S.I.C.

I am still here to tell you that I respect your views. Even if you do not believe in God, it is really okay. I respect your views; and if you want, you can respect my views. However, if you do not want, It will not affect me at all. Yes, I left, but I came back again to say that the topic about the existence of God, should not make us fight one another, and I am not here to stay. Our common goal is to serve our patients all over the world. Patients are different, and nurses are also different. However, the nursing profession helps us all.

If someone is still doubting that God exists. It not necessary to fight over this issue. Even angles from heaven or from hell will not convince him. Does God exist? Yes, He does. I strongly believe that God exists and my life lies in His hands. If you still want more evidences, I will provide them to you; but, I doubt they will change anything from what you believe in. Nursing profession, is an international profession. In many countries around the world, they are millions of people who believe in God and some of them are our patients. These people, are not only Christians. So, our patients, have the right to ask us any questions. If you do not have or know the answer, it is better to be honest and say: "I don't know, and I will get you someone who knows better about this topic to help you". It is not necessary to be angry about a question about the existence of God, or to be angry about Christian Nurses,...because all of us, are in the same profession. I would request you to read the nursing pledge that all of us use. Do you think Florence Nightingale did not believe in God? If she did and she is the founder of nursing profession, why do you get mad now, or why should you feel uncomfortable if a patient could ask you if God exists? Even if we someone may not believe that God exists. That is okay for him, but he should not be unhappy to those of believe that God exists! Finally, even if you do not believe that God exists; it does not make Him not exist anyway!

Hi Spotangel, Thank you very much to all colleagues who enriched me in polite, constructive, and professional way with different approaches in responding carefully to the patient who asks a question related to the existence of God. The year 2020 has been a bad year for many people, and now it is gone! I hope the new year 2021 comes with many blessings, good dreams and resolutions. One of my resolutions is to concentrate on more important aspects of my life in general, and my professional life in particular. As I put end to my participation and interaction in this forum, I sincerely thank you for your great insights in providing me with excellent and various approaches in taking care of patients from different backgrounds as far as spiritual care is concerned. The rich experiences I received from some of you in dealing with patients in life and death are highly appreciated. I sincerely thank the administrators of this site who established it so that nurses can lean from each other in a constructive way! Thank you very much for the great job! Happy New Year 2021 to all!

In facing this challenge, what should be the contribution to this nursing forum or to the nursing association? Should we not contribute some money for this afflicted nurse. For sure the facility will pay the price, and I guess the security guard who refused to help must pay the price. What lesson can we learn from this. For the protection of employees, and other patients; some measures should take immediately such as restraining the patient by force. This is a high profile situation that can happen to any of us. In this season of COVID-19, PPE should be made available to all staff without any condition.

I sincerely sympathize with the assaulted nurse. The employer should be responsible of what happened and should pay compensation in terms of money. Policies should be made to protect nurses from violent patients and I think, unless if a patient is mentally ill, otherwise he should pay the penalty. As a nurse, if patient start to hit me, and assault me physically, I have to defend myself. However, I have to search if there are laws that can protect me in that kind of scenario.

Older females are a tough challenge. The best male CNA I ever worked with managed to get their trust by always being completely polite and respectful. He would get a female to work with him at first and paid attention to all the little details that they liked. It took a lot of time but eventually some ladies preferred him to the other CNAs. You will have to show them how good you will treat them. I guess in nursing profession, it is really good to understand those older females not as a challenge, but an opportunity to learn from them. They become older not only in age, but also in problems of different aspects, and the best thing in professional experiences. The best way is to lower your head a little bit, respect them, and help them as much you can. Then, then will cooperate well or sometimes not well with you. In the future you will find yourself in the same category like them. Family, relationship, financial, professional problems make them feel bitter and tired. They need someone who is willing to learn from them, someone who is not there to challenge them.

It is better just better to focus on your future goals no matter what happens to you on your educational path! Even a rough road can lead you to your final destination.

Hi Spotangel, Thank you very much to all colleagues who enriched me in polite, constructive, and professional way with different approaches in responding carefully to the patient who asks a question related to the existence of God. The year 2020 has been a bad year for many people, and now it is gone! I hope the new year 2021 comes with many blessings, good dreams and resolutions. One of my resolutions is to concentrate on more important aspects of my life in general, and my professional life in particular. As I put end to my participation and interaction in this forum, I sincerely thank you for your great insights in providing me with excellent and various approaches in taking care of patients from different backgrounds as far as spiritual care is concerned. The rich experiences I received from some of you in dealing with patients in life and death are highly appreciated. I sincerely thank the administrators of this site who established it so that nurses can lean from each other in a constructive way! Thank you very much for the great job! Happy New Year 2021 to all!

