DRossy

That is ridiculous.

Thanks, you too :)

That's a great idea about AA sign in sheets to take to the board. Also, maybe go to the IOP she went to and have her sign an ROI for the board, since they'll ask her to do that- might as well show up with it done.

Okay thanks

I often wish I'd done something else for a living since all this happened, even with as much as I loved being a nurse. But, yeah, I definitely wasn't chasing a high so much as trying to secure my death. And I don't want to sound like a high school kid that wanted to die after a break-up, I'm in my late forties (she's more than a decade younger) so, it wasn't that. It was that I couldn't deal with the guilt I had and fear that my girlfriend could very well be dead on the streets and the kids forever wards of the state because I made the wrong choice although, I really didn't know what the hell to do in the situation, she needed to go to the hospital. It didn't go as planned but, thinking I caused irreparable harm to vulnerable people who trusted me... maybe I'm weak but, I just couldn't handle it. People at the point I was at, with my level of suicidality, they don't seek help cause they want to die. But, still, going to a nursing job drunk is pretty bad.

Cats- thanks for that. I just have so much guilt associated with what I did and when I compare it to you or my girlfriend, it makes me feel like a total a-hole. Or when I compare it to people like Spanks who did something outside work...Still coming to grips with my shame here. But, yeah, clearly when I was drinking to that point and was battling suicidal thoughts- I was obviously self medicating the severe depression I fell into. I guess the difference is that for me it was situational- had a lot of guilt about my girlfriends kids going to foster care, really was just full of self hate at that point in my life and was lonely and hopeless. I felt like I'd contributed to the destruction of a family made up of three really vulnerable people and I couldn't deal with that, it was too much for me. But, honestly, now that I'm dealing with this and facing the very real possibility that I'm not going to be able to get my life together again I'm feeling pretty damn depressed again, fortunately not depressed enough to want to drink, especially because I know it'd be the nail in my coffin as far as nursing goes. And I agree with everything you're sayin about the rehab industry but seriously- showing up to work drunk- that's pretty bad. The fact I worked at a psych hospital makes it somewhat better, especially one as mellow as the one I worked at although it's almost more embarrassing. Anyway, you're right, they are closely related- mentally stable people don't try to poison themselves with drugs and alcohol on a daily basis.

And the DUI thing, seriously? What the hell does that have to do with your job? Why can't people be alcoholics outside of work anyway, as long as they don't go to work drunk, or drink at work? Last time I checked alcohol is legal and being an alcoholic... it's also completely legal. Why the hell should someone who got a DUI not be allowed narc keys or to work home health? It literally makes no freakin sense. I mean, I get that you have to report a DUI to your employer, pretty sure that's true with most jobs- that if you get arrested you have to report it to your employer? If that's not true then I don't get why that should be the case for nurses only. It just makes no sense. In my case, I get it- why the punishment- I get it... But, for me the worst part about all of it is that it's all published for public access- I'm not quite sure why that's necessary. Diverting or being impaired at work- clearly, in those cases probation makes sense and having the details of your actions reported to whatever government agencies and accessible to potential employers, that makes sense. But, I'm not sure why that information is easily accessible to everyone in the world and mail delivered to all the nurses in your state. If addiction is protected by the ADA now, why do all our peers need to be informed of our personal struggles? I don't get that. And... I was fortunate enough to have money in savings which allowed me to pay the 70k for rehab and IOP- but, for the nurses without the money to pay you'd think they'd offer some type of alternative or at least give them time to work another job, get health insurance and be able to go to rehab- I mean, I don't know- something! To just say you either have the money or you lose everything? I don't see how anyone can't see that that's maybe even just a tiny bit messed up.

