Jerry1234

yes, this is another jehovah's witness thread. there will continue to be such so long as innocent lives continue to be lost. misinterpreting the old testament prohibition against eating animal blood as a routine food item, the watchtower society began teaching in 1945 that receiving a blood transfusion was "eating human blood". jehovah's witnesses believe that receiving an infusion of human blood into their body's circulatory system is scientifically the exact same thing as eating or ingesting blood into their body's digestive system. paul gilles recent comments during this tragedy in which he compared injecting alcohol into one's veins (give me a break) to drinking alcohol proves that jws still believe what the watchtower society published back in 1951: "a patient in the hospital maybe fed through the mouth, through the nose, or through the veins. when sugar solutions are given intravenously it is called intravenous feeding. so the hospital's own terminology recognizes as feeding the process of putting nutrition into one's system via the veins. hence the attendant administering the transfusion is feeding the patient through the veins, and the patient receiving it is eating through his veins." -- the watchtower magazine, july 1, 1951. jehovah's witnesses refuse to acknowledge that when human blood is transfused into their body's circulatory system that the transfused human blood remains to be human blood and continues to function as human blood. jehovah's witnesses refuse to acknowledge that if blood is eaten, then the ingested blood enters the body's digestive system, where the blood would be treated by the body exactly the same as it would treat a hotdog, a potato chip, or any other food item. ingested blood would be completely digested and broken down into proteins, carbohydrates, fats, and waste; which are then either assimilated or excreted by the body. the watchtower society uses scriptures which speak about the blood of slaughtered animals to teach jehovah's witnesses that blood is "sacred" because blood is the "symbol of life". then, the watchtower society turns around and requires jehovah's witnesses to sacrifice their own "life" to maintain the alleged "sacredness" of a "symbol" of the very thing they are sacrificing -- their life. jehovah's witnesses refuse to acknowledge that the watchtower doctrine on blood moronically places a higher value on the symbol than it does on the thing symbolized. in fact, the old testament scriptures permitted the eating of unbled animal meat, which the bible treats exactly the same as eating animal blood itself. in isolated occasions, when humans needed to eat unbled meat in order to sustain their own human life, the mosaic law permitted such, but then required the eaters to fulfill the requirements of being "unclean" for a few days. thus, the bible recognized that the sustaining of human life was more "sacred" than maintaining the sacredness of animal blood. to do otherwise would be doing exactly what the moronic watchtower society does. it would make the symbol more sacred than the thing symbolized. in fact, the watchtower society is leading jehovah's witnesses to disobey god and violate the holy scriptures in one of the most serious ways possible. because humans were created in god's image, god considers human life sacred. a jehovah's witness who sacrifices their sacred life in order to maintain the sacredness of a symbol of that sacred life varies little from those who profane life by committing suicide. those jehovah's witness elders who teach and police this moronic doctrine vary little from common accessories to murder. the bible is fairly clear in how god views murder, and how he deals with murderers. this moronic twisting of scripture would be laughable if not for the fact that it has lead to the pointless deaths of numerous jehovah's witnesses in the past, and it will continue to lead to the pointless deaths of many more jehovah's witnesses in the future. the following website summarizes over 315 u.s. court cases and lawsuits affecting children of jehovah's witness parents, including 200+ cases where the jw parents refused to consent to life-saving blood transfusions for their dying children: divorce, blood transfusions, and other legal issues affecting children of jehovah's witnesses http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com

