CrashVector

And if other groups had that attitude, women still wouldnt be able to vote and there would still be slavery.

no, its not "just part of the gig". its blatantly illegal.

Now that the AACN is requiring nurse practitioners to have a doctorate's degree, I no longer plan to go on to become a nurse practitioner. Why? simple. Because some genious decided to force nurses that want to become an NP to earn a doctorate's degree, but the pay won't change. The AACN's position is that they wanted a "parity degree" to the M.D, except that they didnt actually create parity. Imagine finding out that RN's will no longer be paid as an RN, and instead will be paid LPN salary instead. What would be the motivation to continue on? Same with the NPs. Why earn a doctorate's degree and get paid the same as other NP's who have an MSN instead?! Makes absolutely NO sense. Oh, and I've already seen the strife that MD's are putting up trying to not allow DNP's to call themselves "Doctor". Would I earn my DNP degree, I would reserve the right to be addressed by the title that the degree confers. So, yeah...the AACN just "priced me out" of the market because I simply cannot afford to be in school for the extra years to earn the doctorate's degree, and come out making what someone with a master's degree makes. Extra student loans to pay off, extra years working the night shift, etc etc. Not worth it.

JULES: As I was leaving yesterday, three of the nurses were filling out incident reports, and I had already filled one out. I'm a stickler for documenting EVERYTHING I see. I called the unit this morning, and talked to the nurse manager, who told me last evening that they were having a meeting this morning about what to do with this kid. As it stands now, they are attempting to arrange his transfer to a juvenile detention facility due to his repeated pattern of random assaults. I was told that the physician who is responsible for repeatedly admitting this kid to the unit has also been told that the patient is no longer welcome at our facility due to the fact that we cannot adequately staff the unit while he is there. The tech that he assaulted was his 1:1 observer. The patient had asked to leave the group room to use the bathroom, and as the tech walked along side him, he simply spun and punched him in the face without warning, and proceeded to continue to hit him because the tech tripped as he was backing away from him. The patient jumped on him while he was on the ground and continued to punch the tech. The tech was fired for striking the kid in the chest in an attempt to get the patient off of him so he wouldn't continue to be hit. In an incident such as this, I think the tech's actions were completely justified, even though he DID in fact hit the patient. His only other alternative was to continue to allow the patient to punch him in the face while he was on the ground until help arrived to pull the patient off of him. In a case like this, I fully feel that physical force is justified being as the tech was in a very precarious position and because the patient's obvious wish to do him severe harm. In regards to some things I've read on the 'net about being choked by patients, I think my training gives me good perspective on how dangerous that is in particular. A proper choke will render just about anyone unconcious in 3-5 seconds. It is potentially lethal. In tournaments, I have both been choked out and have choked out other competitors. In my experience, it takes between 2 and 4 seconds due to physical exertion. A choke that is not released within 30 seconds has a good chance of causing brain injury due to the fact that neither oxygen nor blood is getting to the brain. Although admittedly a very extreme example, would a patient ever succeed in getting me in a choke hold, I would fight like my life depended on it, because it just very well might. License be damned. I'm smart enough to get a different degree. I'm not willing to be beat to the point of permanant injury because policy says I'm not supposed to defend myself. In this tech's case, I'd sue. Not enough security measures in place to ensure the safety of the staff against a KNOWN violent patient.

A few interesting facts about violence against nurses. Found this on the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services website: http://bhpr.hrsa.gov/nursing/NACNEP/reports/fifth/intro.htm "Violence against nurses is a complex and persistent occupational hazard facing the nursing profession. This violence can take the form of intimidation, harassment, stalking, beatings, stabbings, shootings, and other forms of assault. Nurses are among the most assaulted workers in the American workforce. " Notice in the article that they only count it as an assualt if it results in injuries that require the nurse to take time off of work...so only God knows how many nurses are assaulted and it is NOT reported. "The causes for underreporting are numerous. Many nurses believe that being assaulted may be viewed as poor performance on their part, or that assaults are just part of the job. " "“Seventy percent of nurses are assaulted on duty during their careers." Here is the scariest part: Nurses are more likely to be assaulted than prison guards or police officers. "Health care workers are more likely to be attacked at work than prison guards or police officers. Nurses are the health care workers most at risk, with female nurses considered the most vulnerable. General patient rooms have replaced psychiatric units as the second most frequent area for assaults. Physical assault is almost exclusively perpetrated by patients. 97 percent of nurse respondents to a UK survey knew a nurse who had been physically assaulted during the past year. 72 percent of nurses don't feel safe from assault in their workplace. " I'm just trying to say that with violence against nurses on such a scale, preventing said nurse (or CNA or MHT or Tech) from even being able to protect themselves without being fired is rediculous.

