1911guy

In most states psych NPs can do therapy in private practice. In most states someone with only an MA in psych cannot do therapy (or anything else) in private practice. You need to go on to a doctorate in psychology to be licensed as a psychologist. At the MA level there are a few options. Very few states (maybe two or three) allow masters level psychology grads to work in therapy and other areas in private practice. Several let masters level school psychologists to be licensed as school psychologists for private practice. However, most require additional schooling (60cr as opposed to the 36-48cr in most MA programs) and a year of post-MA supervised experience then you can get licensed as a counselor or marriage and familly therapist in order to work in private practice. If you are already a nurse and want the fastest route to being a therapist in private practice becoming a psych NP is probably the best way to go. If you aren't already an RN, then you may want to consider psych or counseling. 60 credits can be done in two years if you aren't working and /or take summer school (or if you like insane semesters). With the counseling or MFT credential most states allow at least some testing as well as therapy. But, becoming a psych NP is another way to the same ends (minus the testing) and if you are an RN it will probably be the more sensible route, unless you want to go on to become a psychologist (in which case it can still be helpful, just not as good as psych or counseling).

Well, why do you want to serve? If you want to serve your country and/or community there are other options. Have you looked into the uniformed branch of the Public Health Corps? It is a uniformed service with military organization and benefits- and you may get to serve with the Coast Guard. Do the civilian branch of the Public Health Corps and you still get to serve underserved areas and make a real contribution. Get involved with the local volunteer fire department. Check out to see if your state has a State Guard or Defense Force (a unpaid, volunteer, military style civil defense organization- most have a real need for healthcare professionals). If you want/need the benefits, there are also other options. Check with local hospitals. Maybe get a job as a CNA while working and get them to help pay for the last of school. Maybe you can get loan repayment in exchange for a minimum time period on your contract. Again, check with the Public Health Corps. There are other options if the military doesn't work out. Also, make sure you double check on my suggestion about if you can control your headaches without meds. There may be a minimum time period, and some conditions may perminantly disqualify you even if you only USED to need meds but don't currently (I'm not sure, I never really had to know much about this area).

If something I've said is incorrect please let me know but I'm pretty sure I got it right (oh, and I do agree that talking to a Healthcare Recruiter is a good idea). It is true I've never served as an Army Nurse. I'm not a Nurse (though I have considered it as an alternative to getting my doctorate in psychology), I am a future clinical psychologist. I did serve in the Army Reserves about a decade and a half ago and I try to keep up on current military issues. I said that most Army healthcare assets are in the Reserve Components. I'm pretty sure that is still true. I know after the post-Cold War draw down many fields- healthcare, Military Police, Civil Affairs, Psych Ops, etc. became mostly Reserve. I do know that after some of the issues over the past 5 years with the wars in Afganistan and Iraq the Army has tried to remedy that somewhat but my understanding is that it is still largely the case (next time I see him I'll double check with a buddy who is an Army doctor to be sure). With most personnel in these areas being in the Reserves and Guard it is pretty much impossible to keep up a war (let alone two) without calling up significant Reserve assets. I said it is possible one may spend more active duty time as a Reservist/Guardsman than if they went Active Duty to begin with. While that isn't the case for everyone, it isn't a couple isolated incidents either. Consider that a Reserve/Guard unit can be called up for 18 months at a time (and many have been). Consider that many units and individuals have already done 2 tours (some Reservists have done more). Consider that on the enlisted end one can sign up for a 2 year Active Duty commitment while enlisted the standard Reserve/Guard commitment is 6 years. It is quite easy to see how a person can end up with more active time as a Reservist than some on Active Duty. Now, granted, for nurses with a 3 year active duty commitment it may be a little harder for a Reservist to be called up a couple times and end up with equal or greater active time than an Active Duty nurse, but it isn't impossible. If you were referring to the benefits I mention, check this link: http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/nurse/corps_benefits.jsp I think serving in the military is a wonderful thing. I think serving one's country and community in the Guard is commendable. Heck, I'm not really trying to discourage anyone from joining- if my fiance allows (she was an Air Force brat growing up and has made it clear she doesn't want to have to live again with the worry that a loved one may be deployed) I plan to re-enter the Reserves as a psychologist once I'm done with graduate school. However, I think people need to know what they may be getting into (I joined to serve, one of my biggest pet peeves were people who seemed to join solely for the college money/skills training/VA benefits/fill in the blank- you are there to serve your country and you may easily be called to war, Reserves, Guard or Active).

