that is a very dangerous slope. You can definitely create a great life for yourself with chiropractic, but it is definitely is a bit risky and a fair amount of time and work to get it going the right way. I do no advertising or anything like that at this point, so my job is a lot more fun that when I first started. It's just that nursing and other fields have soooo many more options. The CRNA route alone is (in our case) $35-40K for the whole program and when you get out you are pretty much guaranteed a job that pays six figures easy. Initial return on investment is much better from a straight financial viewpoint. More importantly, my wife seems to love what she is learning. Hope that helps! - Chris

Good to hear from you guys. It's crazy it's been 4/5 years. So, here is the update... My wife finished up her BSN locally and luckily get into an ICU new grad program at local hospital and starting working in the Surgical/Trauma ICU. After 2 years working and also taking the GRE, she applied to 2 in state CRNA schools and got into both and chose the school closest to us us (2 hours from my chiro office). She just finished her first year. I think having the background in chiro definitely helps your chances of getting in, however it's hard to say in her case as she had excellent credentials besides that (4.0GPA in Chiro School and 4.0GPA in Nursing school and a pretty high GRE school). Anyway, the first year went great (still has a 4.0 in CRNA school as well so far) and I work Mon-Thursday so I go visit her every Thursday through Sunday and it's worked better than expected for us. She really likes the school and we are both excited for the end point (Spring 2018). One issue to be aware of as a chiro is that when she applied for student loans she was completely denied on all possible loans as they said she maxed out everything due to chiro school ($200K + loans). Damn chiro school is a rip off! Luckily, the CRNA school is a public in state school that isn't too expensive and our chiro office is doing pretty well so we can cover the cost of her tuition. Overall, we are both very happy she went this direction. It will be very nice when she is making a sizable known income every month to go along with the ups and downs of profit with the chiro office. Please ask any and as many questions as you want! I'm happy to help as a few years ago, we were in same boat and wanted to hear from someone that went through the process.

Well, just looking at options now as I'm a bit older since I've been a chiropractor first. It looks like my local hospital is hiring in ER and CCU... however, if we move a few hours away, i can get into ICU at a level 1 trauma center rather easily. So, there in lies my dilemma as we have a chiro practice (that my husband runs) locally. Is CCU > ER as far as experience goes? SuperNurse123, great job and thats good to know! What school are you at? How do you like it so far? krisjazzer13, same quesiton... what school are you at.. and do you like it? Thanks for all the help!

Hey guys, had 2 quick questions. Background: New grad nurse with chiropractic degree (3.98 GPA) and BSN in December (4.0GPA). 1. The hospital here (level 2 trauma center) is hiring new graduates in the Emergency Dept. Does it absolutely have to be a level 1 center to be apply to the schools that do allow ER experience? 2. For the schools that only want ICU experience. Hypothetically, if you had 6 months in the ER and 9 months in ICU, would that count as acceptable experience since overall its over a year or would they just throw out that application? Thanks!

There are a few hospitals that run 5-6 month (or even 1 yr) ICU programs for new grads. If you get into one of those programs and stay on as an ICU nurse, do the residency time count towards the ICU requirement of 1 year? Thanks, Chris

ckh23, yeah thats a good question and to be honest she doesn't fully know. She knows she wants to get an advanced degree and is leaning towards CRNA based on the autonomy and quality of life. She just got set up to shadow a CRNA next month so i assume that will help quite a bit. The other option would be to work towards an NP and possibly do that with chiropractic (multi-disciplinary practice), but a lot of her reason of getting out of chiropractic was the business side of things. She wants to go to work, do her job, get paid, and not have to worry about the roller coaster finances of everything. I enjoy doing research and in fact am doing more of our wedding research too! haha. She takes over when it comes to making the decisions in both cases. As much as its her decison and future, it is kind of a group decision as I have to start figuring out if i need to sell our practice based on what type of experience she needs to go futher. - Chris

Thanks for the info! You were right on. Marcia from RSNA emailed me back and the total in state (with fees) for the whole program is $31,500... not a bad deal! And the total out of state is $58,495. She updated the page on RSNA website to now correctly reflect this change. - Student Fees Btw, do you know how RSNA looks at ICU experience vs. grades. My fiancee is getting her BSN this December. We are both chiropractors so we are bit older and she would like to start the CRNA route as soon as possible. If she gets an ICU job where we are right out of school (which will be very difficult), she will have well under 2 years experience when she can first apply. Her stats. BSN gpa - 4.0 Chiropractic Doctorate Program GPA - 3.95 (Valedictorian) GRE - yet to take, but probably will be high The downside is the hospital near us is not a level I trauma center and not a really big hospital. Is it worth selling our chiro practice and moving to an area with a larger hospital or is a 10 bed ICU experience in a level 2 hospital good enough? Thanks, Chris

thanks for the info. I put an email into RSNA and ill keep you posted on the exact numbers. I got the $42K from this link - http://www.all-crna-schools.com/raleigh-school-of-nurse-anesthesia.html Thanks, Chris

quick question, with fees isnt RSNA more like $42K for the whole program? And not the $20K the original poster was quoting? Thanks, Chris

