bubba

ufmatt, I don't think that the number of seats or number of CRNA schools will increase drastically in the near future. As for the boat loads of people woth are planning of becoming CRNAs, the compitition will get stiffer. Just my opinion. alansmith52, Just wanted to ask, what does "katotohanan, katotohanan" mean?

This was posted on studentdoctor.net by kmiska, I thought it was very good: I've been watching this debate over the last few days and finally have decided to put in my two cents worth. First of all, I am not a doctor (at least not the medical sort I have a PhD) nor a nurse, so let's just say I'm an impartial third party. Let me just say that following this debate has been entertaining to say the least, but surprising as well. I have been pleasantly surprised at the eloquence and the intelligence of some of the nurses that have posted their replies on this thread. On the other hand I was unpleasantly surprised to see the bitter, unbending, and sometimes even hateful nature of some of the posts made by doctors or soon to be doctors. Goodness,. I guess spending thousands of dollars on med school certainly does not teach politeness, common sense, or the ability to listen to others' point of view. The interesting thing here is that these doctors are the ones who "listen" to patients and make important decisions that patient's life or death. Pretty darn scary. I n of the post "drfeelgood" points out that doctors need to make the public see that services of the CRNA are not as good as those provided by the MDA. Well, I can tell you that I am one of the public and I am not so convinced that I would let any of these doctors touch me with a ten foot pole. In one of the posts "Klebsiella" says that he will not look at research published by the association of CRNAs because it's not worth looking at. And I guess that Klebsiella has the knowledge (or at least thinks he/she does) to make that decision. Geez, not only is he a doctor but he has the ability to make judgements on things he/she refuses to look at. Gosh I wish I was that smart or maybe it's just telepathy. Also klebsiella believes that "Nurses in general, and CRNA's in particular lack the understanding and wisdom behind their actions" Actually based on their "prose" I believe that Mr. McHugh understands most of what he's doing far far better than klebsiella. And how exactly might klebsiella know what nurses know and don't know. He must know everything that goes on in CRNA schools and hospitals to make statements like that. Sadly, I believe that some of these folks will have some catching up to do in the real world to do. It's a nasty world out there especially if you're an unpleasant know-it-all. I also found the post made by Hopkins 2010 very intriguing. Especially this part "Since there is no hard evidence one way or the other, could it be possible that you don't really need an MD to do anesthesia" I was wondering that myself yesterday. I was thinking more the lines of a plumber....who certainly knows how to fix leaky faucets but I don't think he knows much about fluid dynamics, he does get paid pretty well and he could care less about the theory. I suspect that there is a point here. I know I know all the doctors will scream, "what about that 1:5000 chance that something strange comes up, a nurse can't deal with that" but I suspect that neither would a doctor. That is the nature of things which are rare. Most of the time when a problem is not common it has to be looked up or researched. Most of us don't remember facts about things that we may encounter once a decade. Or perhaps Mr. K your memory is soooo good after memorizing all your books that you can remember every disorder, even the ones that only 5 people in Alaska have. Sure. I even have a personal vignette to share with you. About 10 years ago I got sick. I was throwing up, running a fever, couldn't sleep eat, just generally miserable. So I went to the doctor, she said I had the stomach flu, I said OK and went home. However, after 4 weeks of feeling like crap I was suspecting that something else was up, but my doctor (after about 5 visits) still insisted I had the flu. Finally, my husband said this is bull***t and took me to the ER. There I found out that instead of the flu I had a collapsed lung. After almost losing my lung (since it was collapsed for a month), two weeks in the hospital and a surgery, I was much better. I had a congenital cyst that expanded very slowly and collapsed the lung over a period of 10 years. I thought about suing the doctor but I didn't. What really shocked was how my doctor would not listen to me, when I said something is seriously wrong here. Why couldn't she look up what else it might be, or realize that this was over her head, or maybe do something dramatic like listen to my chest. This is an example of a RARE case. Did my doctor with all her understanding of pathophysiology see that something was really wrong. Maybe the clue that I couldn't sleep could have tipped her off that I was hypoxic. But the bottom line is that she could not diagnose the rare case, could you? On the other hand if I went to a nurse practitioner, would this diagnosis have been made more quickly, because she would have realized after a couple weeks that this may be something more complex....of course I could speculate forever. However, don't think that four years of med school makes you all knowing. It doesn't, if anything it should teach you how little you actually know and how you will have to rely on others for help. Now, you're probably all pissed off that someone who is not an MD or "MD to be" posted on this site. But hopefully, some you can take what I said to heart. Thanks