I agree. I could in NO way in good concience recommend the unit where I work to anyone. The unit doesn't practice what they (we) preach. We try to teach them coping skills like taking a walk or watching some TV until they cool off, but we don't let them go outside and the physicians have a "rule" against letting them watch TV. The physicians have to approve any books the kids can read, there is no excercise room, etc. There are all things I have raised as concerns during staff meetings, and I tend to get looks like I have worms crawling out of my nose. The teen in question from today isn't just your typical angry kid. I have seen probably two kids like him in all the time I've been a nurse. He beats the snot out of his crippled grandmother. He beats the snot out of his mother. He comes to our unit repeatedly (this is his 6th admit to our unit) and tries to beat the snot out of random staff members. And yes, I am capable of subduing someone without causing injury (pressure points and the like) but its not always possible to completely rule out the case of accidental injury during the take down of an extraordinarily violent patient. The question wasn't really for ME exactly, but what about those that are NOT able to take someone like that down? Do they simply get their heads beat in because they can't protect themselves? It's sometimes really sad to watch...we do our dead-level best to help these kids, and every so often you get one that just wants to try and hurt other people. Doesn't matter if its out of poor self-esteem or because their mother abandonded them. The point is they are trying to severely injure staff members and we are not allowed to protect ourselves. I personally have never been injured...and I sometimes DO work in a forensic unit. But I HAVE seen other staff members pretty beat up, as in bloodied and sent to the ER themselves. The patient in question isn't a "psych" patient as in he doesnt have schizophrenia or bipolar or another physiological problem. His diagnosis is "ODD"...Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I'm not saying we as nurses should get in the habit of injuring patients because we forget basic skills to de-escalate a patient, or because we're too lazy to try to bond with them. What I AM saying is that in the rare case of a patient who is explosively and unpredictably violent, nurses should be able to protect themselves without fear of being fired. It's not a question of putting overly aggressive staff on a unit to beat the hell out of a kid for lashing out. It's a question of maintaining an atmosphere where we will have the backing of the hospital should the rare case arise where a staff member is being beaten and we have to protect them from being smashed in the face by a chair.

I am a male LPN working at a large hospital in Louisiana. My question is simple: When are nurses allowed to defend themselves against assault and battery with physical force? I work on an adolescent behavioral unit. We are supposed to be helping teens with family issues and depression or bipolar disorder...NOT hardcore violent teen criminals or thugs cracked out on crystal meth. In the past year or so, we have been getting more and more of the violent ones. These patients will sucker-punch staff in the face and then throw their hands up and say "I'm calm now" and nothing is done. Worse, as in today's incident, a patient outright started a fistfight with one of our techs for NO reason, and the tech was FIRED because he fought back. OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! This kid was bashing him in the face while he was pinned on the ground, and the tech was fired for hitting the kid to try and get him off of him. So we are supposed to take someone who is throwing full-power punches and kicks and subdue them gently in a manner that doesnt hurt the patient? I happen to be the only male nurse on my unit. We have male techs, but only one of them is actually big enough to take down someone larger than about 150 pounds who is resisting. My unit depends heavily on me as the only male nurse, AND as someone who has martial arts training in the form of competing on a college-level martial arts team. I am supposed to take a patient who is trying to rip my head off and simply "wrap him up and drag him down". I want to know what, if any, legal trouble I would be in for using physical force against a patient that is actively trying to seriously injure me. We've had patients throw chairs at us, jump into the nurse's station and throw staplers at staff, and try and punch us in the face or kick in our knees. I'm actively looking for a new job, as I feel strongly that I am NOT a punching bag for angry teenagers...and it's only a matter of time before I'm backed into a corner and and forced to defend myself...for which I know I will be fired. I am a single father, and have a young child to care for. I cannot afford to be permanantly injured or take extended time off work to heal because I'm not "allowed" to protect myself from bodily harm. In public, we all have the explicit RIGHT to protect ourself from harm. Why does that right not apply to nurses? Is is because that right ceases to exist at the front door of a hospital? We are actively discouraged from pressing charges. "Makes for bad P.R." is what I was told on one occassion. I don't really care about a hospital's narcissistic need to be adored by the public at large. I have a 4 year-old counting on his daddy to take care of him...and I cannot do that if I am injured because we are not allowed to "fight back". PEDS ER has 2 cops with tasers. They get these violent patients in, tase them into submission, pump them full of Geodon, then send them over to my unit where the only security is two male techs and myself. That way, when the Geodon wears off, they can try to kick OUR teeth in...except we don't have cops OR tasers. Sorry for the rant. I'm just another nurse SICK AND TIRED of being assaulted by patients and NOT having the right to open a can of my own to prevent myself from being used as a punching bag. In case it got lost in my long post: When do nurses have the right to use physical force to stop a patient from punching us?