Thats a bit of an issue. It will be hard for her to get a job right out of school here, and tougher to get right into ICU as a new grad. The hospital is a level II trauma center not level 1 and i think the MICU has only 10 beds and SICU has 8 beds, so not overly large. Does this warrant moving? Or if she is lucky enough to get a job and into ICU, is that level of a hospital good enough to get in with her academics? Our end goal is to be in the Boston area, but we are open (as far as CRNA school goes) to moving anywhere in NC or anywhere in the NE. But, would rather not move twice (for ICU job and then again for CRNA school). Thanks, Chris

Couple questions here that I would love some help on. My fiancee will be graduating this December with her BSN. She will then be looking for an ICU job (i know this can be tough, so most likely get another nursing job first and then transition to ICU). Anyway, we are both chiropractors so i wanted to know how the GPA is calculated as time and ICU experience are not on her side. 1. Her nursing gpa is a 4.0 so far. How is the overall GPA calculated. She graduated as valedictorian of our doctorate chiropractic program (3.95gpa), however didnt do as well in her undergrad (3.7ish). Do they take the undergrad classes that were transferred over when she entered nursing school? 2. Many CRNA schools have course requirements and a time limit (10years). We both graduated undergrad in 2004 and promptly went to chiro school where we graduated in 2008. So, her undergraduate science courses will be close to being over that 10 year mark when she applies. However, she took and did very well in the doctorate/grad level science courses in chiro school (biochem, microbio, etc). Do those count? 3. If she does well on GRE, is it worth it to apply during your first year of ICU experience? She will have great academic records but little icu experience. Not sure if the chiro doctorate helps at all. I told her i would do all her research for her, so thanks for any help you can offer! - Chris

Not sure im far enough along to help as my fiancee is almost in the same spot as you. But, as we were the original poster, ill give you our update. My fiancee is in semester 3 of 4 (ends next December) of a local BSN program. She is mostly not in our chiropractic office anymore (she comes in only one afternoon a week to perform acupuncture on a few patients since she is certified and i am not). Its nice to pay in state tuition! She now gets paid to go to school as she got a couple scholarships and she TA's and tutors younger nursing students. That sure beats $160K chiro education that leaves you with basically one option - start your own practice. Anyway, the plan right now is to try to get a nursing job (preferably ICU but that might be tough) ASAP after she graduates. Many suggested to get an aide/secretarial job in ICU while in school but she hasn't done that yet. But as soon as she gets that ICU experience then we just apply like crazy to CRNA schools (not worrying too much about where they are)... we are looking to move to the northeast so we would basically take any school in 3-4 state range as most say the school you go to does not matter. The website all-crna-schools.com is quite helpful with that kind of stuff... application dates, tuition, length of program, etc. Are you still practicing while getting your BSN? Thanks, Chris

Just curious, have you started your nursing school yet? My fiancee and I are both chiros and she just started up nursing school in January. Gotta love in-state tuition! I love helping people through chiro care, however i do agree it is tough to build a successful practice (especially if you don't put patients on ridiculous long term treatment plans!). She is looking at the CRNA or NP route... leaning towards CRNA right now just due to the quality of life. She is working on getting in to shadow one to see if she will enjoy the profession. For all those out there that don't understand why all these chiros are moving to nursing, i heard a stat at the last Cont. ed seminar i was at that was quite alarming: Tuition at Chiro School: 1980: $250 a quarter 2010: $8,000 a quarter (well all is said it costs $160K+) Now, here's the kicker... average salary for a chiropractor today is EXACTLY the same as a chiro in 1980. And that's NOT even after adjusting for inflation! It can be a great profession... however, we need to get plugged into the medical mainstream as a major referral option for MD's when they have patients with mechanical back/neck pain. Right now, the nursing route seems to be a great place to be so good luck with that... a LOT more options than chiropractic (where you only have 1 - open up a practice). Good Luck!!!

I took the HESI but it was only math, reading, bio, and chem. I know some others have vocab and anatomy and physiology sections but mine did not. The math was generally described as word problems, some were just calculations but not many. The reading was not specifically science. Just random passages about a variety of things.

And YES, DNA stuff in both bio and chem sections.

Yeah, I only had to take those 4 sections (not the A/P). There were some very basic A/P questions mixed in throughout bio but if you have to take that separate test you'll pry need to study a little more for that. The Kaplan book has some A/P, probably a good start. Cell parts, cycle, a little taxonomy for bio and compounds, basic reactions, and structures for chem. Good luck!!