nrw 350, You stated something to the effect that a bad nurse could ruin all the good work of a doctor. I just want to let you know that a bad doctor can ruin all of the work of a good nurse as well. The nursing staff spends most of the time with the patient. Sometimes, a nurse will realize that a particular treatment is not good for a patient just because the nurse has spent more time with the patient and may know the patient's condition or progress in respose to current treatment better. After discussion, the doctor refuses to cancle the treatment. Maybe it is one of those doctors that think nurses are stupid and don't know anything. This is one of the bad doctors. Also,there are times when a good nurse will not carry out a doctors orders because they are grossly inappropriate, unsafe, or even harmful to the patient. Remember, doctors treat diseases. Nurses treat people and their response to disease. Nurses are the patient's advocate. One of the main goal of nursing is to help restore a patient to an optimal health status. One of the main goal of doctors is to eliminate diseases. Sometimes these goals are at odds with each other. For example, a patient has a serious infection. The doctor orders a high powered antibiotic which is supposed to be the most effective antibiotic available for this infection. The nurse who will be giving this antibiotic has never given it before, so he/she looks it up in a drug book. The drug book says that the antibiotic is contraindicated for patients with poor renal function. The nurse reviews the patient's chart and discovers that the patient lab indicates poor renal function. The nurse questions the patient and finds out that the patient has even had dialysis before due to kidney failure in the past. So, the nurse appropriately holds the medication, calls the doctor to discuss the problem with the doctor and recieves a new order for an antibiotic that will work, but is not toxic to the kidneys. You see, the first antibiotic ordered by the doctor was the best for that particular infection/disease, but it was not best for the patient. Beeing a good nurse, he/she identified this problem. The nurse is the patient advocate. There are good nurses and bad nurses. There are good doctors and bad doctors. When you get a nurse that hates doctors or a doctor that thinks nurses are stupid, you had better put on your seat belt. It takes both good nurses and good doctors, as well as others, working together as a team to provide optimal health care. The health care team!

I thought about going to med school, but I want a life. I do not want to live to work, I want to work to live.

One thing I have noticed is that some of those "jokers" on the student doctor forum seem to be avoiding the real questions by trying to find irrelevent flaws in the logic of a post that may otherwise raise a valid point, or question. They also state that their intention is not to offend you, but then they do it indirectly by making comments about your argument or your education or whatever............Hummm seems passive aggressive to me.

What is the difference in an anesthesiology resident's training and a CRNA's training?

Kevin, Well written. What will your first book be about? You have a gift. Use it.

For those who want to follow the discussions on the student doctor.net here is a quick to the specific thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001987 You may have to copy and paste to your address bar. By the way. I liked your post on that thread meandragonbrett. Espically the information on CRNAs from the AANA.

For those who want to follow the discussions on the student doctor.net here is a quick to the specific thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001987 You may have to copy and paste to your address bar. By the way. I liked your post on that thread meandragonbrett. Espically the information on CRNAs from the AANA.

Good Post. I think these people (residents) just want to keep anyone other than a M.D. from making a decent salary in health care. I think it is also a power issue. They don't want anyone else in health care making more money than they do. Poor residents! I bet they are struggling to make ends meet in their residency and are ticked off that someone that doesn't have MD behind their name is making more than they are. I am really ticked off and sad that one of them called nurses dumb. You will never see one of them doing pt care. Who take care of the patients? not the residents or the doctors. It is the Nurses! Who catches the resident's/doctors orders for medications that the patients are allergic to ? I'm wondering. What do anesthesiology residents learn in their residencies? How many cases do they do before they complete their residency? And about the knowledge base issue, CRNAs do not need to know how to diagnose STD's etc. in order to practice asnesthesia. Their learning is specific to what they practice. They learn what they need to know to practice anesthesia safely and efficiently. Do anesthesiologist use all of the information that they learned in medical school to practice anesthesia? What do they learn in an anesthesiology residency that a CRNA doesn't learn in CRNA school? I'm not saying that they do not learn more than a CRNA, but if they do, I want to know what. And if nurses are so dumb, why is it that in many rural hospitals CRNAs are the only providers of anesthesia? Do the surgeons who oversee them know more about anesthesia than CRNAs? I doubt it.

A full suction container with nice green and yellow slimy chunks! Once a trach patient squirted a little saline in his trach, and then blew out a big sloppy glob across the room. makes me want to vomit just thinking about it.. bubba

Kevin, Thanks for the reply. I have another question. I know some CRNA's have a deal with the military or with an anesthesia group before they go to school. What about those who don't? Where is the best place to start looking for a position after getting out of CRNA school? bubba

Hi everyone, I'm new to this site and I really like it. All of the tips and info is great. I graduated with a BS in Biology, then went on to get my AS in Nursing. From what I can tell, I can apply for CRNA school even though I do not have a Bachelors in Nursing, because biology is a closely related field. I graduated 6yrs ago with my Nursing degree and 8 years ago with my Biology degree. Also I still need ICU experience. By the time I get a couple of years experience in ICU, it will have been 10 years since finishing my first degree. Will this pose a problem for me getting into CRNA school?