neophyte

I used to work in Pharmac. research, and every once in a while a company would pay WELL over normal market value for time and services provided IF they were in a big rush to get things done. It happens, just not often.

So, the job market is kind of falling off in Denver, CO... where I live now. But.... I can take a job in any of the RN compact states... Where are the "hot," job markets right now... I just want to work! (Preferably nursing home, or hospitals that don't require recent hospital experience).

Hmmmm. I'm trying to give as few details as possible. There is a retalatory aspect to this... Somebody "killed the messenger," and that was me, now I'm out of work over this. It makes me sick. From the time the DON got caught, it was a week before I was fired. I had a stellar track record until then though. The order was not a cost based desicion, the DON decided on her own that the initial narcotics ordered were "too strong, for the patient."

So, I've worked in LTC in Colorado for a while now, but have just been hit with a doozy! My new D.O.N. decided that she was going to cancel orders for one narcotic and write orders for a completely different one. When the P.A. showed up and asked who cancelled his orders, I had to refer him to her. He complained to her about the need for her to follow his orders (not the other way around) for about 20 minutes but did not report the incident. Later, she started treating me like I was the one who turned her into him. Well, I did, but not because I wanted to!!! Within a week all my hard work at the home was for naught. I was fired for insubordination (I could barely look her in the eye, so it was partly my fault). I'm not going to take this lying down. No way!!! Who do I report her to though? The state surveyors that come to the home, the board of nursing? I only talked to one person about this so far, and they said my license might be in jeapardy. What?!? Any help is much appreciated.

OK, I thought I had this one down, but maybe not... When taking meds out of my med cart (at a nursing home), do I sign out meds when I pull them out, or after I actually give them... I always thought you were suppossed to wait until the patient took them before signing them out... Many thanks all, Neo.

muticollinarity. . . I was not replying to your post specifically, but you have my apologies for the miscommunication. As far as needing clarification I can only say that this post has been a mistake. By "is it worth it to work in the middle east" I meant is rooting yourself up from home and going to a foreign land worth it. The safety issues are not something I was concerned about. . . As I am certain you have seen there were some excellent posts regarding my original question (no matter how poorly worded) that gave a first hand account of what WORKING over there is like. Thanks for your time.

Thanks for the word wjfoo! If Banner wants to play games to intice people to come work for them. . . I'm not going. If I do take a job with them, I'll be certain to get as many "facts" as I can. . . shafting people out of promised money is one reason hospitals can be such hard places to work at! I'm on a track to become a hospital administrator and promise to not allow any deception to be going on at all. Transparency is the way to build trust, and with that trust we'll be able to ride out the tough times and enjoy the good ones that ensue. It takes about 10 years to take an average hospital and make it great. . . I've got a lot more time than that! And yes, new grads sometimes make more than seasoned folks. In the Human Resources trade it's called "salary compression" and it's part of a vicious circle of rising costs to patients. I'm actually seeking out the highest paying jobs, knowing full well that I am only HELPING TO CONTINUE A CYCLE OF ESCALATING WAGES. . . I freely admit that. I've joined the system because of the huge bills I have, but that's very temporary for me anyway! I have an offer to work using my degree, but it will put me at poverty level wages. . . I will literally not be able to pay my credit card debts (accumulated while getting my degree in health admin) and pay rent with that salary. So, even though I don't like it. . I'm going for the bucks right now. That means leaving the city and friends I love dearly. . . but guess what: There is a silver lining. I'll get to see more of the world while I'm at it, a chance to bring some home grown love to a new place, and eventually (in 2 years or less) I'll be ready to seek out a challenging job helping turn a regular hospital into one like Bronson in Missouri. . . it took them 10 years, BUT now they have some of the lowest turnover rates in the country and, OF COURSE, it's not all about the money. This forum is not the place to try and tell you what I learned in the last 2 years, but there ARE people out there that want to make quality health care at an affordable cost for everyone a reality. Sounds like a pipe dream, but like the man said .. . . I have a dream. So far in my life, all of my dreams have come true, my life threatening/debilitating wreck was just a bump in the road.