There should be no threats and intimidation toward old residents or even any person related to religious beliefs.

Hi Spotangel, Thank you very much to all colleagues who enriched me in polite, constructive, and professional way with different approaches in responding carefully to the patient who asks a question related to the existence of God. The year 2020 has been a bad year for many people, and now it is gone! I hope the new year 2021 comes with many blessings, good dreams and resolutions. One of my resolutions is to concentrate on more important aspects of my life in general, and my professional life in particular. As I put end to my participation and interaction in this forum, I sincerely thank you for your great insights in providing me with excellent and various approaches in taking care of patients from different backgrounds as far as spiritual care is concerned. The rich experiences I received from some of you in dealing with patients in life and death are highly appreciated. I sincerely thank the administrators of this site who established it so that nurses can lean from each other in a constructive way! Thank you very much for the great job! Happy New Year 2021 to all!

Thank you for the answer. I agree with you about Constantine. Constantine was fighting for his political survival and used Christianity to attract many people to him and he succeed with plans against his rivals. He was baptized on the deathbed, but throughout his leadership, he was only pretending to be a Christian. I thought true Christianity came from Christ (Jesus-Christ), who was purposely born to be the savior of mankind. True Christians follow Jesus-Christ, and not Constantine. GrumpyRN, NP is afraid of discussing about Christianity on this forum. He stated: "Yeah, I'm not getting involved in that level of dogma. One of us would end up being banned from the site. ??"

I agree with you! ??

Christianity started with the coming of Jesus-Christ. Jesus Christ is God, the creator of heavens and earth, and the creator of mankind. He has no beginning and no end. He came in this world, in the form of a human. Conceived and born from Mary. He grew up living with mankind. He brought the gospel, preached the repentance from sin, forgiving sins, healing the sick and the lame, and resurrecting the dead people like Lazarus. He is the one who brought the highest morality in the world, teaching all of us to love even our enemies and to pray for them. Jesus Christ, started the Christian Church. So now, there are many Christians around the world. Some good following His footsteps, and some bad, corrupt, and wicked. Do you agree with me?

Thank you very much for your answer. "You become self aware! This sentience is what created religion. An extension of self. Insightful manipulative Individuals saw the possibilities of control and profit. Organized religions was born". I do not know what type of religion are talking about. There are many religions in the world. Do you think all of them started the same way?

"What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything? The answer is 42. Or... If you want to be more exact 0.007297351 which can also be written as 1/137. This the number that appears when you combine the speed of light in a vacuum, the electrical charge of one electron and Planck's constant. Known as the 'fine structure constant'" You still remember physics and Chemistry? You are surprising me. Your reply is very philosophical. Hard to understand! Almost all philosophers agree that the ultimate end of all human action is directed toward HAPPINESS. Thank you for trying all you can to make the universe happy including yourself! You are very well grounded!

Hi GrumpyRN, NP, I want just to wish you a very prosperous new year 2021. I wish I could see you face to face, then I could give you a BIG treat in a very good restaurant. I enjoyed exchanging ideas with you. The very difficult year 2020 is almost gone. May 2021 be the best year for you, for your family members and friends; for all nurses around the world in general, and for all the nurses in this forum in particular. Again! HAPPY NEW YEAR 2021.

Hi GrumpyRN, NP Thank you for the passage from Job. Many people lost their lives from this experience. Job suffered so much, but did not turn away from his God. I understand now the list of 10 people the devil killed. I think and believe he killed more than than 10 including those in the list of 25 millions that you said were killed by God. Someone can prove me wrong. Thank you very much!

Hi GrumpyRN, PN, I want to ask you a short question related to your belief system. This is my question. What is the purpose of your existence or my existence on this planet earth?

Hi GrumpyRN, PN Thank you very much for the list I found the site you gave me. The list indicates the people that God killed. Where is the list of only 10 people that the devil killed? I will ready again and again, and see if the devil was not involved in those 25 millions. Were they good people or wicked ones? Whoever they were; me a simple human may not really why God allowed this to happen. I cannot even know the extent to which the devil was involved. What I know is that whatever Go does, He does it for a good reason. Would you also say whatever the devil does, does it also for a good reason? Well, these are difficult things to discuss but very I think very good to discuss too. Thank you very much for the list. Hi Curious 1997 " "I don't believe it!!"????. Seriously, Grumpy RN, Victor Meldrew and you don't get the context? One of my favorite characters ever! " I don't believe it too!!?