Honestly, when someone loses everything, friends, family, their livelihood, their dignity because of something they had no control over- I don't know how they wouldn't be bitter and negative. The stigma associated with mental illness is very real and they way it's handled by the nursing board and nursing field is disgusting. You sound just like someone I know and I definitely get it. I guess the difference with being an addict and doing things like diverting and showing up to work drunk is that as much as addiction is a disease acting on your impulses like that is also a choice. Clearly, addicts have to chose to keep poisoning themselves and sabotaging their own life but, with the episodes of temporary psychosis, mania, severe depression (r/t bipolar disorder) that frequently occurs with people afflicted with bipolar disorder when it's severe, it's like you're a victim of your brain. It shouldn't be treated the same as addiction in nursing, it's really disgraceful. No matter how many freaking AA meetings you go to or pee tests you take- that's not going to change that you have a mental illness. It also doesn't change that people who are mentally ill hurt others at rates lower than the general population. When someone who is mentally ill falls into an episode like that it's easy to spot and the person can be kindly direct or driven to a hospital by their employer, family can be called or a police for an ambulance (although with people who are mentally ill that can definite backfire or we wouldn't hear about people being fatally shot and those types of horror stories). There's so many ways the board and the field can handle it that aren't cruel and further destructive. Nurses who have an episode of severe mental illness, their cases should be handled privately, if there's board monitoring it can be as simple as the board having you sign a contract to see a therapist and stipulate that you take medication and call in once a month so they can make sure you're stable, it shouldn't be public probation forcing you to meet stips that make no sense and you definitely shouldn't be forced to disclose that to potential employers because discrimination is real and difficult to prove. People with bipolar disorder can suffer one severe episode and not another for ten, fifteen years or more. Point is, it can definitely be managed and when the person is stable again there's no reason why they can't safely return to work, it's not like their episode resulted in them losing their years of experience, skill or knowledge. It really is awful to lose friends and family and spend the rest of your life treated with kid gloves by people in your life who once respected you- but, to be shamed infront of your professional community is just further wounding someone who is struggling, causing trauma to a person who is already vulnerable. You'd think people in the nursing field who are supposed to be compassionate, caring and not judgemental would be there for you but they turn their backs to gossip. You'd think surely any employer and professional board would want to see you stable, okay again and would be compassionate but, they're anything but. It's really tragic. What happened with my girlfriend was extreme and if what happened with you is the better response- that shows how sick the board and nursing field are. You'd think people in the medical field with their education would know that many people who suffer from a severe mental illness can be well stabilized on medication and with treatment. God, to have your story published online, how is that not a HIPPA violation? It's completely sick and sad and will always be a tragedy in your life- living with a mental illness, like I said, is torture in and of itself but, it seems like for many the worst part about it is society's response. Like I said, I have friends who are speech pathologists and school psychologist (one of each) who have suffered psychotic episodes, more than once, and are always allowed to return to the same job they've had for over twenty years (one at an elementary school- actually the lead school psychologist in her district) the other in a program that works with autistic children. Their boards keep their illness private as they should and their employers are compassionate as they should be. There's no reason not to be bitter and negative- it's like kicking someone when they're down, then dragging them down the road as they keep trying to get better. It's sad, it really is. It's hard enough to come to terms with your diagnosis without losing your integrity at the hands of your profession. The way the board handles the cases of people who suffer from a severe mental illness is really screwed up, that's the bottom line; it makes no logical sense. That board investigator basically admitted that probation is intended to be punishing- why the hell would anyone want to punish someone for being ligetimately sick? How is that okay?

It's an f-ing nightmare for her and for you, it really is. Being married to an addict is really hard. Being an addict is really depressing as is losing your identity. I don't think she should walk away from nursing though because finding gainful employment after losing your license is seriously difficult- you wouldn't think so but for a lot of nurses, losing your license means becoming a waitress or a grocery store clerk and I'm not knocking waitresses or grocery clerks. I'm just saying the pay is low and the humiliation and resentment that comes with going from a professional, esteemed career to a crappy job where you're treated like an idiot by managers who are less educated than you, it's severe. It's really hard to deal with, definitely increases depression and does nothing to help maintain sobriety. There's not much to fight as far as the board goes, basically do what they say so she can recover, regain control of her life and hopefully, eventually get back to work. But, honestly it might be a year before she's working as a nurse again... hopefully not though.