Thanks for the reply. Phoenix has a lower cost of living than the city I live in now, and I think I'd like living there. . . I guess I could have spelled that out before, but though y'all would just trust me on that one. Cali looks good, oh yes it does. Except for the super high cost of living... a lot of that extra money I could make goes right back into rent and stuff (just like NYC). I love Cali and NYC, but so far Phoenix is a hot spot for a multitude of reasons. (Besides, I don't have a family so I'll probably just rent out a room in someone's house to live on the cheap. Helps them pay the mortage and me save, save, save.) I've not looked into Hawaii, but that's a good idea too. I know the cost of living is super high out there too, but that kind of beauty would be worth it! Any your right, the answer to debt is not always more money. My personal finances are in great shape as far as credit rating and having saved up enough to buy a smaller house in just three years (all prior to my wreck). But, my wreck and ensuing medical bills just put me so far in the hole that I'm willing to take on a job where pay is a little closer to the top of the list instead of last. Seriously, if it's in nursing I will love what I'm doing, and if the hospital is safe to work at. . .

WOW. I thanked the Catlady and did a poor job of showing appreciation for her many other posts (I read old posts from folks to get a feel for their credibility and liked hers), and THEN made the mistake of pointing out that I thought she had made an error or two (including not reading far enough to see that I AM ready to work, but that I WAS injured serously years ago. And of course I thought the $90k salary was too good to be true. She indicated no hospitals she sought out were giving out bonuses in the Phoenix area, and I just wanted others looking in the area to know that they are. It's a forum, how someone could almost immediately take my comments as being so negative is easy to believe, but I thought the point of a nursing forum was to feel like I was chatting with friends and to feel welcome and to be welcoming to others. How my words were already so misinterpreted to the point where someone I have never met is "hoping" I don't end up near them is dissapointing however. Finally, I life in an "expensive" city myself. . . Phoenix IS special to me because the exhaustive research I've done at sites like Salary.com indicate strongly that the current cost of living in Phoenix is about 10% lower! If I make 60k or so in a year. . . that's another $6,000 bucks in my bank account to pay off bills. . . Sorry to get you wound up there Cat. . . I'm glad I won't be hearing from you just the same. (PS, I'm not arrogant, though I am self-confident. I do "fight" people that make hateful statements on my posts however.) allnurses has provided me some great information, including the importance of unions to nurses in many areas of the country. For those of you that work at hospitals that seek out things like Baldrige Awards: you KNOW there is an alternative to unions. As a recent graduate (summa cum laude) of a Health Adminstration program in Texas, I can tell you that there are some HUGE issues that are going to cause a slow but certain culture change in our industry. With enough time and a Herculian effort (not more money mind you) there are hospitals that are becoming great places to work for all concerned. I'm going for the big bucks right now so I can get out of debt and then turn around and work my tail off in administration to put control of patient care back where it belongs: the clinicians hands. Making work something to look forward to is very hard in our industry, but there are a handful of hospitals that are doing it already.)

Thanks for the help Catlady. I see you have a lot of posts on allnurses.com. . Thanks for the advice on long-term care paying more, but being that much harder to do. As I mentioned in my initial thread "I'm about 100% healthy again, and stopped whining about my accident before I even left my house/hospital bed I was stuck in there. . . so, I'm READY TO WORK, and I have a great attitude.." So, yes I am out of practice, but no my physical status should not be an issue. . . almost 100% means what it says: I can put in a full days work alongside the best of them (my "physical problems" are not that great. . .). And finally, NO just because one semi-anonymous person said I could make $90,000 in Phoenix is far from good reason to all of a sudden want to work there. Phoenix does seem to offer some VERY competative salaries, especially when you consider the cost of living index compared to other places I've looked at. Finally, I'm not at all sure where you've been looking, but I've found multiple bonus offers including a $40,000 payout over 5 years ($5,000 minimum for one year's work) at not 1 but 2 hospitals in the Phoenix area. That and they are offering "extra shift diffs" that put your wages double your hourly salary once you go into overtime hours. Here's part of the "ad" I received prior to posting in the AZ section of the allnurses forum: "Earn Up to $40,000 Retention Bonus - ($8,000 annually) for 5 years for ICU and Telemetry Staff ($25,000 over 5 year for all other nurses) OR Student loan repayment up to $40,000 for any nurse specialty. * Relocation Assistance Available * Extra Shift Incentive - Work an extra shift and get an extra shift differential of $12/hour + Overtime after 40hrs. * Next Day Pay - Get paid for your extra shift the next day - Need an extra $600 for the weekend? * Speak Spanish? - Get paid an extra for .75 cents/hr for translating * Tuition Reimbursement - $1250 / yr OR Full reimbursement is available with commitment. * Accrue up to 17 paid time off, 6 sick days, and 6 reserve sick days" We shall see just how valid the above comments are.. . but with a base salary of $24/hr for lower experienced RN's, it seems like a good offer. I have a phone interview next week, and will gladly post the two hospitals in the Phoenix area that make these claims once I have accepted/declined the position (which will be soon).