Hi GrumpyRN, PN Thank you very much for the list I found the site you gave me. The list indicates the people that God killed. Where is the list of only 10 people that the devil killed? I will ready again and again, and see if the devil was not involved in those 25 millions. Were they good people or wicked ones? Whoever they were; me a simple human may not really why God allowed this to happen. I cannot even know the extent to which the devil was involved. What I know is that whatever Go does, He does it for a good reason. Would you also say whatever the devil does, does it also for a good reason? Well, these are difficult things to discuss but very I think very good to discuss too. Thank you very much for the list.

Hi spontangel, I think your experience as a young nurse in Saudi Arabia is a very great one. I appreciate it and it reminds me of something. I had similar experience when I was caring for Buddhist patients. Respecting patients' beliefs is important.

Hi TheMoonisMylantern, ADN,LPN, RN, "Would you participate in the spiritual aspect of a patient's care if they were non-Christian? Why or why not?" Absolutely. If my patients are not Christians, I would participate in the spiritual aspect of the care without imposing my own beliefs, and without judging theirs. Patients are innocent people who in their struggles and pains have different questions in their minds. As much as I can, I will help and I will avoid hurting them. If some questions are beyond my knowledge, I would seek help from other people depending on the needs of the patients. Patients trust us and feel very happy to discuss any topic they feel is relevant to them if it may be not relevant to us.

Hi GrumpyRN, NP I am scared of the devil because he is the origin of all evil things in this world, including sickness and death. From the garden of Eden until today, people suffer so much, and finally die with great pain. The devil brought sin, and because of sin, all of us including animals and in fact everything in this world suffer and die. I was taught that God is love. He loves me and He loves you too. Jesus died on the cross of Calvary because of His love to humanity. In fact Jesus brought the highest level of morality where He teaches us not to kill, not to steal, to love even our enemies and pray for them. That is why, I am not cared of God. With my human knowledge and understanding, I may not fully understand why God allowed those 25 millions to die, but I think it was because of their sins. The people who lived during the time of Noah were wicked and refused to repent; and so were the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and God destroyed them. They became wicked because of the devil. I don't where you got the figure of 25 million who got killed by God, and only 10 people who got killed by the devil. Who killed people during World War I and World war II? The bubonic plague killed many people, who was behind it? These are difficult questions we may discuss and come to a common agreement! Right? I know this topic can bring unnecessary debate; but anyone who believes in God knows that God love, God loves everyone, and brings blessings to everyone including His enemies. Can you also say that the devil loves people and blesses them? Do you anyone who has been blessed by the devil? In caring for patients, I understand from my colleagues, that I have no choice other than to care for everyone regardless of their religious affiliations. That mean, I have to take very well to a devil worshiper patient, as I can care for an Atheist, agnostic, pagan, Muslim, Buddhist, Christian and so forth. I would not be cared anymore. That is a very good lesson I learned from this forum.

Hi TheMoonisMylantern, ADN,LPN, RN You great experiences. It is my very first time to hear of a nurse who cared for a "devil worshiper" patient. I really think that I am learning something new from you. I don't know what would be my attitude toward such kind of a patient. Personally I am scared of the devil. So, to have someone who worships this being around me would make me also sacred of him. However, now I don't know if I was assigned to him/her, if I would also refuse to care for him, and you did not tell us if those nurses who refused to care for him got punished because of that. Are we (nurses) ethically allowed to refused to care for devil worshiper patients? I want to know because this is totally new to me. When I think of evolution in nursing, sometimes if think that it time for nursing curriculum to include philosophical courses so that they can be able to have more answers to give, because they care for patients from different backgrounds and with different levels of education. I believe someday soon or later, some patients will ask you these five questions: 1. Who am I?, 2. Where do I come from?, 3. Where am I going?, 4. What is the purpose of my life? 5. Is really death the end of human life? These questions puzzled ancient philosophers like Plato, Aristotle, Socrates...and until today, these questions are very difficult to answer them. You state: "I am not a Christian, and my beliefs are complicated and not mainstream by any means". You are not Christian, not Atheist, not Agnostic, not Pagan probably.... Between us: "where do you stand? why is it complicated? or you probably do not believe in anything? I am sorry of my questions are impolite or stupid..., they are not meant to attack you, but only I am learning from you. Please, help! You have experiences that most of us do not have, and personally, I need your help.

Hi cynical-RN, BSN I don't think think that self-actualization according to Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs meant to have a lot of money. I guess a graduating student had money already to go through her education, and graduation is a luxurious event. If I had that much, instead of sending a paycheck to a graduating student, I would send it to a homeless person, or a poor nursing student, and pay her nursing education; or else pay the debts of nursing students. In addition, If I had more money, I would create a charity fund for orphan nursing, or those nurses who have lost their jobs because of stress or COVID-19. Can we (all nurses) in this forum contribute some money and establish a charity fund for the needy?....but not for a graduating student? Do you really think a graduating student is a needy person?