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Who should get in? Atheist: Who ever is luck enough? CHristian: Whom ever has God's favor? So if your not a christian, you may be atheist. If your not lucky you wont get in. So therefore the denied applicant may be an unlucky atheist. Life is not fair. I cant really describe it. Just read the post I posted before that one.

He changed the argument in a way in which it was impossible to win. I changed it in such a way that if he was a christian it would be hard to argue with much I said, but I did say that the argument would never stand in the court of law. (in that area you can also plug in college admission criteria)He used my own premises against me. I used his choice of words against him. He didn't say who deserved to be in the program. He said who would survive the program. Who should be chosen? So who deserves to get in? Is it the smart person who earned his grade or the person smart enough to cheat at the right time? And the answer is....(DRUM ROLL) The person who is smart enough to earn his grade and wise enough to know when to choose his/her battles. This battle was not hers especially when the professor didn't care,esp when its only one pre req testt, esp. when there's no direct potential for patient harm and no potential for negative reputation for school. The battle it's not yours it's the Lord's.

He didn't 100% go off who deserved to be accepted in the program. He said who would survive the program and who should be chosen to fill the last slots. He denied ethics as well. He also gave an example of probability by saying there are some cheaters who would be worst nurses there would be some cheaters that would be better nurses. 1rst of all some cheaters had to survive the program and pass the boards in order to even be called nurse in the 1rst place. That's why I said I would flip a coin. Obviously you are missing the pt. Why should the mega rich get a tax brake, and the poor have to pay taxes. Why should people be harassed at airports b/c of the actions of a few terrorists. Why should I be stopped frequently while driving just b/c I look younger than 17 even though I earned my drivers license. I'm trying to come up with better analogies but I can't right now. But I'm sure you can. I dont want to underestimate your intelligence.

A student who cheats in prereq classes will frequently fail out of the nursing program. Did you mean a student who frequently cheats in prereq classes will fail out of the nursing program. Or did you mean a student who cheats in prereq. classes will flunk out of nursing school shortly after the student's acceptance? I am glad to see that inspite of your trials/tribulations youve managed to keep yourself in the right direction. This isn't the Tonys or Oscars so I guess your reward is in heaven. This amounts to time,a waste of energy and money. Whose time, energy, and money is it wasting? Certainly not yours. Cheating increases their odds of failing the board exams. Does it increase your odds of failing the exam as well. No! So why are you worried about it? Ge

Psalm 37: Fret not thyself b/c of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. (For the tattle-teller) For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. (hopefully the habitual cheaters) Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. ( acceptance into nursing school) If you are truly a child of God you have nothing to worry about. If I was one of the judges of admission I would flip a coin to determine who should fill the last slots. Why b/c when I was in nursing school most of the peers I knew cheated on at least ONE PRE REQ. test. Somehow they've managed to survive the program b/c we are all alumni class of "xx. Remember you put ethics aside. As for the unlucky atheist, life is unfair. If you dont understand what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.

I meant to put that nursing school would weed out Habitual cheaters. Now that you've changed the whole argument around I am going to have to think harder. Let's see, we're not dealing with ethics but survival of the program. I guess I can just pick my face up off the floor or get my foot out of my mouth. This takes me back to my 1rst post. What was her motive for reporting the cheaters? She was jealous and tried to hide that emotion by using ethics as an excuse to seem chilvary-like. Bare with me b/c I think differently. This argument may never hold up in the court of law but this is what I believe. Who should get into the last available slots? atheist: Who ever is lucky enough to get chosen? Christian: (that's me) Whom ever has God's favor> This is how I see things? If you are doing your part God will acknowledge that and therefore you have nothing to worry about. If you have a close relationship w/ God &studied but still didn't get in. It's for your good. That means it wasn't your time, something bad could have happened, God has something else planned for your life,etc.

Some professors don't allow tape recording. Dont worry b/c eventually you will develop your own shorthand style of taking notes. Just don't write stuff down. Try to understand what you are writing down along with what the professor is saying. If its too demanding? 1rst: tell professor to repeat or could you slow down please! 2nd: Ask questions and verify. 3rd: Always get at least 3 other students numbers so you all can compare notes or get information from one another if one fails to show up to class. Most times just listen to the professor & write only necessary stuff. Like things the professor stress will more than likely be on the test.