Hey all, thanks for the replies. If you've read this far down the thread and are considering helping me. . . please feel free to leave out any comments about how dangerous places outside the United States are if you would please. There are plenty of hateful people right here in the good 'ol USA that will mame/kill you just because you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. . . if you'll note the intitial post in this thread: I got run over by a careless (and uninsured) driver in the very "safe" city of Austin. That's life. The Middle East offers challenges, and does seem to have a higher ratio of people that don't appreciate people from the United States. But the haters are still a minority in this world. Showing the same compassion you would give to your own patients to everyone around the world might just slow some of that hatred down a bit. Right now, I just want to work hard, make some cash to get out of debt, and maybe spread some goodwill while I'm at it. Once I'm out of debt, I'll still be on the goodwill path. Putting myself in harms way happens everytime I leave my house, I learned that when I was involved in my accident with a careless driver. Helping people is why I got into nursing however; that fact that it is currently paying so well is a nice benefit. . but still very secondary to why I got in the profession. I don't expect a lot of people to understand this: but I got into nursing to take care of people and for no other reason. I'm not co-dependent, I have no family to care for, and I think that anywhere nursing services are needed is where I belong. Some of those places might be dangerous because of the color (or lack of color) of my skin, but I'm not going to stop helping people in need no matter where they are. . . as long as those in need appreciate my care/services and remember me for that and only that. Thank you. R.

Too many Islamofacists? Maybe if we can get past sophomoric name calling and start seeing other people as what they are: human beings just like us. . .

I'm hearing some of the highest salaries in the country are in Phoenix right now. .. If anyone working there knows of referal bonuses with Banner (Anywhere in AZ). . . I'd be willing to split it with you if you are eligible and I end up accepting a job there. . . I might have some direct questions about just how good a facility you work at is (moral, training, safety record). . . but considering that would only take a few minutes and how much referal bonuses are. . .:wink2:

Hey all, I was a member here on allnurses before and received a lot of great advice that led me to getting a job with Johns Hopkins Hospital. Back then I was in it for all the right reasons, and still feel like I am, but money has become a serious issue. . . 2 weeks before I was supposed to leave for Johns Hopkins, I was run over by a very careless, and very unisured truck driver. The bills were tremendous, and I've not worked in three years second to being bedridden for 5 months, and a host of long lasting injuries sustained in the wreck. Still, I went back to school and got a degree in Health Administration (graduated with highest honors) and already have a couple of years of Med/Surg experience as an RN. I'd like to pay off my medical /school debts, which are huge and then go into LTC. So. . . is kind of like I'm a new grad again, but I am looking to totally maximize my earnings potential by moving the WHERE EVER I CAN MAKE THE MOST MONEY IN A reasonably SAFE ENVIRONMENT. I'm single, very mobile, and have been rehabed enough to handle anything but Med/Surg again. Any suggestions. . . Are there some cities that are just paying that much more than others? Is the Middle East still worth it? I'm thinking travel nursing, but I need experience in a specialty area first right? Any suggestions? Please/thank you. . . (PS, I'm about 100% healthy again, and stopped whining about my accident before I even left my house/hospital bed I was stuck in there. . . so, I'm READY TO WORK, and I have a great attitude...) I was looking at LTC in Texas, but at $18/HR I can't even pay rent/bills! LTC is my long-term goal though. . . someday I would like to build my own nursing home that utilizes the Eden Alternative Principles. Thanks again. R.