My understanding is that generally anything that you currently need to take meds to control will disqualify you from enlistment/commissioning in any of the services (anything- migraines, blood pressure, depression, ADHD, etc.). If you can get it under control without meds and go a certain period of time without meds you may want to talk to a recruiter again then. Basically, if you need meds to control it you can't join, but most of the same conditions wouldn't be cause for a discharge if the need for meds developed after you were already in.

I'm not currently in the military and I've never been a military nurse but I hope I can help a little. Most of the Army's healthcare assets (docs, nurses, psychologists, social workers, everything) is Reserve component (Army Reserve and National Guard). They have some in the Active Duty Army but the majority of their personnel in these areas are Reserves/NG. What that means is it is not possible for the Army to run a war without a significant number of medical personnel to be called up from the Reserves and NG. If you join the Guard as a nurse my guess is you will be called up at least once during your contract. In fact, the Reserve components require a longer commitment than Active Duty. With the initial active duty for training and the likelihood of a call up, you may also want to consider Active service if serving interests you. As an Active Duty nurse you know you'll be active for your time in, but you may not spend much more active time than the Reserves or Guard in today's environment and at least you will know what the time period will be. You probably won't be sent overseas for any more time than the Reserves/NG. I don't want to discourage you. Quite the opposite, I think military experience is very important and very valuable. However, don't fool yourself into thinking you won't be called up. It is a great honor to serve your country and your community. The benefits are incredible (in addition to pride of service the Army Nurse Corps have some incredible benefits- sign on bonuses, loan repayment, etc really add up). Just be aware that it is serious business (I'm sure you are).

Mark, Serving as a combat medic with the infantry, especially during wartime? Any respect I already had for your service just jumped about 10 fold. I understand your thoughts of becoming a nurse and going back to "finish" your time (I guess I understand what you are saying as getting your 20 years). If I lose about 80lbs I may well give it another try (I am about to turn 36, the cut off for the Reserves and Army NG is now 39). I'd go as a mental health specialist or possibly wait until after grad school, but it is rather unlikely (my ankle wouldn't take it at 19 and in the best condition of my life so I doubt it would now, plus my soon to be fiancee was an Air Force brat and is 100% opposed to her husband being deployed like her dad was so it would be off if I joined). Still, there is a sense of duty that even the slightest exposure to the military seems to often instill. PTSD? Hmm, the current fighting and the likelihood of PTSD from this style of warfare is actually what had me considering trying again. If you choose not to go back in the Army would you consider the VA? Even privately there are plenty of opportunities for this specialty unfortunately. In addition to combat PTSD there is an awful lot from other causes (usually abuse). The psych hospital has a trauma unit with many people (mostly women) with PTSD and my unit (Eating Disorders) sees a lot of them too. If you are looking for the fastest route to becoming a therapist/counselor have you thought about social work? It pays a little less than most other options but there are a ton of jobs, you can do about 80-90% of what a psychologist does, and it is only a 2 year masters program. Have you considered medical school? If you want to prescribe it is the most sure-fire option (100% independence under all states' laws). If you really want the prescription option you probably should consider med school or NP (though like you said, the MSN programs that admit without an RN are a consideration). Who knows how far or fast the move for prescription privileges for psychologists will go. Some psychologists actually go on after their doctorate to get an MSN to be NPs so they can prescribe (they primarily work as psychologists, the NP is strictly for the prescription privileges).