Writing is my pet peeve. I Hate writing essays, research papers,etc. with a passion. That's is one of the reasons why I'm behind in school. It's not that I have bad grammar or even bad ideas for that matter. I have a hard time putting what I have in my head down on paper. I'm a perfectionist. I overwhelm myself with multiple revising/editing. Im the sort of person that will tell you what I have to say instead of writing it down. I'm in a BSN program. About 7 short essays in fresh comp. Only required 5 paragraphs with a three point thesis in the introduction. A research paper in Sociology. A case study in Microbiology,Anatomy,. I've also had to summarize articles but I dont count that as writing original work. For the most part I've been extremely lucky. Freshman composition is a writing class. So I wouldn't suggest takeing a writing course. Your professor should provide you with enough feedback.

AMY 0123... Thanks for Posting those bible scriptures. I've listed that page under my favorites. It almost put me to tears:bluecry1:

Sounds like you will be in Psych Nursing.

You can do it! It's a mind thing. All you have to do is study. I took pre-calculus instead of college math b/c i wasn't sure if i wanted to pursue nursing or pharmacy school. Well the truth of the matter is that I had a weak professor. She could not teach. So I sought after tutoring and studied on my own. It was hard! The whole class struggled but I got through by the grace of God. I got a C. But she taught me if you really want something you are going to have to work hard for it. TALK about a professor who had no teaching skills. She taught everything the hard way and could not break it down. Plus she only gave examples already written out in the book. How can you be good at science and not math? My hardest math class was chemistry. I hated doing all those calculations,steps, and putting in formulas, manipulating formulas to fit special cases,etc. I suggest you take CHEMISTRY as a determining factor if you can handle the other math included in Nursing. Or go for an ADN program so you don't have to take statistics and other math & extra science classes that include more math.

Well, it's a harsh world out there. There are many gimics and scams but this scam is totally preventable. There's no doubt that the business is wrong but I partially blame on the student. Why? There is enough easy attainable information out there. The internet alone has thousands of websites that let you know the difference between the 2 fields. 1.Occupation Outlook Handbook. 2.Google. yahoo search engines. type in: nursing education ma education What do nurses do? What do ma's do? 3.This lovely forum itself provides enough information to distinguish between the two. This spam was totally avoidable.

Last Post! I understand what you all are saying but you are all misunderstanding me. CHEATING IS NOT "OKAY" EVEN UNDER EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES. IS IT 100% NECESSARY FOR HER TO REPORT THE CHEATERS OF A PREREQUISITE TEST? Most say yes it is important. One nurse even boldly declared that cheating on ONE PreREQ test will make you an unethical and incompetent nurse in clinical situations. The original post was should she go report to the upper authorities. My answer is NO!!! Why b/c it's a waste of time. The nursing school should be able to weed out who is appropiate and not. They dont need her help. Unless it deals with direct potential for patient harm or a threat to the school's reputation it is not worth the time. Well at least my time. So cheating is not okay. But giving the circumstances. Professor who doesnt care. Prerequisite. No life or death situation. Why waste Calories and time walking to some upper authority. The upper authority may even look at you like why is he/she wasting my time. There is more pressing stuff I have to deal with right now. I just dont see how you can relate cheating on one test automatically making a nurse unethical & incompetent. Trust me the cheater would not be able to make it through nursing school.

When she replied, making good money for "just" a 2-year degree You should have given her some reasons why you ADN's make good money for just a 2 year degree. No master's degree program whether it be in biology, computer science, or humanities major has to deal with taking care of sick people while putting your ownself at risk for disease... Dealing with bodily fluids, plus making one mistake could kill. I still dont think she meant to come off condescending in that way. But i didn't hear her tone of voice.

