Jason-ACNP

Wow... I've only enough time to briefly skim these posts, but there appears to be many "heart-felt" responses Anyway, I wanted apologize for an insensitive statement that I had written. I remembered today that I had thoughtlessly written "a trained monkey" could perform some of the skills that nurses". Although such a statement is clearly unfounded, I would like to point out that I did not mean to suggest that LPNs are analogous to "trained monkeys". That was an asinine comment on my part. I have always been the first to admit that the psychomotor skills of LPNs are stellar in comparison to myself. Don't worry. I'll read all of the responses later. I'm sure some good points were brought out. Again, my apologies for the comment :)

Wow... I've only enough time to briefly skim these posts, but there appears to be many "heart-felt" responses Anyway, I wanted apologize for an insensitive statement that I had written. I remembered today that I had thoughtlessly written "a trained monkey" could perform some of the skills that nurses". Although such a statement is clearly unfounded, I would like to point out that I did not mean to suggest that LPNs are analogous to "trained monkeys". That was an asinine comment on my part. I have always been the first to admit that the psychomotor skills of LPNs are stellar in comparison to myself. Don't worry. I'll read all of the responses later. I'm sure some good points were brought out. Again, my apologies for the comment :)

Okay, look. I have not the time, the will, nor the desire to argue Yet, I find hilarious the number of LPNs who THINK they have what it takes to be an RN. Everyone wants to be considered a professional, BUT VERY FEW are willing to put forth the effort to reach that level. There are DISTINCT DIFFEERNCES in the education of an LPN vs. an ADN. And the BSN? The differences in education are incomparable. Okay, okay…..so you are better at making beds, inserting foleys, or other “technical” duties. So is a highly trained monkey. But can you think critically? Let me answer that for you….NO. 90% of LPNs don’t know the meaning of critical thinking, much less have the ability to apply it. I think that it is safe to say that 99.9% of LPNs CANNOT take a critical situation and apply knowledge learned from physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology etc. and apply it to that situation. It’s possible to memorize a ton of information, but NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT. That is precisely the reason why your scope of practice is limited, as well as why advanced practice nursing requires the BSN as a prerequisite. Yet, as always, nursing continues to seek the least common denominator – that which is easiest. What is the easiest and fastest way I can obtain my AND? That is no different than me stating, “How many classes can I skip in medical school? After all, I have eight years of full-time college education (and every prerequisite for medical school). I hold a BSN (4.0 G.P.A.) as well as a Masc. (3.95 G.P.A), in conjunction to years of VALUBLE experience. Don’t forget!!! I already have prescriptive privileges, and I’ve tutored many of your medical students over the past two years in physical assessment skills! That should count for something!!!!! Pu-leeeaassseeee. Do you think they give a damn? Of course not. It is called S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. Get it? One more time… S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. By all means…pursue an AND (or whatever) in the fast track, but please…PLEASE – don’t whine and moan because you aren’t deemed a professional. Furthermore, the longstanding conviction that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing will never be adhered to. Thus, I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity. There clearly needs to be unity within this field. But make no mistake. While unity is imperative for nursing to progress, there is a reason for the hierarchy. All nurses ARE NOT the same. As always, this is not meant to be construed as insensitive or rude. However, the issue has apparently become cloudy, and the need for clarification is quite evident. I am done with this issue. Take care. :)

Ladies, ladies.... go easy here :) I agree that LPNs should not take certain courses that teach skills they have mastered as an LPN (i.e. making beds, inserting foley caths, giving injections, etc). However, I also feel that they should NOT spend any less time in the ADN program than what the current standards call for. While a LPNs experiences will enhance their education, these experiences should not be regarded as a ticket to an "easier" or "faster" track. Why? One word: STANDARDS. Many have said (including myself) that nursing is viewed as a vocational job (vs. a professional career), because the majority of RNs in this country do not hold the BSN degree. Unfortunate? Of course. Yet, education is the standard by which nurses are measured. The concept of the “slippery slope” is introduced when standards are manipulated. If we stray from the principles of the RN educational track, where to we stop? It opens the gate for more and more manipulation. Furthermore, there are significant differences in the education of the LPN and the RN that gives support to the LPNs adhering to a two- year track. The scope of practice of the RN is considerably wider than the LPN (i.e. ER, critical care). Thus, the LPN could take alternative courses that would further enhance their career. It would certainly make them a more viable candidate for a coveted position (vs. a new-grad RN). There is no question that some LPNs outperform some RNs every day of the week. Furthermore, I value the contributions that LPNs make. But again, education is the standard by which nurses are measured. When the LPN graduates from the RN program, she/he can say with confidence, “I faced the trials and tribulations of nursing school (including the sacrificed of time), instead of saying, “I fast tracked my way through school”. Anything less than a solid, two-year curriculum (minimum) further undermines the legitimacy of a career whose image has been tarnished greatly.