Debate Topic. For a class, not the real world. I will admit that I am glad I am not debating you yourself. Re: the argument not holding water. I am well aware that the argument does not hold water and that not only you, other nurses in general, and the ANA, but the American Public agree as well. As duly noted in the 1974 revision of the Taft-Hartley Act. That does not prevent the assignment listed in my original thread from being assigned. Therefore, the argument may not hold water, but as long as I can spread that water around in an articulate, concise and readily accessible manner (or better yet, in a obfuscatory, confounding manner) I still have half a leg to stand on in a classroom debate. Thank you for the link you provided earlier. That said, I am working under the notion that until you are ready to argue for the other side, your not prepared to argue for either

Does this help at all? The question is rhetorical in that, yes, your comments give me more to work with. The fact that they are fragile arguments because of their near indefensible position is of little import: they are enough to aid me in a debate, however irrational, set in a classroom. I forgot to say, THANK YOU. Thank You.

I used the above quote because I am a Paramedic/RN and have seen both sides of the issue too many times. It took me several months as a young medic to learn to slow down to the pace of non-emergency patients, who require not only careful handling, but an incredible sense of patience. I had never had interactions with the sick or elderly before in my life, other than the occassional meal with a relative. After being called out on a 911 emergency, rolling code three through busy traffic and getting all our equipment up to the floor in the quickest time possible: it was very easy to be overly excited when you find a patient that probably could have gone by cab, had someone been able to go with them. It takes a few minutes to come down from the adrenalin rush it took to arrive quickly and safely. Add to the this the fact that the caregiver, and possibly even the patient are excited/agitated themselves, and you have a recipe for disaster if cooler heads don't prevail. You can tell people this all day, but until your faced with the situation, you are not going to know how you are going to act. It is something newer ambulance staff learn by experience. Perhaps, when you see things are going poorly, a comment such as, "ok, let's all take a breath here. . . . . ", can help everyone calm down and handle a non-emergency as a non-emergency. The more positive interactions you have on non-emergencies, the better things will go when critically timed, life and death patients are involved, you could actually save a life because you interact so well with the next link in the chain of care. There are many other issues surrounding ambulances and standing healthcare facilities, especially nursing homes. For example, was only over the course of many months of working with a new ambulance service that I found out just how adversly an ambulance rolling up to a nursing home - with lights and sirens blaring - can affect many of the residents of that home. Seeing us in the hallway with a stretcher full of ALS equipment beeping and flashing does not help in the matter either. It can all be very disconcerting to the patients, who fear for their own lives, and those of their friends/neighbors. This in turn probably causes the staff of the facility to have to "calm down" all the patients who have now reached a point of uncomfortable distress. And they are not even the ones going to the hospital. After a time, some of the nursing homes we interacted started asking us NOT to roll up with lights and sirens whenever possible, to shut them down a block or so away. It proved to be a real benifit for all involved. Little issues like this are the grains of sand that keep the wheels of interaction from running smoothly. If you still find yourself having problems with EMS'rs, perhaps you should try and figure out what the problem is, and if you do, have your administrator create a list of things you think would help your staff interact with EMS staff and then send it to the EMS agencies that service your facility. A carefully worded olive branch can go a long way. You've taken the first step by asking the question, and you have plenty of reponses, now its up to you. Common sense, patience and a willingness to work together may save you from having many bad days, the added benifit being that the person who seems to be ruining your days, is probably having the same problems you are. In the end, you both win. You might not end up with worldwide peace, but it can help bring peace to your world.