Basically and you would too! I couldn't live by myself on earth, esp. knowing that there an under water habitat better for humans b/c the ozone layer has semi depleted a way. No seriously let me be realistic. Let's not forget that some schools have an honor code. Back to the traffic law scenario. How many times have you slipped up esp. when everyone else on the interstate is going 65mph. The police doesn't stop them but he stops you. He asks maam do you know how fast you were going? Your saying in your head. I was just flowing with the traffic. I agree with you about falsifying documentation, b/c i would be fill in the blank_________. My thesis statement behind this all is that cheating on ONE PREQUISITE EXAM hardly qualifies someone to say that a future nurse will AUTOMATICALLY falsify documents or just be unethical. You can argue and debate my dumb analogies & time wasting anecdotes BUT NO ONE CAN BREAK MY THESIS STATEMENT. So stop trying to convince me your right and stop using numbers against me to reassure yourselves. There could be 1 billion other people disagreeing with what I'm saying but I know my thesis statement is right.

Extreme rare examples of someone who is caring for a family and didn't have time to study as an excuse for cheating. How extreme? How rare? Everyone is not living the American dream with a white pickett fence surrounding a 4 bedroom house, 2 cars, staying in a nice safe upscale neighborhood. Living w/o any financial worries. Living w/o worrying if there going to make ends-meet. That's exactly whats wrong with suburbia today. Are u from Orange county or from somewhere over the rainbow where the things that u dare to dream really do come true? At least I can say that u put that cheating is not 100% factor in determinating if someone will be a bad Nurse. Good I'm getting some progress. But the risks are higher that they will behave unethically. Question: By how much? Is it an 30% increase? What? Today's lesson: What you consider unethical may not be unethical for another person. It doesn't make you right and them wrong. For ex: After hurricane Katrina, the break of the levees and etc. A man who could not swim was hanging on a dead body as though it was a floatation device. The dead body was someone's father, nephew, cousin, son, uncle, etc. The family member would probably say, " Oh my God not uncle Louiee" Why is he hanging on him like that, get off! (crying) Its unethical but desperate times call for desperate measures. You have to be a survivor. Last, I want to know what nursing school did you attend to in order to even think that an indivdual could graduate by not knowing nothing. Please tell me so the whole forum can Know not to apply to that nursing school. Wait a minute that may be some type of violaton relating to confidentiality, defamation, slander or whatever. I guess that's just your little secret.

I'm sorry to here about your financial difficulties. You stated that you dont believe that anyones on a high horse but right after that statement you put You live by a different standard than I. (huh, could that be PRIDE) How were you able to live by a different standard than I? Was it a personal choice? Before you were $40K in debt, how was your child hood? Did your parents guide you in the right direction? Are did you grow up moving from foster home to group home, being abused, misguided? Everyone doesnt have the luxury of having parents to instill values in them. A child that's been abused and poverished may come to look at the world as every man for himself. Simply just trying to survive. That doesn't mean they lack ethical values for cheating on a test. They may see the professor's attitude and say well if he doesnt care why should I. Im gone make sure i study in nursing school though. As far as I'm concerned Sally saw there was no consequence to the cheating b/c the professor (authority) didn't care. Sally was willing to face the music. When? When she had all ready planned to study harder b/c the comprehensive final exam was sure to come soon. Why shouldnt the tattle teller feel partly responsible when she's the one seeking for a harsh consequence. Trust me no one could make it through SUSON by cheating. If its not directly involved with potential patient harm or school reputation dont bother reporting. Trust me, I think the Nursing school staff are competent enough to weed out the individuals who cant handle it. The easy way out: Let's say 2 freshman love biology. One takes professor X. The other takes professor Y. It's possible for both students to come out learning around the same amount of material yet one of the freshman now dreads biology and the other still loves biology. Plus one freshman has a C in the class, the other an A. Why b/c one professor has a different teaching style. X is strict having a quiz every class, essay test, etc. Y is more involved with Lab and relates more to students in real life situations interactive, plus makes jokes during class. Both students have other classes and a social life maybe even a job. If both come out learning around the same amount of information. Why put up with the unnecessary stress?