I only know of one NP that makes slightly less than $60,000. Every NP I've ever worked with started at least at $65,000 plus productivity bonuses, but many make quite a bit more. The highest starting salary (for a new graduate) last year was $100,000. Yet, the highest paid salaries in 2000 (according to a report on NP salaries submitted by an NP web site), the fifth percentile made $220,000 in 2000. Again, that is the fifth percentile. The average nationwide is about $65,000. As for my dream job, I've already obtained it. A job with autonomy, respect, prescriptive authority, great patients, great physicians, and wonderful working hours. No stress. No pain. No labor. I'm sipping a beer every evening by 5:15 on my deck, overlooking the lake. All benefits paid, (including malpractice), 4 weeks vacation, 7 paid holidays, and a week to attend a conference at any location of my choice (fully paid). I really like the housekeeper idea. I think that is feasible My contract is soon to expire. I'll be making that one of the stipulations.

Again, thank you Rick. You took the words right out of my fingers. I have yet to reply to a negative post such as the one initiated here, but I was amazed at the number of responses in such a short time-frame. The following is not meant to be construed as offensive, mean-spirited, or whatever negative connotation may be applied. First of all, this was post was initiated by a nursing student. The point is, while SOME nursing students (in this country) are given a small taste of what nursing is REALLY like, they are protected by a blanket of security through a small number of assignments and supervised actions. Thus, I know of no nursing student who could speak intelligently (from experience) of what it is truly like to be a RN or LPN for a number of years. (Although there are many student nurse techs and CNAs who do have a much better idea than those who have never worked in a hospital before). Secondly, this post was initiated by a nursing student WHO HAS NEVER WORKED IN THE U.S. Thus, she hasn't the slightest clue about what people are "bitching" about. As my English friend (who has been an RN for 30+ years) told me a couple of years ago, nursing in the US is more than retrieving "a cup of hot tea and a warm wash cloth for the patient every morning". (Again, that is not meant to be offensive. I'm not pretending to know [or even care] what nursing is like in England). The point is this: "Let it go". Of course you have every right to respond to every post in any way you desire, but why would dignify ignorance with a response? Is it not a waste of your time and energy? Let it die...let it die before it has a chance to take on a life of it's own

Robin, I see that you are from Ft. Smith, so I thought I would respond. To begin, I appreciate your tenacity to pursue nursing as a career. I want to say that you were absolutely right when you wrote, "There are good things and bad things in every profession". I would also like to say that it is a real shame and dissapointment when nurses feel that they aren't able to promote their career to other prospective nurses. With that being said, I must say that I can relate to almost every comment that each nurse has placed on this bulletin board. I've done numerous jobs, from the most laborious construction jobs to the infinite, sweat filled days of the Marine Corps. Nothing I have ever done compares to the mental and physical challenges that nursing provides (including the Marines). Unfortunately, I don't mean this in a positive sense. While I love my job as an acute care nurse practitioner, I could never return to mainstream nursing as an RN. I feel this way despite the fact that after a year of experince, an RN can make a considerable amount of money as an agency nurse. My friend in Portland wrote me today to tell me that agency RNs in that area are being paid $95/hr (no kidding). Yet, he told me that he has had enough. The $1,140 per 12/hr shift isn't worth it anymore. That is a powerful statement considering he too has worked many laborious jobs for minimal wage. Yet, he states that nothing compares to the mental strain of nursing (for him). To give you a better idea, you might want to refer to my post, "Send my girl down here now", which may give you a very slight taste of what you may face many times a day as an RN. On the other hand, let me tell you the positives of nursing. The 3 day/week shifts are good (and don't let them talk you into more than that if you don't want to work them). Secondly, nursing has a vast selection of careers to choose from. Critical care, ER, OB-GYN, NICU, PICU, pediatrics, psych, medical-surigcal, OR, oncology, case managment, and on and on. I'm sure you can find something to suit you. Thirdly, the money is good once you start traveling or work agency. I traveled for awhile before returning to school, but I never did work a strike. I can't do that to my colleagues who have a damn good reason to strike. But remember, the money issue eventually becomes irrelevant, regardless of your financial status. I remember what it was like to scrape by on minimum wage (at $3.36/hr) If I may, let me give you some advice. Med-Surgical nurses, cardiac step-down nurses(or adult based floor nurses in general)are the heart of nursing and comprise some of the best nurses I've ever had the pleasure of working with. It takes a highly skilled, highly organized nurse to work the floors. With that being said, I would avoid working the floor at all costs. I have the highest respect for these nurses, but it kills me to see them receive the abuse that they do (I'm talking about the more than 20+ hospitals I've worked in as a traveler..not just one or two). At the same time, they do need reinforements to help lighten their burden. Another suggestion would be to pursue a BSN. While diploma nurses and ADNs receive excellent training, you have the opportunity to pursue an advanced degree if you choose to. It it is feasible for you, I know that UAMS has a satellite program at Fort Smith through telecommunications. Diplomas and ADNs who have pursued their BSN at a later date regret that they had not received their BSN initially. It is much harder going the other route. Anyway, I would be interested in learning of your perception of nursing once you begin your education, and particuarly once you graduate and gain some experience in whatever you choose. Good luck.

although you are moving to Florida, you may want to consider looking at a travel assignment in the area you will be working. It usually pays much more than base pay, plus you get insurance benefits and a stipend for living (if you don't take their housing). Additionally, you can see whehter or not if the hospital is right for you (during a 13 week assignment). I took an assignment at the Miami Heart Institute from early Januray 99 to April 99. It paid $23/hr, plus a condo in South Beach (on the beach!) Very nice!!! Its something you may want to consider.