Direct-entry MSN programs

I'm glad you found a good CC program. You are from MA, right? I did some of my pre reqs at Mass Bay, which does not have a very selective process (it's basically an unweighted waitlist) and their attrition rate once accepted to the program is horrendous. My A&P prof from there also teaches at Bunker Hill and says they have the same problem with people flunking or dropping out. I'm all for the idea of community colleges and giving access to higher ed to a broader section of the community. But with nursing, I just don't think these programs are doing students any favors by accepting ones who will not be able to succeed in it. A selective process which gives weight to proven predictors of academic success is ultimately, I belive fairer to all involved.

Jess (I'll get off my soapbox now... :) )

I was thinking about it more last night, and I think I overgeneralized about CCs. I'm sure there are many great CC programs, with low attrition and high NCLEX pass rates. I'm just a little bitter that none of them are within driving distance of me!! :chuckle I applied to Mass Bay at the same time as my direct entry apps, and was told I needed to take College Writing (hello, I was an English major) and College Math (I had taken statistics as a pre req and Business Math in college) before I could be placed on the waitlist. They said in the letter they would be happy to enroll me in those classes as an "undeclared major" in the fall. WTH? It's like they didn't even bother to read my transcripts. And anyone who jumps through their little hoops can get a place on the waitlist. To me, that's just not fair.

I do recognize that not all CCs are created equal when it comes to nursing programs. There are really varied accounts even on these boards of great CC programs vs. beurocratic, wait-list driven ones.

Fotograph- I'm glad you found a great program near enough to where you live. Your classmates sound amazing and I'm sure you will have a great experience there!

-Jess

Hi all

Thanks so much for your input! Yah, I'm reconsidering applying to UCSF - they actually were the only school that rejected me when I applied for phd programs. My roomie is an MD and did one of her residencies there and knows a lot of people in the program, so she's been strongly encouraging me to try there, but I'm not sure I'd have much of a chance. Plus, they require 4 recs and the application deadline is early!

I have a question about pre-reqs: how carefully do they check them? I took a grad class called "Micro 230", but it was a critical reading/discussion class of primary literature, not your typical swab-bacteria-and-watch-it-grow class. I could take one this spring, I suppose, but it seems so repetitive given that I've been WORKING with microorganisms full-time for five years!!

I'm already signed up for A+P 1 this fall, and will do AP2 in the spring. I was going to take stats in the spring, but if I need to take nutrition AND stats AND development - how on earth am I going to fit all those in for a summer start? Or is it ok to take them in the summer? 2 classes is the most I can possibly handle at a time while still working full-time in the lab and hospital volunteering!

Do they ever waive pre-reqs for candidates that have a lot of science coursework, even if it doesn't fit perfectly? Could I take a proficiency test in nutrtion or something?

Anyhow, thanks for the votes of confidence. I really appreciate that. :-)

janony

Hi Janony,

They do check to see if you have a lab portion of Micro, so you probably need to take another Micro class. I suppose you could argue for a waiver, but most places are "by the book" and look for class itself.

I took Dev Psych online and it was an "easy" class. Here's the link from Foothill College where I took PSYCH 40 HUMAN DEVELOPMENT:

http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schdetail2.php?u=8691&div=Psychology

You can take it this fall, winter or spring. They do require some papers. The lectures are all on line and they do have an online forum that you need to participate in. I found it a very enjoyable class. It's only 10 weeks at 4 quarter credits (the quarter system) and should count for all your schools.

The accelerated programs usually start in early June, so you probably want to take all your pre-reqs before then. Check the schools you are interested in. If you go the traditional route (a 2 year BS program), they start in the fall. It depends on the program and the school.

There are on line nutrition classes, but I am not familiar with exact classes. I took a hybrid course where part of it was on line and part lecture one day a week. I don't know where you live, but you could check out nutrition classes at your local community college.