The point being made was that there is no evidence that there wasn't any evidence of extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test. EX: Sally didn't plan to cheat but since the opportunity presented itself and the professor could careless WHY NOT? Besides everyone else is doing it. A voice in her head is saying," God I know this is wrong, but I promise I will go back and study this material so I can understand it later" Right now she is worried about more important issues at hand.

So it's okay to bend rules only if its planned in advance. I think according to Law Premeditated murder would give a more harsh charge than someone who reacted out of passion. Ignorantium Argumentum: There is no evidence that any of the cheaters had any extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test. There is no evidence that there wasn't any cheaters with extenuating circumstances that prevented them from being prepared for the test.

Why you shouldn't have.... Sorry to seem so passionate about my argument. I may come off as rude but the truth of the matter is that I'm RIGHT and in my opinion you premium members are wrong. Sorry if the truth hurts. Well you all have the upper hand so I guess this topic is closed due to whatever. The only thing those cheating students did wrong was follow her to her car as an intimidation tactic.

You must be one truely compassionate nurse. People make mistakes. When you are in the midst of all hell braking loose everyone would like to think that they can think rationally. Oh no I could never do that! Get off that high horse. Dont think so high minded. Everyone copes with stress differently.

JOLIE May I add to your list of integrity. You've never ran the red light. You've never performed a rolling stop at a stop sign. Never had a speeding ticket. Never cursed anyone out even though they deserved it. You stated you pay your taxes. Do you claim only the persons you suppose to claim? You never sinned before so if you would had been born back in the bible day,when Jesus asked let him without sin cast the first stone, You would have thrown a bull dozer at that woman. Oh let's go off subject for a min. So I can give refutation by logical analogy. Suppose I report a car traveling 85mph on the interstate. I dont know the reason behind the speeding but im just in an itchy mood. Im too scared to speed myself and jealous that the other car is getting a way with it. If you have gotten a speeding ticket before, What was it for? Well the speeding car was a nurse delivering her father who has a history of coronary heart disease and is experiencing respiratory distress to the emergency room. We all have laws and rules to follow. But you should have common sense enough to know that there are times when those laws or rules should be broken. Even though it's stil wrong. Give me an employee who can combine common sense with nursing intervention anyday rather than some one who follows the rule book. Some of you have to be republican. How many times has a Lpn or non-lices health care worker saved your @ss? Some of them may have cheated on a test but when it came down to it they put the patient at less risk than you. Cheating on one test hardly qualifies one to say You will be an incompetent unethical nurse. Bullsh**

I know someone out there still disagrees with me. So here goes my last attempt to try to get you all to understand. Let's think of a possible real life situation. For ex: Sally, an only child, has just experience the 1rst death in her family. Sally lost her only parent who was her father. She remembers her father being extremely proud of her for going back to College. She's going through the grieving process as well as experiencing financial problems. Sally has 3 kids and the kids' father doesn't help to support them. Two of three kids she have are experiencing trouble at school academically. The reason why she didn't study was b/c she was busy helping them with their homework. Although Sally is currently working full-time to meet ends-meet, she has recently received threat of an eviction and 3 red letters saying some utility will get cut off or car repossessed. She cheated but after she got the answers she went back over the test to understand the material. She cant justify the cheating but right now shes at a time in her life when she could loose everything. She could loose her car, house, fuure, kids and mind. Let's say the cheaters were expelled b/c you reported that incident. She was expelled and lost her Faith. Was it worth that woman's children quality of life. Was it worth her living the rest of her life struggling to take care of herself. Prioritize: Is reporting the cheaters for a pre-req test that important?

symptom of not being able to cut it, at whatever level. And no, I never did cheat. I was the nerd on the end of the front row keeping my paper covered. For all the self-proclaimed nerds: I noticed no one admitted to never falsifying documents, making a med error or covering up a mistake their whole nursing career. Can anyone of you confess that underoath? Im talking to the well seasoned nurses so newbies dont bother responding. The truth of the matter is that you can't be that judgemental. So you all can just get off that high horse of yours. I live in the real world. No blood, no foul. And as far as