My post addressed both Ph.D. and Psy.D. programs so that may not have helped. Let me try to clarify and expand on psychology doctorate programs MA preferences. Ph.D. programs in clinical psych are extremely competitive. Many (about 20%) will even count an MA in psychology as a negative (as strange as that sounds) and strongly prefer BA/BS psychology students as the entry level. Almost all of the other programs will look at an MA or consider it neutral, but usually require a BA/BS in psychology as a minimum (with some taking an MA in psychology along with a bachelors in another area as a substitute). Almost all Ph.D. programs in clinical psych will make a person with an MA in psychology start from scratch so certainly a non-psych but related masters (education, nursing, social work, etc) will gain a person no advanced standing whether it is considered for admissions or not. Ph.D. programs in other psych areas (including counseling psych and school psych which are very closely related to clinical psych) and Psy. D. programs in clinical psychology are a lot more MA friendly (some Ph.D. programs in counseling psych require an MA first) and also will often look more favorably on an MA in a related area. Some of these programs look very favorably for admissions towards an MA in any related area (including nursing, and not always psych nursing). However, usually for advanced standing (if offered at all, which often isn't the case) an MA in psychology or counseling is required. Also, even these programs will always prefer a BA or MA in psychology or counseling (counseling sometimes limited as a preference to counseling psych programs) over a BA and MA in a related field (the exception being school psychology programs which will look almost as favorably on a degree in education as they will a degree in psychology). The only state I knew of was New Mexico. Someone here said Louisiana also allows it, but I wasn't aware of this.Additionally, the military has successfully had psychologists with prescription privileges since 1994 (first as a trial program which I believe has been expanded), and South Africa has had it for some time with no problems. Over the past few years several states have introduced bills to allow it including: AK, CA, IL, FL, NH, OR, WY, HI, TX, GA. Indiana has passed a law allowing psychologists involved in a federal government sponsored training or treatment program to prescribe. I'm not sure if regulations have been written and the law implemented yet though. Yes, the AMA is strongly against it, as they were psychologists even being allowed to practice therapy. For decades the AMA fought long and hard to prevent the states from licensing psychologists for professional practice. Today, I think very few people would argue that psychologists as professional providers of mental health services has been anything but an asset to patients and clients. The AMA is opposed, but they don't always win (many other non-physician professionals can prescribe, and most came with the AMA's strong opposition and predictions of dire consequences) and the APA (the American Psychological Association) is fighting just as hard. I don't hear anyone saying it is no big deal. Can I guess from this wording that your personal take is that psychologists aren't qualified to prescribe and that psychologists and psychology students pushing for it consider meds to be "not a big deal"? First, this certainly wouldn't be the first time a non-physician profession was given prescription privileges. Podiatrists and optometrists not only can prescribe within their specialties but they can perform surgery. Some chiropractors can prescribe and perform medical procedures like x-rays and in some states can prescribe some medication. NPs and PAs can prescribe, and in some states they don't require supervision or even consultation with a physician. Many psychologists already work in consultation with physicians and collaborate on medication issues. Nine states (CA, CT, DC, FL, IL, MA, OK, TX and UT) currently recognize such consultation to be within the official scope of practice for psychologists. Psychologists certainly already possess a high level of education on mental illness, physiological aspects of mental illness, and psychopharmacology. At minimum it requires 4 years of graduate level coursework plus a one year internship to get the doctorate (many programs due to the amount of coursework and research requirements take an average of 6-7 years to complete). Included in this coursework are classes on psychopharmacology and the physiology of mental illness. While in school, often after, psychologists do research, including research on psychopharmocology. To be licensed a psychologist has to have an understanding of the symptoms of common physical as well as mental illnesses, they need an understanding of psychophysiology and psychopharmacology and they need to know the behavioral and cognitive effects of common drugs (not just psychotropic medications but most commonly prescribed meds)- think about it, someone licensed to diagnose and treat mental illness and psychological issues needs to be able to determine if the symptoms may be a psych problem or a side effect of a med or symptom of a physical illness. Many psychologists already take additional coursework in these areas, fellowships in these areas, or post-doc masters degrees in psychopharmacology or physiology. The fact that over 3000 psychologists are currently teaching in medical schools, including courses on psychopharmacology, shows that even physicians recognize that psychologists have some competence in the field. Psychologists already prescribe in South Africa, the US territory of Guam, New Mexico and the US military (I'm not sure if the military program is still in the test phase or if all psychologists who meet certain criteria are qualified to do so) with no resulting problems. Psychology as a profession is pushing for prescription privileges, but only for psychologists who meet certain criteria. Specifically, the APA is pushing for legislation that requires 5 years experience as a professional psychologist, a current license as a psychologist, and advanced training in psychopharmocology including training in: Neuroscience, Clinical and Research Pharmacology and Psychopharmacology, Physiology and Pathophysiology, Physical and Laboratory Assessment, and Clinical Pharmacotherapeutics. Additionally, the legislation they are pushing would require a practicum for the psychologist seeking prescription privileges in which he/she would be required to see at least 100 patients before they could independently prescribe. So, a 5-7 year Psy.D. or Ph.D. which includes coursework and competency in psychopharmocology and psychophysiology, 5 years of professional psychological experience, and then an additional 1-3 years of psychopharmocology education with a practicum shouldn't be enough to qualify a professional to prescribe? If so, prescription privileges for NPs, PAs, podiatrists, and optometrists should be reconsidered.