Here's a thought: you can challenge the classes by taking an exam. Excelsior College has challenge exams for Micro, nutrition, dev psych and stats that you could take. I know Hopkins does accept the nutrition exam from them. Here's a quick link for challenge exams from Excelsior:

https://www.excelsior.edu/portal/page?_pageid=57,194513&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&DEPTS=EXAMS&AREA=A%26S&SORT=0

Again, you should check the schools that you are applying to and see if they will accept these challenge exams. I ended up taking 2 classes in the evening for 6 quarters while working fulltime and volunteering. It was tough, but doable. I think with your background you should be able to waive micro with the challenge exam. If you read up about nutrition, you could easily pass the challenge exam too. Good luck!

Smile123

Hi Jess!

Wondering if I should add BC to my list of schools. How did you decide to go there? Where else did you consider? Do you have any idea how competitive it is to get in?

NO OFFENSE INTENDED TO YOU AT ALL, but-

I kinda have a philisophical problem with BC... last year the students/faculty tried to get sexual orientation added to the non-discrimination policy but the administration rejected it. Grrr. I'm gay (and Jewish, but the Jesuit affilition doesn't bother me so much) and am not sure I'd want to be at a place that condones discrimination based on sexual orientation.

But I've heard it's a great program and I like Boston and it would make life easier to not have to move, so maybe I should get off my high horse and apply there as well!

janony

So, BC... it wasn't my top choice, even though it is the highest ranked school in the Boston area (according to US News rankings- though I think Simmons has a far better rep locally). I chose BC because it is the shortest, most compressed schedule- and for me with two kids and the cost of childcare higher than tuition, that made it the cheapest option for me. They also have more money to give- so I ended up with a non-need based grant that takes care of a little over 1/3 of my tuition.

I really, really liked MGH when I visited there- but it would have cost well over 100K with tuition and childcare, and they just categorically don't give grants, so going there became a non-option. My only hesitation about MGH was my specialty- Women's Health. I met the director of my specialty at an info session, and she also works at the nurse-run clinic at Planned Parenthood- and precepts students there. Though I am pro-choice, I think I would have had some ideological problems with the approach to women's health at MGH.

I went to a Catholic school for undergrad and ran into the same kinds of resistance to acknowledging and including gay students through formal organizations, mission statements, etc. My experience was that the issue was not with the faculty or students- who were all pretty tolerant and inclusive, but with the really old priests who were higher up in the administration. It totally doesn't surprise me that BC wouldn't add sexual orientation to the non-discrimination policy- but I think it comes down to the worldview of Catholic priests that a human person is not defined by their sexuality. I think they honestly believe this- and not to be glib- but I think it is an easy position to take when you have committed to live a celebate, religious life. The cloistered, insular, out-of-touch-with-how-people-really-live attitudes of many Catholic religious was one of the many reasons I left the church. Don't get me started on that though....

I think you would most likely feel comfortable at BC- my impression of the school of nursing is that it is a pretty pragmatic, non-judgmental lot. I would definitely talk to some students too- and kind of get the low-down from people actually there. I can also PM you once I have a better idea in the fall about what the program is like and what the climate is like there.

HTH!

Jess

Hi Jess!

Wondering if I should add BC to my list of schools. How did you decide to go there? Where else did you consider? Do you have any idea how competitive it is to get in?

But I've heard it's a great program and I like Boston and it would make life easier to not have to move, so maybe I should get off my high horse and apply there as well!

janony

Hi Janony,

BC is a great school. It offers the masters entry program in only 21 months; that makes it cheaper than some other programs since it's not as long.

Here's the link:

http://www.bc.edu/schools/son/graduate/masters/masters-entry

But you do have to take Organic Chem with a lab as a pre-req; have you taken it? Here's the link for the BC pre-reqs:

http://www.bc.edu/schools/son/graduate/admission/

Evidence of the Following Courses (within 5 years - waivers considered):

Anatomy & Physiology I and II w/Lab

If taught separately, then, one semester of Anatomy and one semester of Physiology

Life Science or Organic Chemistry w/Lab

GENERAL CHEMISTRY WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED

Microbiology w/Lab

Two (2) Social Sciences (Sociology, Psychology, Anthropology, Economics, Political Science)

One from each discipline or two from the same discipline will be accepted

Introductory or higher level Statistics course

It is competitive, but your profile is extremely competitive. I say, go for it and give yourself the option to choose later. Plus, since you say you live in the Boston area, you won't have to move like some of us! Of course, if you want a change of scenery, moving can be a great adventure!