To clarify the post above, it didn't happen in a day, like she went crazy and I called the police and she lost her job. It was more like two months after she lost her job and had her meeting with the board before I called the police and asked them to take her to the hospital because she just kept getting worse and worse to the point where she was just completely out of touch with reality. She just kept getting worse and I know that the stress of the nursing board and losing her job compounded it- she was so stressed out, she couldn't get better. Fast forward to two years later and all any potential employer has to do is a google search and that's it, they know everything about her psychotic manic episode and what happened with her nursing license- so, she can't just say something like she wanted a career change or had a small personal problem even because, just a google search says it all. It actually says it worse than it was saying she practiced while impaired when she didn't. Basically, life long embarrassment and public humiliation.

Might as well say- she's actually my girlfriend. She went crazy, I didn't know how to handle it- was trying to get her to go to the hospital, she wouldn't. I was afraid she was going to hurt herself or me or the kids. So, I called the police and asked them to take her to the hospital, she fought them and they threw her in jail and cause the kids weren't mine they took them to foster care. When she got out with everything she was going through with the board and losing the kids and then she blamed me for calling the cops- saying it was my fault that she lost the kids. I was just trying to get her help. She disappeared, was living in her car. I couldn't find her and fell into a severe depression, I was fully suicidal. Losing her and the kids was the most painful thing I had ever gone through. That's when my drinking got out of control but, honestly I was prepared to end my life- and I'm not being dramatic, I really was. I drank so much the day before work, I honestly didn't realize I was intoxicated but I was living in a haze. That's when I lost my job because I showed up to work intoxicated, I really didn't feel drunk but, honestly, I didn't care. I figured I'd live off my retirement and kill myself when I ran out. She contacted me out of nowhere about a year after she'd disappeared, we've been together since and I decided then that of course I want to be sober and alive and take care of her and the kids, who I love and as my own, but... I screwed up, now I'm really scared if I don't get a job as a nurse again I don't know how I'll be able to support four people and I actually care again, I miss working. I want to be a nurse, I really don't know what I'm gonna do if I can't find work. She's not working right now cause her mom had a stroke and she was helping her recover- so, she's living with her parents in a different state but, her mom is doing really well now so as soon as I start working I can get us a place. I'm really worried I won't be able to do that. All of this started a little over two years ago now and I know, I know she has PTSD from what she went through with losing her career. It's just awful for her and her kids; she worked so hard as a single mom to get through school and in the end it was all just to be publicly shamed and humiliated.

Also, my friend that has bipolar disorder, the last job she had was working at a food packaging factory for minimum wage- she has two college degrees... that's the best she could get and obviously that's not enough to support herself and her two kids. With her wage at the food factory all she could afford was to rent a room for the three of them to share in a half way house... so, not everyone gets a second chance and considering her mental illness was something completely outside of her control it seems kinda ridiculous that she would even be put in a position where she's having to ask for another chance. If she had gone into any other field she would have had support and help from her employer and her board would have been empathetic not callous. Although, it wasn't just the nursing board or the nursing profession that discarded her and hung her out to dry or did her a disservice- it was also the police who arrested her and took her to jail instead of a hospital. Everyone knows the criminal justice system deals with mental illness horribly but, still her biggest source of pain comes from the nursing board and the nursing field- she still hasn't gotten over it. I mean, how do you get over something like that?

I think you're being supportive by being on here asking questions she's too depressed to ask so you can give her an idea of what to expect. It's not like losing an income is no big deal for most families- it's a huge freaking deal. Just ignore any negative comments, you have enough to deal with right now without having a stranger judge you and the way you're handling this for you and your wife. It's not like addiction only affects the addict, it's a blow to you too it's a blow to your entire family. And even though we all know addiction is a disease and we can empathize with her for having back pain it's not like you as her husband don't have a right to be upset by what she did or like you shouldn't be worried about the way this is going to affect your entire family. Of course it's stressful for you.