Thank you for your sevice. I joined out of high school but unfortunately I had a bad ankle that caused me to be unable to pass the run (short by 17 seconds) and I was discharged after basic training. Oh well. I have the greatest respect for military service. How long were you in? How old are you? If you are my age (30s) or older you may simply want to go the fastest route. If you are in your 20s I suggest going the way that would make you the happiest regardless of time. If your life goal includes the Psy.D. you may want to pursue it, if that is really what you want would you be happy with something else? (That's one of the reasons I decided against the alternatives I've considered, including RN then PMHNP). As for the PMHNP being more secure, that isn't necessarily so. There is a nursing shortage so most MSNs will never have a problem with jobs. Depending upon your psychological specialty that may or may not be the case with psychologists. While I've never heard of any having to spend time in the unemployment line, the job search for many clinical or counseling psychologists may be longer and more frustrating, especially since some jobs will also consider LCSWs or LCPCs often for lower pay (I'm using MD terminology for licensed social workers and counselors). However, some areas of psychology are every bit as secure as nursing. If you take coursework in the right areas and an internship in the schools and get certified as a school psychologist you will never be unemployed unless you want to spend time without a job. School psychologists are part of the special education team and with special ed services being federally mandated these programs tend not to get cut, and often have increased budgets, even during the leanest times. Also, there is a current school psych shortage in addition to an increasing need for their services. The employment picture is quite rosy for psychologists who are qualified (either primarily or secondarily) as school psychologists. Depending upon the school district, some are paid on the teacher scale (OK, but not great) but some are paid on their own scale or the administators scale (it isn't unheard of for even MA level school psychologists to be looking at starting salaries over $50K). You can also tailor your clinical specialty (either your specialty such as geriatrics or child psych, or your primary mode of therapy like family therapy or cognitive therapy types) to take into account current trends and needs in the field. Flexibility of a Psy.D. is every bit as good as with a Ph.D. in practice areas. With a doctorate (whether Ed.D., Ph.D. or Psy.D.) in clinical, counseling, or school psychology you will be what the profession considers a "professional psychologist" (meaning you will be prepared for all practice areas) and along with your state license you will be educationally, ethically, and legally qualified to work in any practice based psychology setting. With school psych you may have some trouble landing a job in a hospital since they are run by medical staff and medical administrators who may not understand the different psychology designations, but you would be fine in other areas. With a clinical or counseling psych Psy.D. you shouldn't have trouble landing a job in a psychiatric hospital, med hospital, mental health clinic, university counseling center, group mental health practice (be it psychology only or multi-disciplinary), group health practice that includes mental health services, state agency, school, or any other mental health setting. You can also set up a private practice after you receive your license and many psychologists do organizational or business consulting work. You might have trouble landing a job as a professor due to the limited research in a Psy.D. program but you could quite possibly get a position at a community college and a part-time college teaching position on the side shouldn't be much trouble to land. In addition to therapy and possibly teaching, many psychologists take on administrative or management roles in the same settings mentioned above. In research areas a Psy.D. is more limiting than a Ph.D. since the program involves far less independent research. However, if you go to a program with more stringent research requirements, take advantage of voluntary research opportunities, or take a post-doc research fellowship you can counter much of that disadvantage and be competitive with Ph.D.s for research and achedemic positions as well. Sounds to me like this is the best possible advice anyone could give you. Go back to school, take some psych and nursing related coursework, and decide what best "speaks" to you. If you decide on nursing, even if you don't go the PMHNP route, a psych background would be helpful. If you go the psych route, the science courses in the pre-nursing curriculum will be very useful, and psych programs do usually look favorably on science and nursing coursework.