oh okay.. thanks. The school's minimum requirement is 75%. I just took it yesterday so I thought I'd give some insight into the test while it's still fresh. I was mostly worried about the chem and bio sections (some schools don't require them) but I did alright. Overall score -94.4% Math - 96 (mostly proportions and fractions - few common conversions) Science - 94 (Bio - 100 Chem - 88) Reading Comp - 93.3 Just a little help for those that still have to take it - I know I had some questions as my test day approached! I used 2 study guides: Barrons and Kaplan. Barrons is a good book to start with - it's pretty general and gives you a good idea of what kinds of things to study. I preferred Kaplan as it was a little more in depth. It probably provided too much information but if you can get through it, I think the extra is worth it. I used Kaplan as a guide and when there were topics that I wanted more info. on, i referenced my old chem and bio book from college. Math: Very basic math. A LOT of fractions: +,-,x,/ of and converting to mixed and improper and reducing. I probably had about 10 that were fill in and not multiple choice. I was not allowed a calculator so everything was done long hand. The conversions were all pretty common: kg to lb, cups, pints, quarts and ounces. Science: Kaplan did a pretty good job preparing for these two sections. Bio was very general and the book hit on all the topics. Chem - some definitions of chemical terms, 1-2 problems, some different bonds, a little acid base, but most were just MC questions about general theory and chemistry terms. Reading Comp: Both Kaplan and Barron study guides for this section were more difficult than the actual test. I didn't have any long passages. They were all 1-4 paragraphs that would fit on the small computer screen. Not a lot to do to prepare for this section besides do some practice tests and get a feel for the type of questions: main idea, what the author is inferring/implying, the definition of words used in the passage, and difference between fact or opinion etc. Sorry so long. Hope this helps anyone who has yet to take it!

Thanks for the reply, but i was actually looking for the way the HESI entrance exam (to get into nursing school) is calculated.

I cant seem to find information anywhere on how the HESI A2 entrance exam score is calculated. For example, if you get a 96%, does that mean you got 48 of the 50 questions right? Or is it a percentile--- meaning that you are in the top 4%? Thanks!

seriously!... im a chiro too. Can be extremely frustrating too (without the large paycheck... if you're ethical).

Just curious whether you guys think having a chiropractic degree will help in getting accepted to CRNA school. And if so, do you think its a significant advantage? - Do CRNA schools look at graduate science classes (4.0 at chiropractic school) or just undergrad science courses (had a couple B+'s in there)? - From what I've read on here, a high GPA in nursing with minimum ICU experience ( Also, on a complete separate note, Ive heard a lot of students worrying about student loan debt. I am pretty well researched in this department since me and my fiancee both have a ton of student loans since we both went to chiro school (150K each). Anyway, just wanted to let you know of another option if you are worried about risk. There is an IBR (income based repayment) that is available. Basically, you just pay a portion of your discretionary income each month. If your loan is not paid off in 20 years, it is supposed to be forgiven by the government. May not be the route for everyone, but figured I'd let you all know. You can google it or check out this site: ibrinfo.com Thanks! -Chris

Thanks for all your input. As for why I am not completely happy with chiropractic - it really has nothing to do with patient care. I actually very much enjoy that part of it, and if that was all I had to do then I might not even be thinking about something else. But in the field of chiropractic there are 2 sides. . . the patient care and the marketing/selling of your services (something that many health care professionals do not have to do as they are generally accepted). That whole side really doesn't fit my personality and honestly, if I have to do it for the rest of my life I can see that I would not end up as happy as I'd like. With that being said, I'm still fairly young and figure this is the best time to make a change if I'm going to. Better sooner than later. So I really appreciate all the advice and suggestions! It has been very helpful. As far as NP vs. CRNA, I'm really just trying to gather as much info. as possible right now. I'm not even in the nursing program yet and I'm sure once I'm there I'll get a better idea as to what I would like and where I would best fit.

Thanks for all the advice and sorry for the delay in response. Still have a couple questions. 1. Based on what you all said, I would think the best idea is to get the BSN done here. During that time, if possible, she can try to work as an aid or secretary in a hospital to better her chances of getting an ICU job out of the gate. By the way, do secretary/aids get paid anything for this or is it more of an intern type thing. We originally thought she would just help out at our chiro office during her spare time, but if a job in the hospital would significantly help the chances of landing an ICU job then we should probably go that route instead. Once she gets the ICU job she will take GRE's and start applying to CRNAs schools - with a preference for a state public school. Does that make the most sense? 2. Recently, we were talking to the primary doc we refer with in our building. He thought it would be better for her to do the NP instead of the CRNA based on the ability to refer (ethically without violating Starks law or anything) for chiropractic since he said as a general NP she would see probably over 30% back/neck pain patients. (This question is probably more geared to the chiropractor that posted on this thread.) I guess the best idea would be to shadow an NP and a CRNA during her BSN schooling. Is this easy to do? Thanks for all your advice so far... it has been super helpful. This forum is a GREAT resource! I wish chiros had something like this. -Chris

thanks for you advice! It actually brings up another question. - At the time you apply, do you need 1 year of experience of ICU already or just by the time the program would start? Along the same line, how much time is there between when you apply and when most programs start? - how easy is it to find an ICU job especially as a new grad? And what is the avg starting salary for that -around 50K or so? - Provided she gets a perfect 4.0 in the BSN, is it still NOT a good idea to get ICU experience near where she wants to get her CRNA degree? So, it's a NOT a good idea to move to the area she wants to go to CRNA school? - Any particular good state (out of NC, MA, IA) to practice CRNA and/or a good CRNA program? I am partial to Boston because i went to school at BC, but i know both programs are going to be very expensive since they are not public schools. Thanks again! We really appreciate your help. Chris