Smile123

wow, thanks for all the BC info. I think you are probably right that the discrimination stuff is higher up in the organization and that it wouldn't make a practical difference.

Pre-reqs wise, it's also the easiest - I have 3 semesters of organic (2 with lab), so no problem there. :)

Thanks again - and please keep me updated once you start school!

janony

Hi, again,

DePaul Master's Entry to Nursing has 102 Cr hrs.

UMd about 63, University of Va about 71.

Hopkins cann't be compared really because theirs

is A-BSN. But the cost for all these programs are

pretty much similar, assuming UMd as a non-in-state.

Anybody knows about rules of making these new

MS Entry program? Why does DePaul has so many

credit hours? UMd combines 63 with 59 of pre-req

and makes the final 122 graduate Cr Hr in the course list

which was mailed to me. (they don't update their

website, so there's no info on this CNL, clinical nurse

leader, program). That doesn't make sense to me

at all.

Anybody knows about UVa Nursing Program?

Their website and emails so far have been very

positive.

Thanks.

p.s. I've been admitted to Hopkins before, which I didn't go

because of the cost, housing, and the research orientation.

Just applied to DePaul, and will apply to UVa soon.

UMd is on the shelf until the mystery is resolved.

Lurking over George Mason A-BSN too, but somewhere

allnurses.com had bad reviews about them, backstabbing

classmates over stressful curriculum, etc...

Amitai.

Hi, again,

I regret the spelling errors in my previous post.

Amitai.

Yes I am in MA on the SOuthshore. I agree with your point about open admission. I was accepted to other programs, and it really came down to cost to obtain the RN. WHile I aspire to APN, I am not sure of which specialty. I just couldnt' bring myself to spend 10 times the amount in tuition while I was still undecided. Still, I don't think I would have chosen my program if it was not selective and with good NClex pass rates and low attrition. I don"t want warning lights going off when I go to apply for jobs. I know it was not always this competitive. It has only been the last few years that they have had this many applications. Even so, they have had a very good reputation in any event.

I do want to hear how BC is. I am interested in that program as well as Northeastern for my MSN.

Kathi

I'm glad you found a good CC program. You are from MA, right? I did some of my pre reqs at Mass Bay, which does not have a very selective process (it's basically an unweighted waitlist) and their attrition rate once accepted to the program is horrendous. My A&P prof from there also teaches at Bunker Hill and says they have the same problem with people flunking or dropping out. I'm all for the idea of community colleges and giving access to higher ed to a broader section of the community. But with nursing, I just don't think these programs are doing students any favors by accepting ones who will not be able to succeed in it. A selective process which gives weight to proven predictors of academic success is ultimately, I belive fairer to all involved.

Jess (I'll get off my soapbox now... :) )

Hi, again,

DePaul Master's Entry to Nursing has 102 Cr hrs.

UMd about 63, University of Va about 71.

Hopkins cann't be compared really because theirs

is A-BSN. But the cost for all these programs are

pretty much similar, assuming UMd as a non-in-state.

Anybody knows about rules of making these new

MS Entry program? Why does DePaul has so many

credit hours? UMd combines 63 with 59 of pre-req

and makes the final 122 graduate Cr Hr in the course list

which was mailed to me. (they don't update their

website, so there's no info on this CNL, clinical nurse

leader, program). That doesn't make sense to me

at all.

Anybody knows about UVa Nursing Program?

Their website and emails so far have been very

positive.

Thanks.

p.s. I've been admitted to Hopkins before, which I didn't go

because of the cost, housing, and the research orientation.

Just applied to DePaul, and will apply to UVa soon.

UMd is on the shelf until the mystery is resolved.

Lurking over George Mason A-BSN too, but somewhere

allnurses.com had bad reviews about them, backstabbing

classmates over stressful curriculum, etc...

Amitai.