So, my friend who was a nurse had a bipolar manic episode- came out of nowhere, she didn't know she was bipolar, it was totally unexpected, unplanned, obviously no one chooses to be mentally ill. She didn't show up to work because she knew she wasn't thinking clearly. Was reported to the board, her license was suspended, she wasn't allowed to return to work. She spiraled deeper, lost her health insurance because she lost her job, ended up homeless. While she was manic she was arrested when the police were trying to take her to a hospital for resisting arrest. When she was clear she was put on probation for practicing nursing while impaired- she didn't practice nursing, she intentionally did not go to work. She had to do drug tests even though she was not a drug addict. Her case was published online and published in a magazine that is distributed to all nurses- so, everyone she has ever worked with, gone to school with, basically ever met now knows she is mentally ill (which to me is a huge HIPPA violation). When she got a job offer she was banned from taking the job by the state who said that her incident had occurred too recently (a year had passed, she was medically stable and had been working a non nursing job for months). She ended up having to surrender her license because she wouldn't be able to log the hours needed to keep it active. So, now (she's pretty young by the way) her entire life is ruined- she can't go back to school because she won't be able to get any kind of state license after having lost her nursing one. She can't get most jobs because of her arrest while she was sick. I have friends who are school psychologists who are speech therapists who have suffered with addiction and who have suffered with mental illness and they have boards to report to as well- their personal problems aren't publicly published for everyone to judge, they're not forced to jump through hoops determined by their boards and they don't lose their livelihoods. Addiction is a disease- I'm not proud of what I did, none of us are- and mental illness clearly is an illness- no other field of work destroys people the way the nursing field does for being human. I understand that we have people's lives in our hands although, not all nursing jobs are as intense as say ICU nursing- but, when people do recover or they are stable they should be able to restore their lives. That's not possible for everyone that ends up on probation- a lot of us don't get second chances. Not everyone is able to find a job on probation and they have to leave the field and finding gainful employment as a failed nurse- people ask questions, look into it and go with someone else. Cats is upset because she has a mental illness and is having to run around disclosing that to people and is forced into a recovery program for drug addicts, spanked is upset because he made a mistake outside of work and our personal lives should be our own, my friend I mentioned is perpetually upset because her life is ruined, and I get that I did something bad, but, I don't agree with the way we're publically shamed for it. As if living with addiction or a mental illness isn't a torture in and of itself- we have to be shamed in front of our entire community as well? That helps no one.

Sucks there aren't any SMART meetings near you, they're a lot better than AA.

No, I haven't read The Sober Truth but, I'm so worried about running out of money I'm even limiting my food intake... worried I'll end up homeless. What I really don't understand is how the $&@! it isn't a HIPPA violation to publish our drug or alcohol addiction (considered a disease) or mental illness in a public magazine?! How the heck is that even legal? It blows my mind that this is done by the nursing field. I really don't get it. How are boards above the law and why don't the protections of HIPPA apply to nurses? Like this public shaming is gonna help me get a handle on my severe depression. The public humiliation which makes it hard for me to leave my house for fear of running into anyone I know I think is the reason I have daily thoughts of suicide- that and fear of homelessness and not being able to support my family. Just such a nightmare.

I also want to tell you a little more about SMART meetings and how they differ from AA. Like I said, they're secular. The framework is based on Albert Ellis's Rational-Emotive Behavioral Therapy; so, it focuses on changing negative and unhealthy thoughts into positive alternatives and adapting good coping skills. Where AA tells people they are powerless over their addictions and they have to turn this over to a higher power, SMART teaches people that they do have power over their behaviors and shifts responsibility back to the person, which is empowering. SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training. It embraces psychology, psychotherapy and science where AA is like a cult with a spiritual foundation. SMART instructors receive training before they are allowed to facilitate a meeting or hold their own group meeting so there is a standard of quality control to the SMART meetings. SMART does not push a one size fits all approach to recovery, people map out their own path to recovery- there are no 12 steps and people aren't pushed to do things they're uncomfortable doing because they're told "it's an essential step." No one is labelled "powerless" in SMART, because like I said, it's about recognizing that it is up to you, recognizing that you are not powerless. There is cross-talk among participants in SMART meetings, so people are talking with one another instead of at one another- so, it's more therapeutic. I don't want to sound anti-AA, it's great that it works for some people but, I don't understand why it's the gold standard when science has proven that their approach is ineffective. Do you think it's because it keeps people running back to a rehab facility every time they relapse because they have committed such a horrible sin and are powerless to regain control on their own? Having people realize the power they do have over their addiction is not profitable... I wish I had some power over my career though, this is such a nightmare. No other field, none does this to people who are struggling with addiction or mental illness- every other field is so much more forgiving and understanding. I never would have imagined that a field that is based on caring for people who are sick or wounded just destroys anyone in the field who becomes sick or wounded. If we had done anything else with our lives none of this would be happening- we wouldn't have lost everything and been publicly shamed- a shame we have to carry for the rest of our lives. It's so terrible, if you leave nursing good luck working anywhere else and if you stay in nursing good luck getting a job- it's just... I have no words to describe my disgust.