I do not go to charity, nor am I an RN student. I am currently a senior in an LPN program in Baton Rouge...I graduate this October. We have two clinicals left (geriatrics 2 and Professionalism) before we're done. The things I have personally found the MOST useful (in order) are: 1. My laptop computer. I type all my notes on it from class. I can print out paper copies if I need them, and I can get/send email to other classmates on the spot if need be. Seriously...best purchase I EVER made. 2. LOTS of little notepads. I use these in clinicals. Just the cheap ones from Wal-Mart will do. I use them to keep track of everything I have done, and everything I need to do during the day at clinicals. I also write down reminder notes on them. I write stuff I find hard to remember like all the pediatric IV calculation formulas on the inside front cover. Comes in REALLY handy when your instructor who hasn't seen you in 2 hours says "what have you been doing?" and you can flip open your notepad and say "well, at 0915, I was doing this. Then at 0945 I did this" and so on. 3. Care Plan book. Yeah, yeah...people will say don't use them, they aren't helpful, etc etc. They're expensive, but they've saved MY butt a few times, as well as the butts of just about ALL my classmates at one point or another. Get one despite what your instructors/other nurses will say. You WILL thank me later. 4. You will think this one is funny, but it's SO true: a nice set of smooth-writing and comfortable-to-hold pens...in black ink. You will be writing a LOT..and I mean probably more than you have ever written before in your life. Again...you WILL thank me later. 5. The most comfortable shoes you can find. Price is not a concern. Find the most comfortable shoes you can find and buy them no matter how much they cost. Mine were $180 and i almost had a coronary when I paid the bill. I felt much better when I was the only student without aching feet the next week. BTW: I bought a pair of all-white NewBalance 926's with the memory-foam inserts. Best. Shoes. Ever. It's like walking on a Tempur-Pedic mattress. 6. A good stethoscope. Don't get the el-cheapo model that comes with the nursing kit. Spend the extra $20 and get a good Littmann 'scope. You can get them online at www.stethoscope.com Remember, single-tube 'scopes are lighter, but double-tube 'scopes let you hear subtle sounds better. I personally have both, and FAR prefer my double-tuber. 7. This will also sound funny, but makes a big, BIG difference at clinicals: The most comfortable underwear/socks/t-shirts you can find. Having soft, comfy socks keeps your feet from getting sore from standing all day...make sure they're crew socks to add a little compression to your lower leg (you'll be standing all day long). The underwear...well, i probably don't have to explain this one. The t-shirts because you will be doing a lot of physical labor for clinicals, and a good, soft t-shirt keeps your scrubs/uniforms from bunching up and rubbing your skin raw. 8. Sleep. You aren't going to get enough so I'll skip that and just say to get as much as you can at all costs. I should have made this #1 as sleep deprivation in the #1 worst thing about nursing school.