In both the United States and Canada, the general rule is that competent Jehovah's Witness ADULTS may choose to die rather than accept a life-saving blood transfusion. However, in both jurisdictions, the general rule is that Jehovah's Witness PARENTS are NOT allowed to make this same decision for their CHILDREN. The linked magazine article deals with an EXCEPTION to the general rule that JW CHILDREN will be given life-saving blood transfusions against their parents' wishes. That is the scenario when JW CHILDREN are of sufficient age, maturity, knowledge, etc. as to be legally labeled as "mature minors", who the courts will then permit to refuse blood transfusions. This magazine article discusses whether Canadian Courts, while in determining whether certain JW CHILDREN were "mature minors", or not, whether those Courts focused too much on the element of "competence", and not enough on the elements of "adequate information" and "lack of coercion". Before anyone (an adult or a "mature minor"), can legally give or refuse consent to medical treatment, three conditions must be met: competence, adequate information and lack of coercion. As pointed out in the article, Jehovah's Witnesses depend almost exclusively on the WatchTower Society for their information about the issue of blood transfusions. The article presents a whole host of reasons as to why the WatchTower Society is probably the world's worst source for accurate information on blood transfusions. Thus, how could JW adults, much less "mature minors", ever be adequately informed so as to be legally capable of giving informed consent? The article also briefly addresses the issue of "coercion". Jehovah's Witnesses practice disfellowshipping (excommunication) and shunning of any JW who consents to receiving a blood transfusion. Because of such, even JW adults are essentially coerced into refusing blood transfusions. Thus, how in the world could a child of JW parents ever make such a decision without being "coerced"? (moderator note: unapproved link removed)

the december 2006 issue of pediatrics and child health magazine contains an article entitled: "medical emergencies in children of orthodox jehovah's witness families". this article is co-authored by juliet guichon, a medical bioethicist at the university of calgary. this article is currently posted online in pdf format by the magazine publisher at: [color=#333399]http://www.pulsus.com/paeds/11_10/pdf/guic_ed.pdf note to moderators: this is not spam. bryan has indicated that educational links are permitted on this forum. this is a link to the publisher's website of a well respected industry magazine. the issue of jehovah's witnesses and blood transfusions has been repeatedly raise on this forum in a number of different threads. it only makes sense to post this article link in its own thread rather than try to post in a dozen different threads, or even only some of such threads, which could lead to its being missed by someone who is seeking info on this topic. thank you.

No, that is not correct. First, JWs do not believe they go to heaven, hell, or anywhere else when they die. See my earlier post. They simply believe that a person ceases to exist when they die. Later, at the biblical "resurrection", JWs believe they will be "replicated" (the new person is given the old "thought patterns" in a new body). JWs consider receiving a transfusion to be a "sin" only if the recipient willingly consents to such. Thus, if a court orders such, there is no "sin" on the part of the JW -- whether the JW is a baby, minor, or even in the few cases where adults were transfused against their will. A Moderator has told me to stop posting the link to the website which contains the ACTUAL UNITED STATES COURT DECISIONS, so I cannot do that. However, since JW Members are allowed to both post the names and links of their own JW websites, I will assume that I am allowed to at least post the name of the website which contains the ACTUAL COURT DECISIONS, and anyone interested can google for the link: DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES These ACTUAL UNITED STATES COURT DECISIONS show that while JW Adults are allowed to die rather than accept a blood transfusion, JW Parents are NOT allowed to make that same decision for their children barring unusual circumstances -- which again can be learned by reading the ACTUAL UNITED STATES COURT DECISIONS.

I don't have time right now to fully address why JWs are permitted to accept organ transplants, but not blood transfusions. Just let me say that when the Watchtower Society outlawed transfusions in 1945, it also prohibited transplants -- for the obvious reason that a living organ also contains the blood of the donor. However, the transplant prohibition was eventually dropped in either the 1960s or 1970s -- also for obvious reasons. Will come back.