Also, since you talked about wanting sustained recovery- I recommend you talk to your doctor about Naltrexone; it really does decrease cravings and if you relapse, you can't get drunk, which makes the relapse pretty pointless. Anyway, the movie explains it really well- but, from personal experience I can say, it's a great drug.

I know I already recommended the movie "One Little Pill" to you- I just wanted to add that you can watch it on Amazon. I think you'd really enjoy it. On the description of the movie it says, among other things, that "science has shown that abstinence not only doesn't take away the addiction but, also increases craving. So why has the modality dominated our thought since the 1930's? Why are profitable rehab facilities reluctant to change?" Sounds like everything you're bringing up... Let me know what you think when you've seen it.

They'll revoke her license if she doesn't respond...

I read that no AA is just as effective as AA. In other words, it's ********. I personally think that the 100% abstinence kinda sets addicts up to fail. You relapse then hate yourself and that guilt and shame just sets you up to pick it up again and again. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I just think there are much better roads to recovery outside of AA- have you tried SMART meetings? They aren't faith based, for atheist AA can be pretty difficult to stomach. If you have a drinking problem you should try Naltrexone, it really helps. There's this really good documentary about Naltrexone called "One Little Pill" it's really good; about the Sinclair Method. I understand the purpose of the monitoring program, but in the long run- after monitoring ends- what would keep someone from returning to their addiction if they had to spend years begrudgingly participating in treatment modalities that they do not believe in? That's why I go to SMART meetings and utilize Naltrexone, it works for me with or without BON monitoring.

From my experience they could care less if you end up homeless... You do what they say or your license is gone. They expect you to find a way to pay to jump through their hoops. Basically, from my experience- what SpankedinPittsburgh said is 100% true. After the treatment, when they start the monitoring, you have to call in everyday, for years, to a random drug testing site. You could be asked to test twice in a week, six times a month- whatever, totally random for $40 a test. I don't know how most people can afford that without having a job. It's pretty awful.

Hi, just looking for other nurses in Oregon that are currently in recovery; currently in the Portland area myself. Trying to build a good support system. Thanks

Unfortunately, it will also be very difficult for you to get a job in nursing with a criminal record and with two misdemeanors it will be a while till you can get them expunged.

I highly doubt she would go to jail for this, I've personally never heard of it; I wouldn't worry too much about jail time unless she was diverting then dealing the drugs or something of that nature. The board will likely suspend her license and she will probably have to do inpatient treatment which, without insurance can be as much as 60k. Lawyers fees quickly become astronomical because they milk you and bill you for every phone call, every email, every letter and it generally costs around 5k to retain an attorney; our lawyer ended up costing about 15k when it was all said and done and to be honest, I don't think he helped at all; I think the outcome would have been the same with or without an attorney. The board in Oregon suspended my license then had me be evaluated by a counselor and I had to follow his recommendations before my suspension would be lifted. After lifting my suspension I was placed on probation which restricts where I can work and how many hours, what shifts, etc. From what I've read on these posts finding a job while on probation can be very difficult and a lot of nurses end up having to walk away from their license due to not being able to find work. A lot on the other hand are able to successfully find work. I don't really know what to tell you, I have no words of encouragement because I am currently struggling with feelings of hopelessness myself. Good luck- I don't think you have to worry about jail time though.