I am an RN coping with a recent debilitating run in with a careless/drunk driver and have returned to college in order to find a new career path. Which finds me doing some intersting assignments. This question is posed only as a debate topic for a college level class. It is an assignment that I did not want, I hate it, I cannot change it, it is an assignment I must complete as written on the title line "Should it be illegal for nurses to unionize in non-profits (not for profit hospitals). While I would rather be catching up on CEU's during spring break, I find myself spending the last few days in the library working on this arcane term paper. However, when I am in a good mood, I see it as the challenge that it is, and welcome it - becuase it can only help me to prepare for what I will face when I graduate: a lot of tough questions from healthcare professionals. I have had little trouble finding info on unions, and non-profits, but am having real trouble finding info on whether or not is should be considered illegal. ANY help from the forum on ideas or places to look would be GREATLY appreciated. ANY ARGUMENT AGAINST NURSES UNIONIZING WILL HELP. I have come up with one argument FOR it, and that is the (so called) patient abandonment issue (for example, in the case of a strike). I still need at least five more reasons to argue that RN's and other healthcare professionals should NOT unionize (ESPECIALLY in the NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR). That is a big part of what is making this topic so hard, trying to differentiate between not for profit and for profit and why it should make a difference. I have read that the Health Care Amendments of 1974 expanded coverage of Taft-Hartley Act (not exactly a pro-union act of legislation) to include non-profit, private health care facilities, which makes this even harder. Some of the answers I expect to receive may be general in nature, or based on historical evidence (I have READ some anti-union rhetoric that unionizing may demean certain types of professionals, making them look like "common laborers"). Thanks for the time. In reality, any suggestions on why it SHOULD be legal are almost as helpful, all I have to do is reverse the argument. Finally, as healthcare professionals, we need to be able to look at diverse topics such as this one, even if it seems ludicrous, and come up with articulate answers - it is part of being faced with challenges and being able to overcome them. Most of all, to be able to argue for the "wrong side" of an issue, means you obviously have a complete understanding of the entire issue you dealing with, and can therefore argue your side even better. That said, I welcome private emails on this subject. Thank you, R.A. RN

OK, here comes the shouting: THIS IS A THEORETICAL QUESTION, STOP HERE IF YOU CAN'T TAKE YOURSELF OUT OF THE REAL WORLD AND DEAL WITH POSSIBILITIES. WHAT THE REAL ARGUMENT SHOULD BE IS NOT THE POINT, THIS IS FOR A CLASSROOM DEBATE TOPIC, THAT'S IT. IF YOU FEEL YOU ARE UP TO THE TASK OF REASONING THROUGH THE UNREASONABLE - PLEASE DO SO NOW, AND PUT IN YOUR TWO CENTS. Thank you. I am an RN coping with a recent debilitating run in with a careless/drunk driver and have returned to college in order to find a new career path. Which finds me doing some intersting assignments. This question is posed only as a debate topic for a college level class. It is an assignment that I did not want, I hate it, I cannot change it, it is an assignment I must complete as written on the title line "Should it be illegal for nurses to unionize in non-profits (not for profit hospitals). While I would rather be catching up on CEU's during spring break, I find myself spending the last few days in the library working on this arcane term paper. However, when I am in a good mood, I see it as the challenge that it is, and welcome it - becuase it can only help me to prepare for what I will face when I graduate: a lot of tough questions from healthcare professionals. I have had little trouble finding info on unions, and non-profits, but am having real trouble finding info on whether or not is should be considered illegal. ANY help from the forum on ideas or places to look would be GREATLY appreciated. ANY ARGUMENT AGAINST NURSES UNIONIZING WILL HELP. I have come up with one argument FOR it, and that is the (so called) patient abandonment issue (for example, in the case of a strike). I still need at least five more reasons to argue that RN's and other healthcare professionals should NOT unionize (ESPECIALLY in the NOT FOR PROFIT SECTOR). That is a big part of what is making this topic so hard, trying to differentiate between not for profit and for profit and why it should make a difference. I have read that the Health Care Amendments of 1974 expanded coverage of Taft-Hartley Act (not exactly a pro-union act of legislation) to include non-profit, private health care facilities, which makes this even harder. Some of the answers I expect to receive may be general in nature, or based on historical evidence (I have READ some anti-union rhetoric that unionizing may demean certain types of professionals, making them look like "common laborers"). Thanks for the time. In reality, any suggestions on why it SHOULD be legal are almost as helpful, all I have to do is ATTEMPT TO reverse the argument. Which can be very difficult. Finally, as healthcare professionals, we need to be able to look at diverse topics such as this one, even if it seems ludicrous, and come up with articulate answers - it is part of being faced with challenges and being able to overcome them. Most of all, to be able to argue for the "wrong side" of an issue, means you obviously have a complete understanding of the entire issue you dealing with, and can therefore argue your side even better. That said, I welcome private emails on this subject. Thank you, R.A. RN