While I'm not an NP so I can't give the perspective you're looking for I will try to make the waters more muddied for you and give you a couple suggestions:devil: You say you have a Ph.D. in psych (something I know a bit about since that is the direction I am pursuing) but you want to work in pediatrics. I just want to be sure I understand, do you want to do pediatrics or child psych? If you want pediatrics (and not child psych) then in addition to med school and NP you may want to look into becoming a PA (physician's assistant). Since you won't have to get your RN and possibly full BSN before starting the program as with an MSN it may be faster for you and you will be able to do pretty much everything a doctor can do (except you will need to work with a doctor and can't be fully independent). I'm pretty sure pediatrics is an available specialty for PAs (though psychiatry doesn't seem to be). Also, if you like the holistic approach of NPs but are considering med school maybe you should look into becoming a DO (Osteopathic physician) instead of an MD. They are physicians just like an MD, can do all MD internships and residencies, but are trained in a more holistic mindset. It wouldn't be any easier than an MD program to juggle school and family responsibilities but it may appeal to you more.

Hello 91W (are you an Army Health Care Specialist, MOS 91W?). Anyway, since I am a future psychologist (hopefully- I haven't gotten into graduate school yet) who looked into becoming a psychiatric nurse practitioner as a possible alternative I hope I can help. Are you already an RN? If you are you may as well go the NP route. With an MSN a psych nurse can make close to what a doctorate level psychologist can make. In most states he/she will be able to prescribe meds (something a psychologist can do only in one state and some in the military, and then only with an additional post-doctorate masters in psychopharmacology, though prescription privileges for psychologists seem to be coming in the future). In many states a psych NP will be able to do a private practice on their own as a therapist (some may be able to prescribe meds in private practice, usually with a collaborating MD for the meds). A psych NP can also do research. About the only disadvantage is if you like testing- only psychologists and counselors can do psych testing in most states. If you have a degree but aren't an RN then the Psy.D. or Ph.D. may be a better route. While a psych NP may have a private practice the public is more accepting of a psychologist in private practice (i.e. it will be easier to develop a clientele). The psychologist has a doctorate while a NP has a masters which will effect what you can charge per hour in private practice or effect your pay by most organizations (the one place a psych NP may make as much or more is in a hospital, but many clinical and counseling psychologists work in other settings other than hospitals). Also, psychology may be quicker. It takes 5 years minimum including the internship (actual time averages about 5.5 years for practice based Psy.D. programs and 6-7 for research based Ph.D. programs) while nursing school is 2-4 years for your BSN/RN depending on past coursework plus a year or two experience before you start your 2 year MSN program. My first question would be "why". Both a pysch NP and a doctorate level psychologist are mental health professionals. In most states they can do independent practice of therapy. The difference is most states allow the NP to prescribe meds and right now only one state allows it of psychologists and then only after additional education. Other than meds both professions can do about 80% of what the other can do. Anyway, most Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology require a BA in psychology. They require significant research in psychology. They require GPAs that rival medical school requirements. They don't particularly care for a MA before starting- most clinical psych Ph.D. programs make you start from scratch if you have a MA in psychology or not, they certainly won't give advanced standing for non-psych masters no matter how closely related. Psy.D. programs in clinical psych and Ph.D.s in counseling psych are a little more MA friendly and a little more friendly towards people with non-psych BA/BS degrees. However, with few exceptions they will be looking for the MA in psychology or maybe counseling, not nursing or other psych related areas. It is unlikely that a Psy.D. in clinical or Ph.D. in counseling psych will give you any advanced standing for an MSN in psych nursing. The main advantage (other than psych testing) the doctorate in psychology will have for someone who wants to be a psych nurse is money. IF you do private practice or work in other non-hospital settings the psychologist will be paid more because they carry the title "doctor" which the psych nurse does not. However, if you work in a hospital the psych nurse probably won't be paid less, and may even be paid more. Now, if you want to be a psychologist there are advantages to this route, but it is a different profession. You will be eligible to work in more settings, though certainly with some overlap (mental health clinics, schools, university counseling centers, hospitals, psych hospitals, community colleges or universities as a professor, research facilities, business consulting, etc). It is more flexible- it isn't uncommon for a psychologist to work more than one area (FT as a professor and PT in practice for instance). You can administer or even design psychological and educational tests. But, it isn't nursing.