I don't know anything specific about the programs you mention- but the three I applied to all had wildly different credit hour requirements for the same MSN degree. I think it depends partially on how many clinical hours are in each program. Of the three I applied to one had almost *twice* the number of clinical hours than the one I ultimately decided to attend. So, that's something to delve into when researching programs- also the breakdown of pre RN vs advanced practice clinicals. Also, look into whether there is a thesis required. That may make a small difference in credit hours as well.

Good luck and happy researching!

-Jess

Yes I am in MA on the SOuthshore. I agree with your point about open admission. I was accepted to other programs, and it really came down to cost to obtain the RN. WHile I aspire to APN, I am not sure of which specialty. I just couldnt' bring myself to spend 10 times the amount in tuition while I was still undecided. Still, I don't think I would have chosen my program if it was not selective and with good NClex pass rates and low attrition. I don"t want warning lights going off when I go to apply for jobs. I know it was not always this competitive. It has only been the last few years that they have had this many applications. Even so, they have had a very good reputation in any event.

I do want to hear how BC is. I am interested in that program as well as Northeastern for my MSN.

Kathi

I grew up on the so shore in Hanover! That's great about your program and I think that is totally the way to go if you are undecided as to advanced practice specialty. I wish I had the option of a cc program for RN and then bridge to MSN after a few years as a nurse. It would be so much cheaper that way for me- but I'm just not willing to re-take classes I took in undergrad and sit on a waitlist for 2 yrs, you know? Where will you have your clinicals, do you know yet?

-Jess

Although I am not positive where I will end up, I do know they use South Shore Hospital, Brockton Hospital and Mt. Sinai. I hope most of my assignments end up at SSH. I plan on working as a PCT in a Boston hospital in the summer between years one and two, and have some ins at BMC, NEMC and B & W. The only thing I don't like about my program is the peds rotation. It is in Brockton schools, not at a hospital. I may spend my summer on a peds floor.

We go to the Y in Hanover everyday. Kids are in Camp Gordon Clark and I trudge away on the eliptical machines and at the nautilus machines trying to get into fighting shape for clinicals.

Do keep posting. I love reading about your progress. Sorry the Micro was such a bear. I did it last spring along with organic chem. I loved the class, but I could not get any S. epidermidis to grow for the life of me. We swim too much to get a good swab. And all those crazy experiments required it! UGH.

Kathi

I grew up on the so shore in Hanover! That's great about your program and I think that is totally the way to go if you are undecided as to advanced practice specialty. I wish I had the option of a cc program for RN and then bridge to MSN after a few years as a nurse. It would be so much cheaper that way for me- but I'm just not willing to re-take classes I took in undergrad and sit on a waitlist for 2 yrs, you know? Where will you have your clinicals, do you know yet?

-Jess

wildly different credit hour requirements for the same MSN degree. ... advanced practice clinicals.

Thanks, Jess.

I did a bit more research:

http://www.nursezone.com/job/MedicalNewsAlerts.asp?articleID=13695

It seems like American Association of Colleges of Nursing really

pushed nursing programs to adopt this new program and

some appears to have responded well, and some not.

CNL is a new role AACN would like to create to meet

the demand of current health care system.

(meaning, more and more higher degrees in

other specialties, e.g., DOT, DPT, (occup. and physic. therapy)

DePaul has an optional CNL practicum 'after'

graduation. DePaul focuses whaaayyy more

on pathophysiology than others. (go figure)

UVa has devoted more on CNL courses in

the second year. UMd seems to have copied its

second BS program more or less, not much CNL stuff.

So these new Entry MSN programs are really different

from the usual A-BSN plus another specialty MSN, like Hopkins.

It's not the same as the research-focused curriculum

either, such as Hopkins. BC's curriculum

seems to be the simplest of all, RN first, then whatever.

It might be that some school-related hospitals are not ready

to create these CNL positions yet (pressure from

the old-timers, resistance to change, etc), which could

explain the difficulty of preparing the new CNL students.

Anyway, I think it would be a challenging role to get into.

It's becoming clearer to me now, difference between schools

and stuff. I really like UVa. They send students to

'migrating camps!' ha ha ha

Amitai.