The original poster asked whether JWs believe in cremation, and at least one comment above seemed to indicate that JWs do not, or prefer not, due to their religious beliefs. Actually, in recent years, more and more older JWs, who do their own funeral/burial planning, are choosing to be cremated. Such is often due to economic reasons. Many older JWs spent their lives in the door-to-door service of the group, preaching that "Armageddon" would occur at any time. Because they never had a career, and never expected to die, they now come to the end of their lives with few economic resources. In years past, for the same reasons, JWs were discouraged from having children, so many older JWs have no children who can help with such expenses. Actually, the religious beliefs of the JWs are quite in tune with "cremation". Christians believe that a "person" is composed of a soul/spirit housed in a fleshly body. The soul/spirit are the personality, intellect, and other factors that make a "person" a unique being. The fleshly body is merely the "vehicle" which allows the "person" to live on the earth. The soul/spirit survive death. Some go to "heaven" or "paradise". Some go to "hell". All will later be "resurrected" -- which is the rejoining of the soul/spirit with a "resurrection body" -- just as was Jesus Christ on the third day after His death at Calvary. However, JWs do NOT believe such. JWs do NOT believe that a "person" has a separate "soul". Instead, JWs believe that the definition of "soul" is "BODY + SPIRIT". That may not sound that different from Christians, except that JWs do NOT define "spirit" as do Christians. JWs do NOT believe that "spirit" is something unique, but rather that "spirit" is nothing more than the "life-force" (sometimes compared to electricity) used to invigorate the "body". The best way to understand the JW belief is to think of a human as an electrical appliance --like a radio. A body without spirit is like a radio without electricity -- useless. Adding spirit to the body equals "soul" -- just like a radio is useless without power. JWs say they believe in "resurrection", but they do NOT. JWs believe in REPLICATION. Since there is no soul/spirit containing the unique characteristics of a "person" to survive death, JWs simply believe at the "resurrection" that GOD "replicates" their previous "thought patterns", and puts those replicated thought patterns into a replicated body (not perfect, but rather imperfect). Thus, since JWs do not believe anything about their current "person" (body, nor soul, nor spirit) survives death, they really are not concerned about how their body is treated once they die. Therefore, CREMATION is acceptable, and often preferred.

This thread raises numerous different issues regarding JWs, so I will not try to address single one, unless someone asks. However, this thread also contains a number of misconceptions and inaccuracies which should not be relied on by a reader. I will briefly address a few of those in an abbreviated fashion, and if someone wants more info, I will try to come back and address such more fully. I will probably even have to use more than one post right now. First, (in no particular order), Mexarican's comments are completely inaccurate. The general rule is that most courts do intervene when JW Parents attempt to prevent their children from receiving life-saving blood transfusions. In some states, if the child is nearing the legal age of majority, a court may declare a child to be a "mature minor", and allow that child to choose to die rather than receiving the life-saving transfusion. Many, if not most, states have linked this issue with precedents set in abortion cases, and now allow pregnant JWs to refuse transfusions to the detriment of their unborn "fetuses" (aka "children").

Sorry, SMK1, but children whose Jehovah's Witness Parents are refusing to consent to a medically necessary blood transfusion are NOT all treated as adults whose individual whims are catered to. Different states have ruled differently depending whether the child is a "fetus", a minor, a mature minor, etc., plus there may be impacting circumstances. Thus, by reading and studying some of the actual court decisions will at least give a student a "feel" for a given scenario.

In previous posts, members of this forum who are Jehovah's Witnesses generically recommended to questioners that "state laws should be consulted regarding children of JWs who need blood transfusions." The following website contains summaries of over 200 such court cases dealing with blood transfusions and children of Jehovah's Witnesses. The summarized court cases are broken down by category: Minors, Mature Minors, Unborn Fetuses, Responsible Parents, Misc. WHY TAKE SOMEONE'S BIASED OPINION AS YOUR ANSWER, WHEN YOU CAN READ THE ACTUAL COURT DECISIONS? http://HTTP://JWDIVORCES.BRAVEHOST.COM The name of the website is: DIVORCE, BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS, AND OTHER LEGAL ISSUES AFFECTING CHILDREN OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES The section which contains summarized divorce cases can also shed light into how JW Parents interact with their children, which knowledge can sometimes be of use to health care providers.