I would rethink Mt. Washington if I was you. It is a nice neighborhood but it is in Baltimore City. When I was looking for a place in the Orthodox Jewish community which is party in the city and partly in the county I called my car insurance company. Two addresses just one mile apart, one in the county and one in the city, and the city made a huge difference. My car insurance would have gone up by a little more than double. In addition to car insurance, if you think you might buy instead of rent you will find that property taxes are about double in the city and the city has a number of nuisance fees that the county won't have. Depending upon where you live in the city those costs may be countered by slightly lower rental/real estate prices, but Mt. Washington is relatively expensive and no less than a comparable area in the county. You might want to consider some areas in the county that are near Mt. Washington. Towson is just a little up the road and the older parts have a similar feel. Pikesville is only about 5-10 minutes from Mt. Washington. Owings Mills is just a little futher away than Pikesville and should be just a little cheaper than Mt. Washington, Pikesville and Towson. If you are set on Mt. Washington be sure to check on your insurance rates, taxes, and fees before you move so there are no surprises. If you know what to expect and you are fine with it, it is a very nice area to live in.

Why would you want to do that to yourself. I've lived in Maryland my entire life and for the life of me I have no idea why anyone would move here who doesn't need to. Baltimore is relatively cheap, but crime is high (esp. violent crime) and we have the highest IV drug rate and among the highest AIDS rate in the country. Politics are VERY left leaning so you'd better be a Democrat if you want to be happy (btw- I was a life long Democrat who found the MD Democratic party to be too liberal so you'd better be VERY liberal or apolitical if you want to be happy here). State government makes NJ, NY and the feds look efficient. If you move towards the DC area salaries are high, but real estate is insane (only 3 or 4 cities are worse- San Fran, LA, NYC, maybe Miami and Chicago) and traffic is among the worst in the country (some years the average commute in the DC area is longer than the average for NYC residents). Parts of Montgomery County and PG county (both DC area) are terrific on crime, and parts rival Baltimore City. Move somewhere in between, such as Columbia, and real estate is expensive for Baltimore standards and the commute to the DC area is terrible (though crime isn't bad and prices are a little cheaper than the DC area). If you need to come here, by all means do. Don't turn down a great job offer because it is here. Like anywhere else, there is something for pretty much everyone here. At the same time, if you don't NEED to come here I wouldn't suggest it for someone to move here by choice.

Baltimore isn't a bad city, but it isn't great. Prices are decent. There are some great neighborhoods in the city, and some nice areas outside the city. But, we are also one of the worst cities in the country for violent crime, drugs, AIDS, and a few other nasty things. Definately do some research into the neighborhood you wish to move to (and some of the best, and some of the worst, are in the areas surrounding Sinai). As for Sinai, I've never worked there so I only have a little info to share. It is a Jewish hospital only a couple miles from the city's main Orthodox Jewish community. You will have a lot of Jewish patients, both religious and non-religious, so you will learn alot about our needs (shabbos, kashrus, tznius, negia, etc). Beyond that, the areas nearby that it serves are both upscale and "the hood", and it is pretty varied ethnically, so you will see a lot of ethnic and economic diversity so it would help if you are open minded/progressive on these issues and not racist or anti-semetic. I don't know anything about the administration.

OK a post that caused me to come out of lurking. First, a little background (i.e. "what can he possibly add to this thread"): I have a BA in psychology. I planned on being a psychologist, and still might if life allows it. I will be getting an MA in counseling and becoming a LCPC if I don't become a Psy.D. psychologist. I currently work as a "mental health worker" at a local psychiatric hospital. I did consider nursing as a possibility for a short time and looked into my options if I became a psychiatric nurse. First a warning. I've noticed at my hospital that the nursing staff has a tendency to look down on the therapists and non-nursing/medical staff. Many nurses there give the CNAs with a non-credit/non-college level certificate more respect than the MA, MSW, Psy.D. and Ph.D. level therapists (be they social workers, OTs, psychologists, marriage and family therapists or counselors). One nurse's response to my plan (to get an MA in counseling and being a LCPC to start, and getting my Psy.D. and being a psychologist if I can) was that I should get an AA in nursing so that I can "really help people". Other facilities may not be as bad, but generally it does seem that hospitals don't value non-medical based professionals enough, psych hospitals being only a little better in this regard than medical hospitals. So, what does this warning mean? Well, if you decide to be a therapist and you want to work in a hospital you have to be aware that you might run into this. On the other hand, if you become a nurse you will see this in your co-workers at times and you have to decide if you can handle that if you have respect for psychologists and other therapists. As for the MA in psych v. a MSN, I think you need to evaluate what you want to do and what each degree will do for you. In most states someone with an MA in psych is very limited, with the exception of those with an MA in school psychology (though at the MA level they are usually limited to working in schools). You may be better off with an MA in counseling, or at least tailor your coursework in the psych MA to your state's licensing requirements for counselors or marriage and family therapists. If you wanted to be a psychologist you shouldn't rule that out even if you are sick of research. After your degree in clinical, school, or counseling psychology you can be a fully licensed psychologist (after a year or two experience) and you need never conduct any more research if you are so inclined. Some Ph.D. programs emphasize research less than others (a good resource for info on programs is: "An Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Psychology", http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572304952/102-9835764-3828928?v=glance&n=283155 ). Also, you may want to seriously consider a Psy.D. program where they really de-emphasize conducting research as it's emphasis is the professional practice of psychology. As for the MSN, I looked seriously into that and found some advantages and disadvantages. The advantages: -In most states a psychiatric nurse practitioner can conduct therapy -In most states a psychiatric nurse practitioner can have a private practice -In most states a psychiatric nurse practitioner can precribe meds (usually under an MD or osteopathic physician's supervision) -Nurses, especially with an MSN, can move easily into hospital management The disadvantages: -If you want to do psych testing nurses cannot (you need to be a counselor or psychologist) -If you want to run your own independent program, usually this is done by social workers, psychologists, or psychiatrists, not nurses. -Admission to nursing school at all levels (even many AA programs) is very competetive due to limited numbers of slots so don't expect that it will be that much easier a route of entry than a mildly competetive Ph.D. or Psy.D. program in psychology. -This is the big one so it will get its own paragraph: If you have a degree in psych and work/life experiences geared towards admission to grad school in psych you are part of the way there. To get your MSN you will need to essentially start over. At minimum you will need your RN before you can start. Whatever way you go (AA, BSN, Certificate/Diploma, or accellerated programs for people with a BA) you first need your pre-req courses. If you didn't take courses like Anatomy and Physiology and other pre-nursing courses you may have a year or two of coursework before you can even start a program. Then you have two years of clinicals (one in an accellerated program), and most people find the workload so high that they can't work, at least not full-time, while in clinicals. Then from there you need a year or two experience before most MSN programs will even consider you (though there are a handfull of accellerated MSN programs for people with BAs in other fields where you'll start out in a dual BSN-MSN program). Then you'll be able to start your 1.5-3 year MSN program. AA or BSN to get your RN to start? I've noticed a few programs where you can do your MSN with an AA in nursing and your RN if you have a BA in another field. However, for maximum flexibility (most programs don't have that option) you need your BSN so this pre-MSN step will likely take you 2-3 years AFTER you finish your pre-nursing coursework. So, it is very possible that a Psy.D. in clinical psych will take less time. Figure a year at least for pre-nursing courses if you didn't already take them. Two years of clinicals even if you go the AA route. Possibly another year of coursework if you go for your BSN and not your AA. Now we are at 3-4 years when you get your degree/RN. Now you need a couple years work experience before you can even start your MSN program, then about 2 years later you can finish your degree and finally start to do therapy. In a typical Psy.D. program you are done your coursework (essentially) after 4 years and then you start your one year (often paid) internship. So if you aren't already an RN you are looking at 5-6 years before you can conduct therapy (that's even if you get into an MSN program right out of RN school with no experience as a RN, which is unlikely). An MA in counseling or psych+ counseling or marriage and family therapy licensure will run you 2 years of school and a year of work experience for the license (you can work and do therapy without the license, the license is needed for independent work or private practice). A Psy.D. in clinical, counseling, or school psychology will take about 5 years including the internship. Anyway, good luck whatever route you choose.